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  1. #8451
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    I have spun out in rides and races with a 53/11. The 11 is also good for resting in the field, tailwind sprints, and adaptation. I have 21, 23, 25, and 28's.

  2. #8452
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    36 mph isn't winning many sprints.

    Sometimes I sprint at lower rpms because that's what feels right. It's nice to have options.

  3. #8453
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    36 mph isn't winning many sprints.

    Sometimes I sprint at lower rpms because that's what feels right. It's nice to have options.
    It does in most of my 60+ races. A 12.5 flying 200 probably gets the #1 seed at Master's Nats too. Some of us are old and slow.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  4. #8454
    Senior Member IBOHUNT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegheny Jet View Post
    It does in most of my 60+ races. A 12.5 flying 200 probably gets the #1 seed at Master's Nats too. Some of us are old and slow.
    and fat. The combo of all 3 is not good.

  5. #8455
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    I've spun out 50/13 a few times in road races (due to hanging on so hard I forgot to shift again) in my admittedly short career, and that was on the flat. I've got a couple of races with downhills (rare in Louisiana) coming up, so I have no doubt I'll make use of the 50/11. I don't see myself using the 11t cog with the standard crankset, but then that could change too. Worst case, I'll have a cassette I can use when I need to do low cadence/high power workouts.
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  6. #8456
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    I spun out a 56/11 at Gila in the TT.

  7. #8457
    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    I spun out a 56/11 at Gila in the TT.
    That's gross. I'm not prepared to compare myself to that.
    There have been many days when I haven't felt like riding, but there has never been a day when I was sorry I rode.

  8. #8458
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegheny Jet View Post
    It does in most of my 60+ races. A 12.5 flying 200 probably gets the #1 seed at Master's Nats too. Some of us are old and slow.
    You also have to lead yourself out.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

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  9. #8459
    Old Road Racer Cleave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    I have spun out in rides and races with a 53/11. The 11 is also good for resting in the field, tailwind sprints, and adaptation. I have 21, 23, 25, and 28's.
    +1, except for tailwind sprints for me.

    I have too many cassettes (that I have to keep clean ). Since different varieties (Record, Chorus, etc) of Campagnolo 10-speed have different gear combinations, I have 21, 22, 23, 25, 26, 29. The small cogs vary from 11-13. What I've found at my current level of fitness and weight is that if I am doing a road race that is a circuit, I need the 25 or 26 going uphill and I want the 11 for downhills. Unfortunately, the 26 only has a 13 so I've compromised and use the 25 (with an 11). I know that some of you are thinking that I'm splitting hairs with a 25 versus 26 but I am kind of like the princess and the pea. I can feel the difference.

    It seems that the races that really require the 26 or 29 are only or mostly uphill so the 13 is a non-issue.
    Thanks.
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  10. #8460
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasm54 View Post
    That's gross. I'm not prepared to compare myself to that.
    That race the guy who was 3rd on clipped a traffic barrier in that section and hit the deck.

    It. Was. Not. Pretty.

  11. #8461
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Gluing on a tubie to my rear disc in a hotel room in Irvine. The last time I rode at Velo Sports Center, I punctured my rear wheel on the 45 degree banking and successfully rode off the track. The old tire was very secure on the rim when I took it off. I am always careful when gluing but after the flat on the boards, I am REALLY being careful. It is unclear to me if I would have been able to keep the bike up if I had been on clinchers and riding on the rim. Although, I did see a racer at VSC blow out a tire and have the entire tire come off the rim such that he was dragging it. He stayed up but it was not on the banking. A few months ago, a racer during one of Roger's sessions blew out a tire on the banking, slid down the track and took out Roger such that Roger broke his collarbone and a couple of ribs.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

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  12. #8462
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Was he invited back?

  13. #8463
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    I do not know. My locker partner is the certification instructor who happened to not be there that day and another guy substituted. I was telling him about the incident with the rider and my flat this evening and that I remembered what he had told us to do if anything went wrong on the track when I took his class. The key is to stay relaxed and keep power on but head for the blue band that is the transition of the apron to the banking. It is painted and has more grip than the Siberian Pine. So once you are on the blue band, the handling of the bike is pretty normal. You just slow down and then stop. I told him that he did a good job and his instructions had stayed in my head since 2010.

    I do not know how they keep track of who is "certified" or in many cases "certifiable".
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

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  14. #8464
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Hermes, I assume Roger was on his motor? Other than his clavicle, did anything happen to the track surface? I would think that motor could tear up that wood if it fell on it.
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  15. #8465
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarals View Post
    Hermes, I assume Roger was on his motor? Other than his clavicle, did anything happen to the track surface? I would think that motor could tear up that wood if it fell on it.
    No. Roger was on his TT bike.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

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  16. #8466
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    I have three weeks of racing left. I will do a road race next weekend, which features a scored 55 - 64 age group category, the following weekend will be a time trial, once again with age group category, and the last weekend of the month will be a crit with age group again. The road race and crit are NCNCA championship races, but that's a so what for me. I'm not quite good enough to finish in the money in either, so I'm not going to worry about it. I am going to work on getting my head screwed on right and doing some smart racing. The road race will be a challenge. I've yet to finish in the pack on a hilly course, and this race has some rollers and a long grade. Nothing serious, but enough for me to be in some difficulty. The crit is a flat, wide, less than a mile four corners course, and I am positively aching to get on the bike for that one. The TT is over a course I did last year, Cull Canyon, and once again, it's going to be about me being smart.

