JamieElenbaas

That's pretty close to my plan. Black bibs, white long sleeve base layer and black sleeveless jersey. I will be as anonymous as can be.

I feel like kind of a tool. For about the last five months, I've been doing the weekly 'open' training rides with a team in the area and was on the fence about joining and racing this year. Kind on a whim I decided to register and race this weekend, so I'll be competing against guys I train with every weekend. Oh well, I'm cat 5, so I don't think anyone will be too concerned. At this point I regret that I won't be wearing team colors.

Hermes

You can make a deal to support them at the starting line. Nohing in the rules prohibits this.

Allegheny Jet

As promised in my earlier post here are two graphs showing nearly the same average wattage for about the same duration of an hour and 15 minutes. Yellow represents watts, red is heart rate and blue is speed. I have isolated the workout and race from the warmup and cool down from both efforts. The first graph represents a steady Z3 effort while on the rollers and shows fairly constant effort, HR and speed with a few little bumps when I got OTS to relieve the legs and butt. The 2nd graph shows last nights race and has the same average watts as the effort on the rollers. It is easy to see the frequent intense efforts and coasting done over the flat, 6 turn, 2 mile circuit course. A lot of guys can do the first graph's Z3 type of work on a bicycle, being able to hit the hard efforts then recover enough to do it again and again is what the specialized training for racing accomplishes.

AzTallRider

Great examples of the contrast A'Jet, and applicable to my workout this morning:

Lactate Intervals. 2 sets of 4x40' seconds at CP1, with 20 second rest intervals. Coach estimated my CP1 (1 minute critical power) at 430w. I was able to better that a bit, even in the final rep. It's great when a work out goes as planned, and I love that hard worked feeling in the legs, knowing I'm building strength. Tomorrow is a rest day.

Saturday I'll go to a fast group ride to see how long I hang with the big dogs. I'm deciding between two different fast groups, as I kind of rotate through the fast club rides to find where I fit in. Sadly, all three groups I like are 30-50 minute drives away. I'm beginning to think I can live with that, since I want a team that:

A. is large enough to have several people at most races
B. is Active
C. acts like a team (as opposed to just wearing the same jersey)
D. understands how to use networking tools to facilitate communication (Facebook, Twitter, Etc.)
E. is a good fit for me, now and in the future
F. wins races

Am I missing anything important? Oh yeah:

G. The jersey color compliments both my bike and my skin tone.

Allegheny Jet

Or, the kit represents your favorite NFL team like my Stiller's. Our team's new black- "away kits" arrive this week!

cyclinfool

Did three 12 minute sprints at sub LT with 6 minute rests this morning. The course has a hill that falls in the middle of interval two and three, I think I was closer to Z5 by the top. Man that was a hard workout. I was tired all day. What I am a little concerned about though is that during the rests my HR did not do down a lot. I was running between 170 and 175 in the sprints, 185 to 190 on the hills and only dropped to 140 on the rests.
Granted I was pretty tired because I was in an all day meeting yesterday and then drove 4 1/2 hours to get home and did not get to bed until 10PM, didn't sleep well and was up at 5AM and riding at 6AM.

Hermes

C'Fool, As a suggestion, a 12 minute interval is not a sprint. A sprint is a z7 neuromuscular maximum effort that lasts 10 to 30 seconds. Heart rate for a sprint is not relevant. My suggestion for improving hill climbing or training for a hill climb race is to do 10 minute + climbing intervals at z4 with 5 minutes rest between intervals. If you are up to it, do 20 minute intervals with 5 to 10 minutes rest.

When I trained with the Russians they were very picky about the heart rate drop. They wanted the HR to return below 120 within 2 minutes. If it did not, they reduced the intensity. Based on the limited info about your HR, it seems like you are overcooking the intervals. You will not get better any faster by doing workouts from which you cannot recover.

Hermes

Last night I did a 1 1/2 hour endurance ride and did a couple of z3/z4 climbing intervals. I rode 21 miles with 1950 feet of climbing.

cyclinfool

Very possibly I am over doing the intervals - indeed these are not sprints, just was loose with the lingo. I have not been using a HRM this season until today so I cannot say if this behavior was the same in earlier sessions. I do feel as I was not getting adequate recovery today. Two things might have been wrong, one being as i stated, I started from a depleted level, the other being I had two large cups of coffee before heading out. The combo could have just kept my HR high, We will see as I get more data on other rides.

A 20 minute interval at the level we are riding now would be hard for me, I am really ready for the interval to be over at 10 minutes and I am willing my self through the last 2. I can stay with my riding partner on the first interval, he is about 25 yards ahead on the second and on the third he is a good 100 yards ahead. We are alternating days of intervals lasting 10 and 12 minutes, my partner has set the regime and I am not sure if we will expand the interval time. We both know this is not the ideal routine for an uphill race but it is what we have.

