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  1. #101
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleave View Post
    Hi,

    Even when I lived in the Northeast, my rule was no riding if it was below 25F. Colder than that was reserved for running or skiing. However, back then, we didn't have all of this high tech, cold weather clothing.
    Cleves,

    I do have the proper clothing. I wore a base layer, LS Under Armor heat gear, my team jacket, short sleeve team wind breaker, Pearl Izumi heavy tights, wool socks, shoe covers,Head Sweat fleece skull cap and winter gloves. For hydration I put one bottle in my back pocket and had A 50oz Camelback under the wind breaker with the hose running under my arm. About 1:45 into the ride I changed gloves for a dry pair.

    I didn't feel like I had too much on and was never hot or cold, I could have skipped the wind breaker but wore it to keep the Camelback from freezing, a problem I had several times recently. Putting the Camelback under the jacket was too confining and I would have had to leave the zipper down some. As it turned out I needed to hide the head inside the windbreaker as exposing it just 2" was allowing it to freeze.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  2. #102
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Here are a couple of pics from yesterday's 3 hour ride. This is a section of road that has a 3 to 4% grade that provides a nice climb in the red woods with very few cars. The road was wet and very slick on the descent. The descent was not a lot faster than the climb.



    Iphone self portrait...

    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  3. #103
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Does Coach know you are stopping during training rides to take pictures? Tsk tsk....

    But then I'm guilty as charged. I saw a Peregrine Falcon hunting Saturday and had to stop and watch.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  4. #104
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    Does Coach know you are stopping during training rides to take pictures? Tsk tsk....

    But then I'm guilty as charged. I saw a Peregrine Falcon hunting Saturday and had to stop and watch.
    One of the advantages of training with power, is that the coach can see the data on Training Peaks that will show any stops. He will not know why. My wife put the pics on Facebook so he also knows why we stopped.

    BTW, one stops at the top of a climb and coasts down. Therefore, with most climbs, there is a break with no power for several minutes.

    In the old days, after a climb, the coast down the mountain resulted in my legs turning to concrete - especially if it was cold. When I tried to pedal, they did not want to move. Today, they respond much better but it still takes some spin before they feel like producing power.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  5. #105
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    Here are a couple of pics from yesterday's 3 hour ride. This is a section of road that has a 3 to 4% grade that provides a nice climb in the red woods with very few cars. The road was wet and very slick on the descent. The descent was not a lot faster than the climb.
    I would have been crawling down that hill. I'm a total wuss when it comes to downhill turns, and with water or gravel, I practically stop.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  6. #106
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Doing pedal technique work using a DVD that coach provided is really starting to help my cadence. I can crank it much faster now without getting bumpy in the saddle, and my normal cadence is up quite a bit. My cadence as I am warming up has become my primary clue to how fresh I am for a ride. When I'm feeling good, the cadence is much higher without having to even think about it. If I'm tired for whatever reason (or if it is really cold), I have to push it up.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  7. #107
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegheny Jet View Post
    I inquired last week and they said it was scheduled to be built before the weekend. Hopefully I'll recieve it in short order. A PT could have shown that I was hitting it harder than my HR monitor was reading due to conditions.
    When is the big day?
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  8. #108
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    When is the big day?
    The wheel set with PT came today. I put tires on the wheels, set up the head (somewhat) and did my 2 hr training ride. It was raining and 34 degrees tonight so I rode on the trainer. I had to do 2 hrs with a 1:35 Z3 interval in the middle. I still have to load the software on the computer and then load my first data.

    I've got a lot to learn.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  9. #109
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegheny Jet View Post
    The wheel set with PT came today. I put tires on the wheels, set up the head (somewhat) and did my 2 hr training ride. It was raining and 34 degrees tonight so I rode on the trainer. I had to do 2 hrs with a 1:35 Z3 interval in the middle. I still have to load the software on the computer and then load my first data.

    I've got a lot to learn.
    Is your coach going to start sending you workouts based on power?
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  10. #110
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    Is your coach going to start sending you workouts based on power?
    He will once I get the system up and running. I developed my first file but I can't seem to be able to copy and send it to my coach. This is all new and I'll need to learn some new things about computers, files and data. I believe there are online places to send the files that I'll need to research.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  11. #111
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegheny Jet View Post
    He will once I get the system up and running. I developed my first file but I can't seem to be able to copy and send it to my coach. This is all new and I'll need to learn some new things about computers, files and data. I believe there are online places to send the files that I'll need to research.
    I have a special training peaks account that I log into via my WKO software. Once uploaded, Training Peaks sends an email to the coach with key metrics and a narrative I provide. He can then download the data file. An alternative is to email him the data file from the WKO software. I believe that is a choice from the menu.

