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  1. #8251
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    Could be former cat 1s back in the day that are starting over inspired by lurking here.
    That would be great - the more fast guys the better.

    The race is up in the mountains - 3.5 hour trip. I plan to head up there this weekend to 'pre-race' the course, maybe even both Sat and Sun. It ends in what is normally the deciding climb, and my plan is to take that climb off the table. I can "do well" if it comes down to the last climb, but heck, there is only one jersey, right? So pre-riding the course is important to find the attack points, and to see how much opportunity for recovery there is on what is mostly a rolling course. I also need to know how hard I should push that final climb, and earlier tough sections. Most folks have raced the course, but I haven't. Last time I did this race, I raced Cat4, and we were on a different (flatter) course. Masters have always raced the course we are doing, but I missed the race the last couple of years, for various reasons, despite loving the event and the folks who run it. Pretty much the last race of the Arizona season, as I'm not planning on doing the TT series. My main focus is to be killing it when the crit's start next season.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  2. #8252
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Plus, up until they entered the race, they were jockeys.
    Last edited by Hermes; 05-27-14 at 09:16 AM.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  3. #8253
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleave View Post

    I'm thinking the iceberg means there's a lot more guys rather than there's a lot more to Todd Robertson's story, but I could be wrong.

  4. #8254
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    I'm still in a state of shock over the finish of the US RR.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  5. #8255
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    I'm surprised they let him get away.

  6. #8256
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    You mean in the break, and with a mate?

    Still trying to not spoil it, just in case, but he is certainly someone you do not want in a break, or to even be in a break with if you want the W. He can race all out for hours, and still have an amazing kick. I've seen some of his files, and they are mind-boggling. Hard to pin-point a weakness, and that is partly because he is a total freak from a physiology marginal gains standpoint. I'm guessing he celebrated with precisely filtered alkaline water and an avocado. One of his many nick-names is "The Avocado Express". He was at our Tuesday night crit a couple of weeks ago, and in fact the week before that, trying to be incognito and not attract attention, since someone crashed him out there last year. People fight for his wheel, and he'll be even more of a magnet now. His teammate is a gem of a kid - a protege, and Mr. Avocado was clearly leading him out; kid just didn't have the speed to pass. You could see how on the edge he was for a long time before the finish. The Tues crit organizer has already laid claims to having the champion's GTI as the pace care for the sanctioned race on that course in January, which will no doubt open our season.

    The look on the 3rd place finisher's face, on the podium, was priceless. "What the ^%@$ just happened?"
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  7. #8257
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    The look on the 3rd place finisher's face, on the podium, was priceless. "What the ^%@$ just happened?"
    I thought it was more like, "This guy's almost old enough to be my father, and he creamed me!?"

    The best the pro teams could do was third? I bet they'll be loaded for bear next year.
    Regards,
    Chuck

    Demain, on roule!

  8. #8258
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Smart Stop is a pro team. They're just not stacked with dozens of riders like UHC, Optum, etc. Smaller, more focused. I hope this keeps them going.

    I was surprised at both AZT. I've watched Eric win NCC races by soloing OTF. The guy can hammer. But to let two teammates up the road so late in the race was pure arrogance, and they got what they deserved.

  9. #8259
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    <thread drift>
    shovel - The line between heavily sponsored amateur teams and small pro teams seems awfully smudged and blurry to me sometimes. Since "Mr. Avocado" holds down a full time day job, I figured he was on one of the former rather than the latter. I'm still learning about this stuff.
    </thread drift>
    Regards,
    Chuck

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  10. #8260
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    I know a guy on one of the larger pro teams. He gets around $15k/yr plus expenses and travel. Every domestic pro I know has something else going on. If Eric has his own practice, then it would be easy for him to schedule work around racing and training. The NRC/NCC calendars are set well in advance.

    revchuck, the difference to me is whether you take a salary or not. Both can win money, pay taxes on winnings, and get equipment provided.

  11. #8261
    Old Road Racer Cleave's Avatar
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    TTT District Championships this coming Saturday. Just looked at the entry list. It's about getting out there and doing it, not about winning -- right?
    Thanks.
    Cleave
    "Real men wear pink."
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  12. #8262
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Good luck to the SoCal racers doing the TTT. We will be in SoCal tomorrow getting ready for the LAVRA TTs on Sunday.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  13. #8263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleave View Post
    TTT District Championships this coming Saturday. Just looked at the entry list. It's about getting out there and doing it, not about winning -- right?
    Self defeating prophecies are self defeating. Get out there and win it.
    ...

