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Masters Racing (All Disciplines) Race on the track or road or on your mountainbike in the Masters Category? Want to talk tactics, strategy and training with your peers?

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Old 04-29-13, 02:38 PM   #6326
chasm54
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hi old people!
Hi, young whippersnapper. You're looking at this through the wrong end of the telescope. It isn't that we are old, it is that you are callow and inexperienced.
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Old 04-29-13, 03:39 PM   #6327
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hi old people!
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Old 04-29-13, 03:53 PM   #6328
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hi old people!
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Old 04-29-13, 03:53 PM   #6329
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i love all you old people! who else would bake me cookies (grandma) and help pay for my education!
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Old 04-29-13, 04:18 PM   #6330
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Youth is [continually] wasted on the young.
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Old 04-29-13, 04:53 PM   #6331
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No cookies for you, young man. And...get a loan!



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Old 04-29-13, 06:03 PM   #6332
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Youth is [continually] wasted on the young.
One of my favorite movies.
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Old 04-30-13, 01:58 PM   #6333
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OK, so I don't know what thread I was asking about TT positioning in, but at long last I got a real bike fit, from a Retul fitter. We switched me to 165mm cranks, swapped out the stem from an 80/-6 to a 90/-17, raised the saddle, shimmed my left cleat.

Happiness.

And on a less happy note, i discovered that the rubbing sound from my front wheel on my TT bike when I stand is NOT the brake, noooo that would be too easy. My 303 is rubbing on the fork. Freaking expensive-as-$h!t wheel, and I can't use it on the bike I bought it for. FML. I'll be off to the store to try a 404 in there. On the bright side, I caught it early enough, it doesn't appear to be a murder-suicide.
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Old 04-30-13, 03:39 PM   #6334
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And on a less happy note, i discovered that the rubbing sound from my front wheel on my TT bike when I stand is NOT the brake, noooo that would be too easy. My 303 is rubbing on the fork. Freaking expensive-as-$h!t wheel, and I can't use it on the bike I bought it for. .
My HED Stingers rub on the chain stays of my SL4 if I get out of the saddle. (shaking head)

Is this a dedicated TT front wheel?
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Old 04-30-13, 04:13 PM   #6335
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My HED Stingers rub on the chain stays of my SL4 if I get out of the saddle. (shaking head)

Is this a dedicated TT front wheel?
My knees hit the elbow rests when I come off the saddle on my B2. LBS solution was "don't come off the saddle". I like their thinking!
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Old 04-30-13, 04:51 PM   #6336
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My HED Stingers rub on the chain stays of my SL4 if I get out of the saddle. (shaking head)

Is this a dedicated TT front wheel?
Bleh. Do you use them anyway? You probably have a good selection of wheels, which I don't. It doesn't seem ok to rub a groove in the fork. Right now mine is only a light abrasion on the paint.

Dedicated TT wheel - pretty much, I bought a 303/404-ptap pair, intending for them to be my race wheels on the TT bike and moving them to the road bike when the wind allows, which is not all that often. I don't have any other race wheels, I mostly race on my aluminum powertap training wheels.

Why do you ask?

I'm not sure if I'm going to keep the 303 around to put on the road bike or sell it and use the 404 or whatever I get to replace it. I'm not even sure a 404 will fit.

I'm light, very wind affected, and get really scared in gusty cross winds, so I was trying to find a balance between a fast wheel and one that I wouldn't be too scared to actually use/be in the aero bars. I realize this needs practice, which I am doing. I don't see myself with anything deeper than a 404, unless it is dead calm which it pretty much never is here.

To make the whole thing even more annoying- i got a wheelbuilder cover for the (rear) 404 but it doesn't fit in the NDS of my plasma. That plasma is turning out to be very annoying with how tight the wheel clearances are.
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Old 04-30-13, 05:04 PM   #6337
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Bleh. Do you use them anyway? You probably have a good selection of wheels, which I don't. It doesn't seem ok to rub a groove in the fork. Right now mine is only a light abrasion on the paint.

Dedicated TT wheel - pretty much, I bought a 303/404-ptap pair, intending for them to be my race wheels on the TT bike and moving them to the road bike when the wind allows, which is not all that often. I don't have any other race wheels, I mostly race on my aluminum powertap training wheels.

Why do you ask?

I'm not sure if I'm going to keep the 303 around to put on the road bike or sell it and use the 404 or whatever I get to replace it. I'm not even sure a 404 will fit.

I'm light, very wind affected, and get really scared in gusty cross winds, so I was trying to find a balance between a fast wheel and one that I wouldn't be too scared to actually use/be in the aero bars. I realize this needs practice, which I am doing. I don't see myself with anything deeper than a 404, unless it is dead calm which it pretty much never is here.

To make the whole thing even more annoying- i got a wheelbuilder cover for the (rear) 404 but it doesn't fit in the NDS of my plasma. That plasma is turning out to be very annoying with how tight the wheel clearances are.
Rubbing groves in a fork is not a good idea. I don't use the Stingers on the SL4, the abrasion is light but anything rubbing slows you down and is never a good thing. I had some Reynolds UL's that I was using but I broke the back rim (just sent it off today), and I just picked up some Dura Ace tubulars for flatter RR's. I'll use the HED's on my Venge.

I was asking because if it's a dedicated TT wheel, I'd suggest the HED trispoke. Tests very well overall and is managable in the wind. Much better under 90% of conditions than a 303, if it's blowing super hard the difference between a 303 and a box whatever trainer wheel would be small, so that would be your fallback. But if you're looking for a mass start wheel, it wouldn't work.