    To use the software and power training, you will have to determine your functional threshold power. This can be done by doing an FTP test or by a couple of other means. If you have Training and Racing with a Power Meter, they discuss how to do it. FTP is a very tough standard and is the power one can produce at a constant rate for one hour. If you want to enter a somewhat arbitrary number, I would suggest 240 to 260 watts. If you determine it is higher or lower than you can adjust it. It is better to err on the lower side otherwise your workout will be too hard. 300 watts is a lot of power and 10 watts is a big increment. Have fun!
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  12. #112
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Hermes, I will have to determine how to store and relay the info. What is WKO?, another software other than the software supplied by the PT manufacturer.

    I will discuss with my coach the method he wants me to determine the FTP. For last night's 2:03 workout I averaged 226 watts and for the 1:35 hr Z3 interval I averaged over 243 watts. For a 1 hour test I know that the number would be higher but I have know idea how much since I was in mid to upper Z3 during the interval. My HR did climb to around 150 during the last 15- 20 minutes as I was trying to keep the same cadence throughout the interval.

    Like I've stated this old boy has some learning to do.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  13. #113
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegheny Jet View Post
    Hermes, I will have to determine how to store and relay the info. What is WKO?, another software other than the software supplied by the PT manufacturer.

    I will discuss with my coach the method he wants me to determine the FTP. For last night's 2:03 workout I averaged 226 watts and for the 1:35 hr Z3 interval I averaged over 243 watts. For a 1 hour test I know that the number would be higher but I have know idea how much since I was in mid to upper Z3 during the interval. My HR did climb to around 150 during the last 15- 20 minutes as I was trying to keep the same cadence throughout the interval.

    Like I've stated this old boy has some learning to do.
    Here is a link to the software http://home.trainingpeaks.com/wko-de...ing-files.aspx IMO, it is worth the money.

    When you load the WKO software, you will input an FTP and weight. You will upload data from your PT into WKO. You can select the power zones you want based upon your favorite guy - Coggan, Friel and etc. I use Coggan.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  14. #114
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Hermes - So it's worthwhile to use both WKO+ and TrainingPeaks? From searching the Watts list, it's clear WKO+ provides things Trainingpeaks doesn't, like quadrant analysis. I had already subscribed to TP when I got my coach, or I could have been on her Pro account. Instead, I used the feature where you provide your coach access to your own account. I upload my Garmin data with the TP "Device Agent", and it automatically goes into the planned workout based on date and time, so you see planned vs. actual, etc. I didn't realize WKO+ linked into TP; that sounds pretty slick.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  15. #115
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    Hermes - So it's worthwhile to use both WKO+ and TrainingPeaks? From searching the Watts list, it's clear WKO+ provides things Trainingpeaks doesn't, like quadrant analysis. I had already subscribed to TP when I got my coach, or I could have been on her Pro account. Instead, I used the feature where you provide your coach access to your own account. I upload my Garmin data with the TP "Device Agent", and it automatically goes into the planned workout based on date and time, so you see planned vs. actual, etc. I didn't realize WKO+ linked into TP; that sounds pretty slick.
    I do not know all the features of the web based power analysis tools on TP. I like the client software and data residing on my computer. For example, I had about 6 weeks of data before I met the coach last year. I gave him a computer stick of the data and he copied it into his computer. He looked over some key races and set my FTP. He then set up an account user name and password. He pays TP for the service.

    The interesting feature of the WKO are the two boxes for athlete comments. One is for the goal and the other is about the ride. I fill in the goal which TP sends me. For example... 2 hour ride with 4x10 z4. In the comment box, I summarize the four efforts. I then provide a qualitative assessment of how I felt during the efforts by using a matrix designed by him.

    When I upload the data to TP, it generates an email to him showing key metrics and my comments. So he gets that long before he sits down at the computer and logs into TP. I have a complete one season data set on my hard drive of workouts, results and impressions plus races.

    My wife does this as well and she is into the TP diet program and is logging everything she eats along with body metrics such as BP, HR, sleep and etc.