  14. #8264
    Old Road Racer Cleave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valygrl View Post
    Self defeating prophecies are self defeating. Get out there and win it.
    We will be trying hard to beat our PR on that course (0:51:13, 27 MPH). That will be a win.

    BTW, one of the teams has a former national champion named Racer Ex on it.

    Us, three (3) enthusiastic Cat 3s and one (1) very happy to be there Cat 5.

    Hermes, I should be there in time to say, "Hi," as we pass each other on the concourse.
    Thanks.
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  15. #8265
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    I know a guy on one of the larger pro teams. He gets around $15k/yr plus expenses and travel. Every domestic pro I know has something else going on. If Eric has his own practice, then it would be easy for him to schedule work around racing and training. The NRC/NCC calendars are set well in advance.

    revchuck, the difference to me is whether you take a salary or not. Both can win money, pay taxes on winnings, and get equipment provided.
    I don't know Eric well enough to know what SmartStop pays, but yes, he works his chiropractor practice around the race schedule. His practice is athletic performance oriented, and is in a nice facility that is the base for three of performance oriented businesses. His office, and these two:

    Physical Therapy in Scottsdale, Phoenix and Mesa : Endurance Rehabilitation :
    About Us | Cyclologic

    And the shop I race for is a block away, which adds a wind-tunnel: Faster | START TO FINISH

    In that little area, you can be poked, prodded, and measured in a vast variety of ways, while spending vast sums of money.

    Cyclologic is interesting. It was founded by Paraic McGlynn, an Irishman who has been around professional cycling forever, and is considered one the world's experts on fit, mechanics, and the technology associated with those areas. He now has 5 people working for him, and has developed and integrated some really interesting technology. He was the technology guide when Faster setup its tunnel and fit technology, and he is now spending most of his time working with Trek, both in product refinement and with the team. Apparently the team refers to the guy we call Spartacus as "The Princess". Paraic says he is very particular, because he knows his stuff and wants things exactly right. Nothing wrong with that.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  16. #8266
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valygrl View Post
    Self defeating prophecies are self defeating. Get out there and win it.
    What she said. Go for it, Cleave.
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  17. #8267
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    I made a huge mistake last week. I'm still paying for it mentally. It's been really, really hard, and has caused a lot of distraction. And angst.

    I rode a Specialized Amira SL4 Race Pro. I'm not a Specialized fan, but that bike was the bomb. I can't afford it. My CAAD 10 is great, and perfectly suited for me.

    Right?
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  18. #8268
    So it is LAJ's Avatar
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    Sara, you are correct. Plus, now that you mentioned Specialized, you're on their radar. Expect a letter from their attorney each time you utter the words Roubaix, Allez, or any word that begins with A or R.
    Quote Originally Posted by rpenmanparker View Post
    Not to be argumentative

  19. #8269
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valygrl View Post
    Self defeating prophecies are self defeating. Get out there and win it.
    That's sig worthy. Reminds me of Kate's tea party comment.

  20. #8270
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Sara, I know what you mean. Both bikes are fine race machines but there is no comparison between a factory aluminum frame and a factory high end carbon frame. I found a world of difference between an entry level carbon frame and a mid level carbon frame from the same manufacturer. It's one of those "woah" moments.

    I never thought I'd be able to afford carbon wheels. I own two sets. I never thought I'd be able to afford an electronic gear set. I found a way. I never thought I could afford an SRM. I can. I had to be very creative and build up over time. Unless you're wedded to SRAM Rival, think frameset and associated upgrades. Rival has had more than it's share if problems even though they have great customer service.

    You should also take a look at the Felt ZW1. It's a grand less than the Amira frameset and the construction is a step above my Fc. Available in sizes as small as 43cm. IMO it's a steal for a high end frameset.

  21. #8271
    Senior Member IBOHUNT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valygrl View Post
    Self defeating prophecies are self defeating. Get out there and win it.
    Keeper right there.

  22. #8272
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    Sara, I know what you mean. Both bikes are fine race machines but there is no comparison between a factory aluminum frame and a factory high end carbon frame. I found a world of difference between an entry level carbon frame and a mid level carbon frame from the same manufacturer. It's one of those "woah" moments.

    I never thought I'd be able to afford carbon wheels. I own two sets. I never thought I'd be able to afford an electronic gear set. I found a way. I never thought I could afford an SRM. I can. I had to be very creative and build up over time. Unless you're wedded to SRAM Rival, think frameset and associated upgrades. Rival has had more than it's share if problems even though they have great customer service.

