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  1. #976
    gone ride'n cyclinfool's Avatar
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    Hi all - hope you have a great weekend! Sounds like you all have been having a lot of fun.

    My legs finally recovered from our hike last weekend, it took 4 days. I could ride but I could barely walk. My legs have never been that thoroughly battered. This was an eye opener - I have trained the cycling muscles and ignored every thing else.

    I did a mild ride on Tuesday and a "sort of" training ride on Thursday with my training partner. What I found was I had some more speed and power on Thursday. I think the intense workout on Sunday in Mother Natures Gym did some real good. My daughter and I were supposed to climb three more mountains this weekend (as part of an overnight in the woods) but she told me that I needed some time off, and I knew she was right, I could not concentrate at work, I found myself just sitting at my desk looking for busy work, a sure sign of exhaustion. So I am taking the weekend off, added a day of vacation today and just plan to chill. I may ride 85 miles on Monday if I am feeling totally rested.

    Have a great 4th and be safe.
    "Of all the things I ever lost I miss my mind the most." Mark Twain
    If all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

  2. #977
    Don't mince words Red Rider's Avatar
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    My upper torso is so sore from 2 challenging TRX sessions this week that I had to sit upright on the back of the tandem today to give my triceps a break. Tomorrow I'll be back on the TT bike. c_gallagh removed a spacer and flipped the stem, resulting in a much more aggressive position.
    When my feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh, *****, she's awake!"

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  3. #978
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Just sent Coach an email to sort out specific off-season goals. Here is my list... we'll see what she does to it. Feel free to comment!

    A. Power
    1. FTP from 272w to 300w (+28)
    2. CP-5s from 880w to 1,100w (+220w)
    3. Increase sprint speed to 40+ (with leadout)
    4. Add ~5 matches to my book
    (not sure of the best measure for this)
    5. Improve 'power at endurance' for climbs
    (not sure of the best measure for this)

    B. Skills
    1. Max cadence to 140's
    2. Make cornering a competitive advantage.
    3. Shrink my "Comfort Sphere", to enable closer proximity to other riders at speed.
    4. Improve awareness of what's happening, and what's likely to occur.
    5. Reduce nominal power needed in pacelines/pack.

    C. Other
    1. Improve core and upper body strength
    2. Significantly reduce CdA
    3. Tune geo/fit for performance
    4. Find good long-race nutrition solutions (SE turns putrid)
    5. Become entrenched in eating habits that support my goals
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  4. #979
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    46 miles this morning on the road bike. 2300 feet of climbing, speed work (some sprints), and a general good time - with the group. It was a strong ride, aided by that fact that group I regularly ride with on Saturdays is strong - and getting stronger. On the way back I got gapped while we were riding into a stiff headwind and I could NOT pull myself back to the group (pace was 20 MPH). Droppage - embarrassing! My heart rate did exceed the 151 BPM "barrier" - I saw a max of 155 BPM on a particularly hard climb. Perhaps there is hope!

    Tonight I'm going to Hellyer Velodrome with the "Monterey Contingent" to see the "Big Guns" race. That will be a lesson!

    I'm close to pulling the trigger on a track bike. I may go frame/build kit or complete (used, trying to save money).
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  5. #980
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    Just sent Coach an email to sort out specific off-season goals. Here is my list... we'll see what she does to it. Feel free to comment!

    A. Power
    1. FTP from 272w to 300w (+28)
    2. CP-5s from 880w to 1,100w (+220w)
    3. Increase sprint speed to 40+ (with leadout)
    4. Add ~5 matches to my book
    (not sure of the best measure for this)
    5. Improve 'power at endurance' for climbs
    (not sure of the best measure for this)

    B. Skills
    1. Max cadence to 140's
    2. Make cornering a competitive advantage.
    3. Shrink my "Comfort Sphere", to enable closer proximity to other riders at speed.
    4. Improve awareness of what's happening, and what's likely to occur.
    5. Reduce nominal power needed in pacelines/pack.