    I'd like to do some cyclocross in the off season. I've got a couple of old, heavy mountain bikes I can ride. One is too small, and other is too big and way too heavy, but they must be good for something! I'm not going to go and buy a cross bike just to see if I like it, I'll use one of those bikes instead. Who knows, I might even have fun.

    Maybe I can get three Saturdays in at Hellyer so I can qualify for that track. I'd like to do that, too.
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  17. #8467
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Several of us have, or are, struggling with injuries that make us question whether it's worth it to continue racing our bikes. I believe one of the traits that separates us from the 'cycling enthusiasts' is the need to do whatever we do unquestionably well. I know that I am frankly unwilling to do anything poorly. If you can't be good at it, then why bother? Two seasons in a row messed up by injury, and this latest issue, has had me wondering whether that aspect is just too much - that I need to let it go. As we age, recovering from injury takes longer and longer, and we all learn that there is just no way to avoid the chance of injury. ****e happens, to even the best bike handlers with great pack skills.

    But.

    What I can't let go of, are two things.

    First is that, having become someone who really races his bike, the thought of settling back to being an 'enthusiast' feels like a retreat, like giving up. We all ride with those guys, the ones who are uploading Strava real time, and trying to find some way for it appear like they have beaten you somehow, but who are never willing to pin on the number before clipping in. I couldn't stomach that. Sorry if that is insulting or judgmental, but it's the way I feel. And after two glasses of a great Zinfandel (bless you, Ridge), I'm expressing how I feel.

    The other is that, again to be frank, I've been fast. Not "fast for my age". Just fast. Period. I know how that feels. I want to feel it again. It's worth the risk of failure, of not getting there. Of putting it all out there for the training, and the races, and not cutting it like I used to. I don't fear failure, or I'd be a cycling enthusiast, or someone who believes finishing in the pack is a good result.

    i'm going for it.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  18. #8468
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    AzT, VERY well said. You put into words feelings I've been having.

    Your last sentence - GOOD!!!

    I don't mean to shift the focus to me, really, I don't. However, this needs saying. I am mediocre at best, even among peers. I have a hard time with that, because I am one who excels when she goes after something, and really excel when someone tells me I'll never realize my goal. That I've struggled this season with racing my bike has been a bitter pill to swallow, and more than once I've wanted to retreat to being a "fast casual rider". Then, I have a conversation with a woman or women who ARE fast casual riders, and they are in awe that I am 'out there, doing it'. That gives me the impetus I need to keep after it. I used to measure my success as finishing with the pack, staying attached, not getting flustered. It's narrower now. I want success the way a racer succeeds - by racing and racing well. That is something that isn't given away, it has to be earned. To earn it means hard work. I'm in, for another season.
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  19. #8469
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Azt, You got on a great roll and it was darn fun to watch. Since then it's been an obstacle course but I do believe we haven't seen your best. I write that having worked through a lot of similar obstacles myself and with other athletes I have been fortunate enough to work with. The one thing that is rewarded more often than anything in this sport is dogged persistence. I'm sure as heck going to do everything I can to help you get back to where you were and better.

    Sara, go count your medals then read through your past posts about not listening or following the plan. Then imagine if you hadn't wandered off the reservation so much. As damn impressive as your walking through brick walls is, if you looked for and used the doors in those walls you'd get through faster and save a lot of bruising.
    Last edited by Racer Ex; 08-09-14 at 11:29 PM.

  20. #8470
    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post

    We all ride with those guys, the ones who are uploading Strava real time, and trying to find some way for it appear like they have beaten you somehow, but who are never willing to pin on the number before clipping in. I couldn't stomach that. Sorry if that is insulting or judgmental, but it's the way I feel. And after two glasses of a great Zinfandel (bless you, Ridge), I'm expressing how I feel.
    I absolutely agree about this. There's no disgrace in not wanting to race, and just beng someone who likes riding their bike. But the "I could be good at this if I wanted to" poseurs are just that. If they aren't going to pin on the number and compete, then I'm not interested in how good they think they are or how their KOM total says they could have been a contender.

    Good for you for sticking with it, AZT. My own decision is going to be different, I think. Too many injuries that it's hard to come back from, and, if I'm honest, each crash means I have less and less appetite for another. For me to be competitive in the 3/4 races I have to be at my absolute best, and I'm not sure I've missed racing crits enough to motivate me to get back to that point.