Next week I am going to do a ride with a professional trainer, however I am skeptical because she told me she has not been working with cyclists this year, she has been working with runners. I'll give it a go and see if I sign up for more sessions.

Thanks for the advice. The biggest thing that will help me for this race is to loose 10 lbs.

Allegheny Jet

CF, Are you riding while recovering from your intervals? When I do intervals I ride in the little gear at a very easy pace and do recover to a Z2 HR within 2 minutes. If you are still riding up the hill during the recovery that may be one reason the HR is sustained. You might also need some active recovery rides in your schedule.

I agree with Hermes that your intervals for hill climbing should be of longer duration and shorter duration. The longer duration intervals would be at a pace that is more in line with your race pace or a little harder and concentration on climbing form and some OTS riding. The shorter intervals should 4 - 6 minutes and be harder than race pace but not a killer pace in that you could squeeze out a minute or so before you lockup. You may want to incorporate some Z3 work to the workload on a different training day. My workout last evening was a 30 minute WU, then 3 x 30 minute Z3 intervals, with no recovery between them, in which the first was at low Z3, then mid-Z3, then high-Z3 followed with a easy 30 min cool down. I ended up riding 49 miles total for the workout. On Tuesday I did a training race which gave me plenty of high end work. Tonight's ride was a 1.5 hr Z2 ride for active recovery that also allows me to ride for fun and with a smile.

I think for a hill climb race one needs to focus on building muscular endurance (Z3), VO2 max ( shorter intervals) and climbing technique (race pace with form) You don't need to train the sprinting and bridging effort muscles that us roadies need to possess.

cyclinfool

Thanks AJ, I agree that for the race we are planning to participate in we need long endurance runs. We have been doing these on the weekend. Last weekend it was hill repeats on a hill that rises 1200' over 3 miles, I did 3 repeats, my partner did 4. As you stated, I focused on pedal technique, breathing and attitude. Our weekday AM training ride is fixed on distance, course and time. We both have jobs. We do get two short hills on our AM ride which we tend to use to do at max effort.

This weekend we are not sure what the routine will be, rain is in the forecast. We were hoping for a cycle on Mount Greylock.

BTW - when I did the race last year I did wear an HRM, my goal was to use it to keep my HR down and not blow up. Right away my HR hit 185 and stayed there for the first 80 minutes, it was only in the last 20 that is dropped somewhat as I recall. It was an intense effort. My goal this year is to knock 15 minutes off my time.

Hermes

I did a track workout this morning with a very long warmup 50 laps and then motor games. It was the same as last Friday with two teams and the motor setting a 25 mph pace. The teams took turns behind the motor handing off about every 2nd lap. The supervisor then did some bike control exercises designed to learn control of the fixed gear bike via leg modulation. This is for managing changes in speed in mass start races and team pursuit when there is no room to maneuver and one has to slow and accelerate.

Hermes

She who must be obeyed waiting for others to show up at the track. Obviously, I had my orders issued in the morning and was carrying out the mission.

Allegheny Jet

For just a few more $ you could have sprung for a folding chair with a leg rest. However, the bike seems to be working well.

cyclinfool

This weekend calls for mostly rain but this AM the radar said it was west of us and slowly moving east. Cool, damp and low winds here. Today was a perfect day for training on Greylock, so I headed an hour east over the Berkshires to the south entrance. This is a 2400' climb over 9.5 miles. Not Whiteface but would give me a good endurance run. The goal was to see if I could stay around a HR of 165 - what should be mid to upper Z4 for me. For 75 minutes I stayed in range, on a few very short ticks got into low Z5 and a few times at the bottom of Z4. For the most part I stayed in my 30/23, on a few of the switchbacks I dropped into the 30/25 and when it flattened a bit I choose gearing that kept my HR in zone and cadence comfortable. Pedal strokes were consistent and I think good form (got the full circle), breathing even and steady, back was straight.

At that level of exertion the climb seamed easy and I felt I could go another 20 to 30 minutes once I hit the top. I have climbed Greylock several times over the past 3 years and this was the first time it seemed easy, so I guess that is progress. If I have time before Whiteface I will try to get over there and do it from the North, the grade is a little more challenging because it rises 400' more over 1 miles less. I choose the south because I wanted the extra mile to play with and because the first 2 miles of the North is very steep and may have caused me to blow up before I got settled in. If I do the North I'll switch over to the 11/28, using the 30/28 for the bottom section.

The top of the mountain was in a cloud bank, no views - just a cold damp wind. Put on my arm warmers, jacket and hood and coasted down to the car.