    C. Other
    1. Improve core and upper body strength
    2. Significantly reduce CdA
    3. Tune geo/fit for performance
    4. Find good long-race nutrition solutions (SE turns putrid)
    5. Become entrenched in eating habits that support my goals
    AzT, I'm impressed! It seems you're serious about this! ;~)

    Oh - you forgot to add "watch the Tour de France".
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  6. #981
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarals View Post
    AzT, I'm impressed! It seems you're serious about this! ;~)

    Oh - you forgot to add "watch the Tour de France".
    Yes, maybe TOO serious. Fortunately, watching the Tour is almost a coaching requirement.

    On this morning's group ride, another rider coached by DeeAnn joined the ride, and Coach had asked me to nudge her into into it by promising a friendly wheel on the flats. She was on her own on the climbs! So I played Domestique, going back for her once on a really fast section when I realized she had likely been dropped. She said I didn't have to wait because she knew the way back, but I said. "Pretend you're on the Tour, you flatted, and I'm here to pull you back to the peloton." :-) So I did, and learned why, when you do that, you end up dropped yourself. Really took it out of me. The peloton, ahhh... didn't slow for us.

    I had really attacked the biggest climb. It's preceded by a fast decline. I went OTF with a couple of other guys, and when we turned for the climb and they sat up to regroup, I just kept pushing it, building a gap I knew would be closed going uphill. Got me to the water stop in 4th. Fun stuff today, but we have hit the heavy summer months. 4 bottles of water were just barely enough for 2.5 hours.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  7. #982
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarals View Post
    Droppage - embarrassing!
    Not really... just another opportunity to learn

    I'm close to pulling the trigger on a track bike. I may go frame/build kit or complete (used, trying to save money).
    Hooked... line and sinker.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  8. #983
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarals;12871633[COLOR="silver"
    ]46 miles this morning on the road bike. 2300 feet of climbing, speed work (some sprints), and a general good time - with the group. It was a strong ride, aided by that fact that group I regularly ride with on Saturdays is strong - and getting stronger. On the way back I got gapped while we were riding into a stiff headwind and I could NOT pull myself back to the group (pace was 20 MPH). Droppage - embarrassing! My heart rate did exceed the 151 BPM "barrier" - I saw a max of 155 BPM on a particularly hard climb. Perhaps there is hope![/COLOR]

    Tonight I'm going to Hellyer Velodrome with the "Monterey Contingent" to see the "Big Guns" race. That will be a lesson!

    I'm close to pulling the trigger on a track bike. I may go frame/build kit or complete (used, trying to save money).
    Some of the big guns were at BtC but not competing in points race or scratch competition.

    I suggest that you go to a beginner session on Saturday morning at Hellyer and rent a track bike. Unless you are already an experienced fixed gear rider, you have to learn how to ride a fixed gear bike with a larger group of racers in a paceline. You may or may not like it.

    Also, BtC is a totally unique event. I suggest looking over the Hellyer calendar to see if there are events and open times that match your schedule and qualifications. Each open track session requires a level of expertise.

    The Saturday sessions are structured training sessions and controlled by a supervisor. I suggest that you do several of these to get the feel of riding fixed gear no brakes and allow the supervisors and you to get to know each other.

    Whatever you decide to do, good luck.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  9. #984
    Don't mince words Red Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    Some of the big guns were at BtC but not competing in points race or scratch competition.

    I suggest that you go to a beginner session on Saturday morning at Hellyer and rent a track bike. Unless you are already an experienced fixed gear rider, you have to learn how to ride a fixed gear bike with a larger group of racers in a paceline. You may or may not like it.

    Also, BtC is a totally unique event. I suggest looking over the Hellyer calendar to see if there are events and open times that match your schedule and qualifications. Each open track session requires a level of expertise.

    The Saturday sessions are structured training sessions and controlled by a supervisor. I suggest that you do several of these to get the feel of riding fixed gear no brakes and allow the supervisors and you to get to know each other.

    Whatever you decide to do, good luck.
    c_gallagh and I are headed to the beginner session 7/16, along with at least one other former trackie who rides on our team. I believe Sara will be there as well.