    But one of the things that a couple of seasons racing did for me was impose some structure on my training and got me seriously fit. I certainly don't want to lose all of that. So I think I'm going to shift my focus from crits and road racing to TT. I promised myself, a couple of years ago, that I'd celebrate turning 60 by going under the hour for a 40k. I'm 60 next month, and not at present in shape to do that. But it isn't impossible that I could get there before I'm 61. And making the effort will keep me involved, and alive in the full sense of the word.

    Keep on keeping on.
    There have been many days when I haven't felt like riding, but there has never been a day when I was sorry I rode.

  21. #8471
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    Several of us have, or are, struggling with injuries that make us question whether it's worth it to continue racing our bikes. I believe one of the traits that separates us from the 'cycling enthusiasts' is the need to do whatever we do unquestionably well. I know that I am frankly unwilling to do anything poorly. If you can't be good at it, then why bother? Two seasons in a row messed up by injury, and this latest issue, has had me wondering whether that aspect is just too much - that I need to let it go. As we age, recovering from injury takes longer and longer, and we all learn that there is just no way to avoid the chance of injury. ****e happens, to even the best bike handlers with great pack skills.

    But.

    What I can't let go of, are two things.

    First is that, having become someone who really races his bike, the thought of settling back to being an 'enthusiast' feels like a retreat, like giving up. We all ride with those guys, the ones who are uploading Strava real time, and trying to find some way for it appear like they have beaten you somehow, but who are never willing to pin on the number before clipping in. I couldn't stomach that. Sorry if that is insulting or judgmental, but it's the way I feel. And after two glasses of a great Zinfandel (bless you, Ridge), I'm expressing how I feel.

    The other is that, again to be frank, I've been fast. Not "fast for my age". Just fast. Period. I know how that feels. I want to feel it again. It's worth the risk of failure, of not getting there. Of putting it all out there for the training, and the races, and not cutting it like I used to. I don't fear failure, or I'd be a cycling enthusiast, or someone who believes finishing in the pack is a good result.

    i'm going for it.
    And I'm not surprised. You are an athlete. You can do this, you can get better at this, and you don't want to consider stopping until you've reached some reasonable goal. You'll get there. Keep working at it.

    This is a timely thread for me as I also have had two seasons in a row disrupted by injury. I spend a lot of time every day contemplating what I am going to do next year. I think the difference between myself and some of you who are newer entrants to the sport is that, other than a national championship, I have reached my reasonable goals. I have won at the national level more than once. I also enjoy riding with friends whether they race or not. Fred life doesn't scare me. I also get a lot of positive feedback about my age, which is nice, because it brings reality back into view, a view that is always focused when you are amongst your racing peers. You know, the ones with the stripes, the ex-pros, and Olympians. I feel a lot differently about myself in that group.

    I have lots of things to think about. Lots of questions. Today's thought of the day, as I get ready to head off to the NE RR Championships in my blue shirt, is to spend next year racing M50+ and up, and doing pro races for fitness early. This may mean losing my slot on the team and going back to being a club racer. No more M40+ and M45+. A lot less racing. Hopefully a lot more officiating. Less racing, but better focus. Laser focus on the M55+, including Nats. Especially Nats, because, remember those reasonable goals? Racing for a jersey in the same field with Ex is something I cannot pass up, and it doesn't really matter to me who ends up wearing it.

  22. #8472
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    Especially Nats, because, remember those reasonable goals? Racing for a jersey in the same field with Ex is something I cannot pass up, and it doesn't really matter to me who ends up wearing it.
    I would be there for that, whether racing or not.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  23. #8473
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Eric Marcotte's coach, Adam Mills, wrote an article for Cycling Illustrated, detailing how he won, complete with power charts:

    Part One
    Part Two

    "Starting with Ericís first jump and lasting until the break was established, around 20 minutes into the race, Ericís average speed was 28.9mph at a normalized power of 387W. Equally impressive is that Eric spent around 7 minutes and 30 seconds above 500W during this time."
    Last edited by AzTallRider; 08-10-14 at 09:02 AM.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  24. #8474
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    This is a very uplifting thread. Very inspiring! The is the positive BF Racer Forum of old, and I love what you, Shovel, AzT, and Ex, are saying.

    Ex, I appreciate the public kick in the butt, and you know I know it. Lately it has sunk in, and I've lead my life by the TRS, no matter what. Learning the discipline of training is one thing, but learning WHY has been a challenge for me, and there in lie the slips. Now I know, and you can hold me to it.

    Shovel, I wish I had your gift for clear thinking and focus on a goal. Then again, your ability to identify a goal! Very impressive, my friend.

    AzT, your patience and persistence have always been inspiring to me, and your grit is remarkable. Good on you!
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  25. #8475
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    I would be there for that, whether racing or not.
    Oh, so would I!
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

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