The 303 is a wheel that does nothing terribly well.
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Old 04-30-13, 10:26 PM   #6338
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My bike shop didn't like the Trispoke, thought the tests were done not rotating, and it would probably be wind-affected. Is your comment from personal experience? If so I would certainly trust that more.
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Old 04-30-13, 11:19 PM   #6339
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My bike shop didn't like the Trispoke, thought the tests were done not rotating, and it would probably be wind-affected. Is your comment from personal experience? If so I would certainly trust that more.
The cost/benefit equation is much more complex than most people understand. Unless you're planning on doing a very long wheelie, wheels turn which changes everything. I've been to three tunnels and the new HDC track testing facility, in addition to having a ton of hours field testing things. I'll leave it at this:



If the wind is strong enough to push the trispoke around, you'll get pushed around bit with anything. In that case go small and safe.

Oh, and there's this...

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Old 05-01-13, 08:40 AM   #6340
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Ex, wheels aside, I love the photo. You and the Shiv look great.

Good discussion!
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Old 05-01-13, 09:02 AM   #6341
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Good piece by Millar on the Giro.

Starts this weekend. There goes two hours in the morning for the next three weeks...
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Old 05-01-13, 10:14 AM   #6342
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Good piece by Millar on the Giro.

Starts this weekend. There goes two hours in the morning for the next three weeks...
With me it's the afternoons. I'll be careful with the spoilers...
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Old 05-01-13, 11:36 AM   #6343
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VG, We have HED Trispokes and race them on the outdoor and indoor track and road TTs. Like most aspect of cycling and human performance, it depends. I have been observing and talking with local racers and friends over the years and experimenting with different wheel sets and in general, we do not use the trispoke in gusty conditions. This is especially true for lighter women. And a lot has to do with handling capability, center of gravity and profile.

In the afternoons, our local time trial course becomes wind alley. The course is flat to rolling and the wind is channeled into the terrain to create sections of much stronger cross winds. When we hit these at higher speeds, the TT bike is harder to control. In strong winds, my wife does really well using traditional box rim wheels and spokes and good to very good with 58mm rims. However, the trispoke is too much for her. She has to slow down or feels like she has to slow down to control the bike.

When we go to TTs, we take the trispoke, 58 mm rims and the standard training wheels. In general, we use the rear disc and change the front depending on the wind. In a stronger steady wind, the trispoke is okay for her.

I have less issues with the trispoke but typically do not use it in gusting winds or on courses that offer the dramatic changes in wind due to terrain.

I agree with Racer Ex, the 303 seems like a compromise. You know the wind conditions at the courses where you want to race and are in the best position to determine which front wheel works the best based upon local input. I cringe when you use the word "scared". Racing, one has to be confident to maintain focus and produce power. I would prefer that you were fearless with a healthy dose of risk management overlaid on your tactics and equipment choices.
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Old 05-01-13, 12:50 PM   #6344
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Thanks Hermes. That is especially good feedback about your wife's experience. I'm looking for one wheel I can use in most wind conditions, with the training wheel as my very-windy-conditions fallback, so it sounds like the tri-spoke might be more of a handful than I want. If it was usually not-windy here it would be a better choice, but it's usually windy.
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Old 05-01-13, 01:17 PM   #6345
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It is always windy here to a degree. It is more about really windy situations and abrupt changes in wind velocity. The trispoke is MEA's preferred choice until it is really gusty and windy. That determination is more subjective than let's measure the wind speed. And it is also based on what we see other racers using and feedback from others who have been on the course ahead of us.
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Old 05-01-13, 02:50 PM   #6346
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Hi, our district championship TT course is rectangular and its location in the high desert near Palmdale is generally windy. Since the course is rectangular, there are always two legs where I have to deal with a cross wind. There was only one year when it was very windy -- steady wind 15-20 MPH(?) with higher gusts -- and I made the mistake of using my HED 3c (tri-spoke) and Zipp 900 disc. At that point, hanging on to the bike was scaring me.

Other than that, I can only think of one other time (on a different course) where a cross wind caused the TT bike to move on me.

I've had more trouble with my Reynolds DV46T UL wheels in cross winds during road races than I've had with the HED. Of course, if I was as light as our forum's women racers, I might have more trouble with the HED.
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Old 05-01-13, 07:11 PM   #6347
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Well, bad news. My company, a subcontractor on a big Gubmint contract, didn't make the cut for the next optional year. My last day with them will be 14 June. My position may or may not have been cut due to contract downsizing, so it might be just a case of being hired by the incoming contracting company (whoever they are). If my position has been cut, I'm back on the job market. Not what I wanted to be doing at 61.
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Old 05-01-13, 07:15 PM   #6348
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My thoughts are with you. Mrs. Shovel will find out on Monday if her position is going to be eliminated. My employer is on borrowed time. It's not a good scene right now.
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Old 05-01-13, 07:32 PM   #6349
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sorry to hear about the job stress, chuck & shovel. Hope for the best for you both.
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Old 05-01-13, 07:46 PM   #6350
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Good luck to everyone. Mrs. Ex and I just sent a check off to an aunt who just got out of the hospital and needed help. She asked for a loan and we just told her "Merry Christmas". My wife wrote a really nice note to her about family and how her Aunt was always there for her.

She's Revchucks age plus and is heading back to the job market as well; she's been helping to support her kid, granddaughter, and the husband on/off for quite a few years.

Frankly, I think that's total BS. But I was out on my own at 17. A 40 year old living at home is beyond my comprehension.
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