    We're looking at track bikes but also willing to try a few sessions to see if that's something we want to invest time and $$ in -- we had a blast last week and want to see if our thrill was merely adrenaline-based. Having invested in a TT bike we need to be sure before we get serious about track bikes.

    Still...we had so. much. fun.
    When my feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh, *****, she's awake!"

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  10. #985
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Rider View Post
    c_gallagh and I are headed to the beginner session 7/16, along with at least one other former trackie who rides on our team. I believe Sara will be there as well.

    We're looking at track bikes but also willing to try a few sessions to see if that's something we want to invest time and $$ in -- we had a blast last week and want to see if our thrill was merely adrenaline-based. Having invested in a TT bike we need to be sure before we get serious about track bikes.

    Still...we had so. much. fun.
    That sounds like a perfect idea.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  11. #986
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    That sounds like a perfect idea.
    That's my thinking, as well. I will be at the track on 7/16 with Red et al for the session. Rental bikes are in order! As you know, Hermes, even a "low priced" competent track bike is a considerable amount of money.

    Last nights race was impressive! It told me clearly that sprints are where I need to be for a while, IF I'm going to do this. Those 40 and 60 lap races, with MANY riders were literally criteriums on the track - without brakes! It's easy to understand, after seeing those, why one would need to be certified before doing one. The speeds were incredible. Speaking of speed, two riders, teammates, set a track record in the 200 of 10:43. Well over 40 MPH! Holy maloney.
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  12. #987
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    After three hours of (needed) yard work, I took an allen wrench and the B2 and worked on the fit. 6 miles, mostly sprints, and it still isn't right! That saddle is just torturing me. It's a good thing I'm past my child-bearing years! Anyway, 28 MPH max, I didn't wear the HR monitor, I just wanted to get the bike adjusted and stretch some. Tomorrow I have long ride with a long climb - 7 miles of over 13% grades. Now, that'll be a workout!

    I'm still amazed at the riding I saw at the velodrome last night. Incredible leg speeds and incredible bike speeds, as well as skillful bike handling and pretty cool tactics. The bike porn was inspiring, too!
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  13. #988
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Did a "Threshold Criss/Cross" workout this morning: 2x15' at just under threshold, with 10-12" in z6 (just above VO2max) every 2 minutes. Good solid workout.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  14. #989
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    I raced the Medina Twin Sizzler today under ideal conditions of 70 degrees, sunny and very light wind. I believe the race has the most participants of any race in Ohio. I estimate there were over 350 people making up the juniors, women and men's races leaving in 3 minute waves. It's classified as a Citizen Race but there were several National Champions entered in the races. In my age group, 55-59 yrs, we had at least 30 - 35 competitors with one guy wearing the State TT Champ jersey. It was really fun racing against guys my age.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  15. #990
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    I just came back from a sixty mile ride with a fairly fast group (lots of really young folks) featuring about 4000 feet of climbing. It was not a shining moment for me. I went off the back fairly early (at about twenty miles), and then bonked in a spectacular way near the top of the steepest (and longest) climb. It was damn near 100 degrees, I got stung by a yellow jacket, then I over heated - big time. My heart rate shot up to 173 BPM, I started shivering, and I felt awful - just a quivering pile of proto-plasma - and I had to stop. After fifteen minutes, my heart still hadn't recovered to below 120 BPM (something I've NEVER seen before, I'm always below 100 after about two minutes), but I started moving and made it to the top. I wasn't the same after that. I had no legs, at all. My Saturday ride was not so great, either, but it wasn't this bad. I need to figure out what's going on.
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  16. #991
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Sounds like a bad couple days Sara. Reads like the body may be cooked and you really are pushing too hard. In earlier post you said that you couldn't get the HR up. You may need to take a few days off to recover and reset the body. I had a sinus infection and after affects that lasted all of April and well into May before I got any top end efforts out of my body. It was really frustrating being able to complete the training rides but not have any race efforts to give when it counted. It's only been the last 3 or 4 weeks that I've felt normal again.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  17. #992
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    AJ, The Medina race sounded great. After growing up in North Olmsted and going to school at Cleveland State, your posts about places, weather and etc always bring back memories of wonderful times.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  18. #993
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    My wife and I had a wonderful 4th of July training and practice racing at LA Velodrome. I arranged to workout with the 4PM session on Thursday which consists of very accomplished men and women racers. Saturday was a special session to workout with my friends and practice some team pursuit. I was not sure how my wife would fit in athletically (me too). The sessions were superb and she was a rock start on the track keeping up in blistering pace lines and technical maneuvers.