    You should also take a look at the Felt ZW1. It's a grand less than the Amira frameset and the construction is a step above my Fc. Available in sizes as small as 43cm. IMO it's a steal for a high end frameset.
    Shovel, thanks. I should tell you what happened. The Tall Russian has been totally smitten with the Wilier Zero 7 (and the Bianchi Oltre), so he had me find a bike shop that carried Wilier and had the Zero 7 in stock. A Mike's Bikes in Sacramento did. So, we rode over there when we were in Davis last week, and he rode the Zero 7, and just for grins, I rode a Zero 9. He just loved the Zero 7, even though it'll never see what it was intended for if he buys one. I did not care for the Zero 9, because I thought it would be more responsive than it was, and I was surprised at it's un-supple ride quality. The sales fella talked me into trying the Amira SL4 Race Pro, WSD (which I've always thought was a marketing ploy), and yes, it had SRAM, but I think it was Force. It was also 54 CM, which you would think would be too big for me. I was hesitant, because, like I said, I am no fan of Specialized as a company. Yeah, I ride an Oura saddle, but their bikes - no. Anyway, I thought, what the heck, I'm here, they're offering, I'll give it a try. I didn't expect anything - I mean anything - especially after coming off of that Wilier super bike and being underwhelmed. I thought it would be just another bicycle. It was anything but. It was light, smooth, it just jumped when I put the power down. OTS sprints were way fun, it didn't wiggle around at all, it just went straight ahead and accelerated. It cornered similar to my CAAD (which corners really well), but just similar - it was much better, like on rails, and oh so stable. I was concerned it might be too big, but uh-uh. Everything was right where it should be. The SRAM group shifted very well (loud, but fast). I was just totally blown away. And I did not expect that.

    But, it's $6100 with tax, and no way can I justify that expense. You mentioned frameset? The Amira S-Works frameset is all there is. It's over $4000.

    Next season, or in the off season, I'll consider changing steeds. I'll look at Felts, BMC, Boardman, who knows. I already just love the ride quality of my Felt TT bike (that thing is so supple, but it's stiff, too), so Felt is high on the list. Cannondale EVO is also way up there. Right now, mid season, I don't want to get used to another bike, and I am already stretched with coaching, going to races, etc.

    So....it was an eye opener, I have seen The Truth, and I appreciated it. I guess I am a better rider than I thought, because I was convinced I'd not feel the difference in the levels of bikes. It was a validation, of sorts. And that was cool!
    Last edited by sarals; 05-29-14 at 01:00 PM.
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  23. #8273
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    It's funny, Evos with 6770 were all the rage around here for the past two years, but they have faded away to a whole mix of stuff, but it's all 11 Speed. It's just amazing the disposable income these Masters guys have. I'd keep the frame and upgrade everything else. They just get a new bike, and for a nice chunk of them, they went to 9000 or 9070.

    I will wait patiently until the 11 speed or 11 speed upgradeable wheels, cassettes, and components start showing up en masse on the used market. My 10 speed stuff isn't going to depreciate too much more, and I bought most of it used.

  24. #8274
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    It's funny, Evos with 6770 were all the rage around here for the past two years, but they have faded away to a whole mix of stuff, but it's all 11 Speed. It's just amazing the disposable income these Masters guys have. I'd keep the frame and upgrade everything else. They just get a new bike, and for a nice chunk of them, they went to 9000 or 9070.

    I will wait patiently until the 11 speed or 11 speed upgradeable wheels, cassettes, and components start showing up en masse on the used market. My 10 speed stuff isn't going to depreciate too much more, and I bought most of it used.
    10s is going to be around for a long, long time, i think. no real performance reason to upgrade--it's definitely more want than need for most at this point.

    that said, for people buying new now, 11s does make sense.

    funny you mention 6770--if people wanted to go 11s they could pop on a 6870 or 9070 RD and be good, but most folks will probably wind up buying a whole new drivetrain. it's definitely gratuitous (or uninformed if one wants to be cynical), but if they've got the money then so be it.

    an 11s 11-28 or 11-25 does have smaller gaps, so that is one nice thing.

    (for the record, i'm currently undergoing some 11s conversions, though it was sort of a 'too good to pass up' deal.)

  25. #8275
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post
    ...

    (for the record, i'm currently undergoing some 11s conversions, though it was sort of a 'too good to pass up' deal.)
    I meant to ask you about that.. Is that deal available, or was it a private one time deal?
    ...

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