AzTallRider

Sounds like great progress. Way to go. 7 days and counting!

I did a fast group ride this morning; 48 miles of HIT; 20.5mph avg. I held onto the A group longer than in the past, getting dropped about midway through a long shallow climb 35 minutes in. I wasn't tooo far behind the A group pack, because there ended up being a big group of both A and B riders when we left the turnaround point to head back (B group caught up to me at the water stop). I stayed up with the leaders the whole ride except for that climb, including some impromptu sprints that reached the high 30's. It's those shallow climbs the fast guys take in the low 20's that still eat me up. Where's the Clenbuterol when you need it, huh? The day I get back to the shop with the A group pack, I'm throwing a big party. As The Donald would say: "Huge! It'll be huge!"

This will be a taper week for me - Saturday is the San Diego Century with almost 9K of climbing. Not a race, but a challenging ride.

cyclinfool

Thanks! - I was happy. When I got home I had energy enough to clean on the house, go pick up 2 yards of mulch and continue to make progress on the kitchen remodeling project.

About 3 weeks after Whiteface there is the Greylock Century which I am planning on, about 9800' of climbing - several Vermont peaks and gaps. Should be fun if my condition continues to improve.

Hermes

AZT, I used to live in SD and wondered how one could get to 9K feet of climbing other than to climb up to Palomar. I looked at the flyer and it says 6100 feet and I looked at the elevation profile and there is one 1800 foot climb and another 800 foot. Eyeballing ups and downs, I could see 4,000 and calculating all ups and downs maybe 6,100. Did I look at the wrong century?

Hermes

I did a two hour endurance ride today with a z3 and z4 effort. I climbed a section of a mountain I do often. Today, I was able to spin up 80 rpm and high z4 power 7% grade. I was really happy with the high cadence. When I started training with the Russians they said it takes two years of hard work to build climbing cadence. It is a matter of heart stroke volume. I may finally getting enough stroke volume to start making a real difference - time will tell.

AzTallRider

I was basing things on this: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/75323

AzTallRider

Wow...

tandemnh

I rode 56 miles with a little over 3150' of climbing. There was probably 20+ hills of varying lengths about half between 6-9% grade. I averaged about 17.25 mph for the ride, hitting a max of about 38 mph.

In preperation for the Crank the Kank next weekend (22 miles, 2400' climbing) I focused on attacking the hills standing to climb most. On the flats I worked to keep a constant speed between 19-22 mph. The head winds, because of the approaching rain, made for a better challenge than I expected.

Tomorrow will be an off the bike day, doing chores around the house. Then Monday will most likely be a rainy LBS ride. They ride unless there is lightning. It should be about 25-28 miles. The remainder of the week will be geared towards working out with the weekend race in mind. Friday will be the main rest day as I need to work then drive up north for the race the following morning.

I took my new 2004 C"dale R2000 Triple in Friday night for a bike fit. First time, what a difference in ride. I think because of the more compact postioning, I felt like I had a better ride when standing to climb. I hope that was more than just in my head.

cyclinfool

That sounds encouraging. There is hope for all of us over time. How long was the grade? You have said in the past that you struggle with hills, sounds like that will shortly be a thing of the past.

Last year I think I had been training on hills too steep for my gearing/fitness. Yes - I could climb them but I suspect I was not getting the improvement in conditioning, I would bog down - mash at low RPM and my HR got scary.

Yesterday I estimate I was spinning 70 +/- up Greylock most of the the way - this is an average ~5% grade (some more, some less). It was only where the grades were ~>=10% that I slowed the cadence (to keep the HR in zone) and around the switchbacks where I was OTS.

As you may recall, I have been doing serious hill works for 2 years now so I guess I am due. On my training run on Whiteface (hopefully in a few weeks if the weather cooperates) I will be able to spin up keeping a high 70s rpm and a mid Z4 effort. It should be a 90 minute run.

I am trying to figure out what should be the strategy on race day. I suspect I should shoot for a little higher HR up the bulk of the hill but not sure. I also suspect I should go for a Z5 effort the last quarter mile where the grade is a little steeper and I have no reason to hold anything in the bank. What ever the strategy is I want to try it out on a lesser hill local before it makes it debut on race day.

Hermes

CF, The climb is 1 mile 7% grade but one can continue for another 3 miles. The one mile marker is a nice repeat point with very nice pavement. Since my focus is track this year, I do not want a lot of slower spinning efforts with a lot of torque. So I have been climbing less and focusing on flat to rolling terrain for road workouts where I can keep the cadence higher. But I think some climbing is okay and desirable to keep workouts fresh.

cyclinfool

Hermes,
I can understand that. You sure are doing amazing things.