    On Saturday, we shared the track with 4 nationally ranked juniors. As we get older, unfortunately, there are generation gaps in both physical ability and maturity. However, these juniors were superb athletes and very mature young men. Their skills were excellent and the discipline perfect. I talked with a couple and they were very nice and outgoing. It seemed like the generation gap did not exist... until it was time to do the efforts. They were total monsters doing kilo 4 man efforts knocking out 17 second laps 33 mph in perfect formation.

    We 60+ plusers did our pace line efforts slower (not much) and had a great time training together. My wife was the only woman and odd person out but she did the warmup and 10 very fast laps. She wanted to do a practice 2K pursuit. So we set up the track for a simulated race and courtesy of one of our friends HD video of her effort. She set a PR for the 2K by a couple of seconds and also set a PR for the 500 meters as part of her 2K first two laps. That is technically bad to do but that can be fixed by going slower initially. However, when you see the video you will know why she was a little pumped up. This was her best standing start ever. BTW, we fought over who would do what for her race such as flipping the lap counter, ringing the bell, calling lap times and holding her. I executed my spousal right for the hold.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_Kiy...&feature=feedf
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  19. #994
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Hermes, the best way one could appreciate how fast your wife really is, is to have her blast by you out on that track. She is FAST.

    I had a conversation with my marathoner brothers this afternoon. We talked about my poor efforts as of late, and the heart rate numbers I've been seeing, as well as other "oddities", such as my yo-yoing weight and poor sleep cycles. They both suggested that I'm over doing it, and that maybe I should take it easy (not appealing!). One of them reminded me that I'm almost sixty (really?), and that my body doesn't recover from exertion as quickly or as completely as it could have, say, thirty years ago. He said this: "You aren't 30 anymore, or 40 or even 50. 60 ain't young. That kind of ride is challenging for 30 year olds whose muscles are more efficient at flushing acid, stronger, and can recover more quickly. Does that mean you can't do a ride like that? No, it doesn't. David runs marathons, so it's clearly possible. But you have to be realistic and not expect too much too soon. Nuff said. Don't let it get you down. Good training ride, but give your poor body a chance to recover and don't neglect hydration."

    Strong points. However, I'm stubborn. I have goals. I have a body that was never, ever stressed or hurt when it was young. It's fresh. There has to be a key, a method, to making it stronger so I can achieve my goals. I'll find it, too. I don't take poor performance on my part very well at all. I know I'm not a "gifted athlete", but I do know I can do more, and do it better, than I have so far. There are times, like today, where I'll go a little deeper, longer, and harder than I should. I ignore the warning signs so I can see just where the limits are. I did find limits today, but they were lower than I expected, and really, I have performed much better than I did today. Rest? Yeah, I should. Will I? Not unless someone makes me!
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  20. #995
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Sara, I think your attitude is fantastic, and just what is needed. I suspect what is happening is a combination of things: working hard, maybe not allowing the recovery days you needed, and the heat that has finally hit the Western states. I know my morning rides have turned into 'survival' from a hydration/nutrition standpoint, and that is a tough ride you described. I like to push hard, but have accepted Coach's instructions to have two recovery days a week. I can ride if I really want to, but it is a 'how slow can I go' sort of thing. My recovery days are Friday (usually no riding) and Sunday (an occasional morning recovery ride). When you are new at this, like us, you want to get up to speed as quick as you can... but doing that -does- require rest, as it is during the rest cycle, not the exercise cycle, that the muscle development occurs. You have to think of the rest as additional training. Chill, and envision your muscles evolving to look like Sarah Hammer's!

    And tell your brother to 'STFU' about your age!
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  21. #996
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    AzT, thank you. Your support and kind words mean a lot to me. I'm chilling today, but I'm also kicking myself for yesterdays embarrassing performance. That's just me, though. Tomorrow starts anew!

    Oh - my brother is cool guy! He's practical, too.

    Sarah Hammer? When she's sixty, maybe!

    Off to work with me...
    Last edited by sarals; 07-05-11 at 04:49 PM.
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  22. #997
    Old Road Racer Cleave's Avatar
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    Hi,

    I can barely walk today. Stairs are especially painful going up AND down.

    Packed in a little over 200 miles of training in 3-days. Saturday was about 58 miles with 6K ft of climbing in 90F weather. Forgot to put on my HR transmitter so my exertions were by feel trying to "stay within myself" so that I could complete the rest of my planned rides for the holiday.

    Sunday was a 48 mile recovery ride. Cool and flat along the coast with some clubmates.

    Monday was a 100 mile ride with two friends with some moderate climbing. Of course, the hottest part of the day was during those climbs (just before the halfway point) and I was wondering how I was going to finish the ride. Fortunately, a stop at a 7-11, some cold water, and ice in both waterbottles revived me significantly (and surprisingly).

    I haven't had this kind of muscle soreness in a long time and it's probably a good thing that I pushed myself this hard as I've been on a bit of a performance plateau. Of course this is a highly un-scientific way to train and I am going on a combination of rudimentary training data and feel.

    Also, a teammate found an interesting training plan on velonews.com to mimic all of the TdF stages. I am kind of using it as a guide for a 3-week block of training (http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/...nt/2011-tdf-tp). I intend to throw in a 100 mile ride during each of the three weeks of the TdF (1 down, 3 to go). Did I mention that I am also going to try being gluten-free as part of my pre-nationals weight-loss program?

    "Weigh-in" with your opinion on any of my plans as you see fit.
    Thanks.
    Cleave
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  23. #998
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleave View Post
    Hi,

    I can barely walk today. Stairs are especially painful going up AND down.

    Packed in a little over 200 miles of training in 3-days. Saturday was about 58 miles with 6K ft of climbing in 90F weather. Forgot to put on my HR transmitter so my exertions were by feel trying to "stay within myself" so that I could complete the rest of my planned rides for the holiday.

    Sunday was a 48 mile recovery ride. Cool and flat along the coast with some clubmates.

    Monday was a 100 mile ride with two friends with some moderate climbing. Of course, the hottest part of the day was during those climbs (just before the halfway point) and I was wondering how I was going to finish the ride. Fortunately, a stop at a 7-11, some cold water, and ice in both waterbottles revived me significantly (and surprisingly).

    I haven't had this kind of muscle soreness in a long time and it's probably a good thing that I pushed myself this hard as I've been on a bit of a performance plateau. Of course this is a highly un-scientific way to train and I am going on a combination of rudimentary training data and feel.

    Also, a teammate found an interesting training plan on velonews.com to mimic all of the TdF stages. I am kind of using it as a guide for a 3-week block of training (http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/...nt/2011-tdf-tp). I intend to throw in a 100 mile ride during each of the three weeks of the TdF (1 down, 3 to go). Did I mention that I am also going to try being gluten-free as part of my pre-nationals weight-loss program?

    "Weigh-in" with your opinion on any of my plans as you see fit.
    My weigh-in is admiration! Wow, Cleave.
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  24. #999
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Cleave, Since you are in SoCal, you may want to check with AZT's hot 20 something coach. Supposedly, she is an expert at thigh soreness and could check the depth of the pain.

    And while she checked your thighs, you could discuss the criss cross and over under workouts.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

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    This morning was a big day at the track as many were there tuning up for districts. I had a chase the motor workout. We roll along a few mph and at the back stretch, the motor accelerates and my job is to stay on his wheel for 500 meters and his job is not to let me catch him. i was definitely underpowered compared to the motor.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

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