    If you have any inclination toward this type of data keeping and manipulation, I recommend getting your head into the guts of power training and wko. I think it is fun and you will learn a lot that IMO will help your cycling.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  16. #116
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    I got on the trainer over lunch and the maids showed up early. i had to get off and quickly clean up. I ended up with 15 and 10 instead of 3x15. I will make up for it tomorrow.
    Last edited by Hermes; 01-20-11 at 08:50 AM.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  17. #117
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    ATR, Looking over my web based Training Peaks account and tools, it does not have most of the key tools in WKO. It is missing the mean maximal power computations, power distribution graphing and the performance manager based upon TSS. http://www.peaksware.com/articles/cy...ent-chart.aspx And there is no user graph showing actual power, HR, elevation, cadence and etc versus time.

    If you are doing HR training, there is no training stress score associated with it. To get a proxy of a TSS, one would have to assign a level of effort to the duration of the HR and then multiply the two together to get some type of score. WKO does all this for you and uses power. So if you are averaging 200 watts for 30 minutes, WKO will calculate a training stress score. The base line score is riding one hour at threshold power. That will equal a score of 100. Since the FTP used in unique for the rider, two riders can score 100 but be a completely different levels of fitness. Contador's TSS of 100 will have an FTP associated with it of maybe 450 watts while a Cat 3's 100 TSS may have 300 watts. Both riders score the same and the training load will be the same for each rider.

    For example, if I go on a fast 3 hour group ride, I will have a TSS of 175. But I will not have a lot of time in z4. It will be mostly z1/z2 sitting in, with some z3 and z4 and some huge z5/z6 efforts for me. The huge z5 and z6 count more toward a higher TSS than the same time in z3/z4. So even though a lot of the time, I am not working very hard, the tough efforts drive up the TSS and make me very tired and sore.

    I really like the graphs and data presentation in WKO. I like the mean maximal power curve for the day and the 28 day rolling average it provides in the summary. The mean maximal power curve is a compilation of your best efforts on the ride. So when you mouse over the curve, you get the power. So I mouse over the 3 minute time and it displays my best power for the day. I can do that for any time. So if I am doing z5 intervals, the mean maximal power curve will have a discontinuity at 5 minutes and show the best average power for all the intervals I did for the day. On the summary page, I can change the rolling 28 days and look at an entire season. The shape of the mean maximal power curve is indicative of the type of racer i.e. sprinter, TT, climber and etc.

    If you have that in the web based training peaks account, and are only missing quadrant analysis then that is great. My web based TP does not.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  18. #118
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    I downloaded WKO last night so I could get familiar with it and be ready when the Quarq arrives. I loaded all my data in, some as a download from my TP account, but most of it directly from my Garmin, which still has everything it has ever recorded (got it last September). I could only download a week at a time from TP, but could load everything at once directly from the Garmin. Loading from TP includes my diary entries, while loading from the device obviously doesn't. But I suspect my 'diarying' will still be done in TP. So my workflow will likely be to load into TP the way I always have, then download from there to WKO. Maybe it will work the other way, which is what it sounds like you do? Entering everything using WKO, then communicating that to your coach via TP? I haven't seen where that is possible for me, but I'm just starting to find my way with the software.

    I do have performance manager in TP. It calculates TSS using TRIMP heart rate methodology, so I can see my trends in CTL, ATL, and TSB. I don't get the Intensity Factor WKO provides, but I'm not seeing that in WKO either right now, probably because it will only do it using power, rather than HR. I'll play with WKO some more tonight.

    I think the big challenge for me will be to not get TOO caught up in the data; to remember it's all about the riding.

    Speaking of which, this morning I did hill repeats on the way to work. 1-2 minutes in a higher gear, at 60-70 cadence. I did them on every hill enroute, and 4 extra repeats on a hill just off my route. Total of ~8 reps. After yesterday's trainer session, with 45 minutes in z3 at a moderate cadence, my legs definitely feel worked today.

    Tomorrow is recovery day, and only 50 miles Saturday, as she wants me rested heading into her vist the following the weekend.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  19. #119
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Today's ride just, well... sucked. I was in a bad mood, for the first time in forever, and thought the 50 miler would cure that. Instead, I faced bad air (hard to hold your breath and pedal!), bad pavement, and a run of red lights on the way back that was not to be believed. The light would change as I approached, and I'd have to ask myself.. "Really!?!?!" Was low on sleep to top it off, so I had to keep telling myself to get the cadence and HR up where they belonged.

    Oh well, enough whining.

    No, wait, one more whine...

    I WANT MY POWER METER TO ARRIVE!!!!!!

    Okay, there, I'm done.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  20. #120
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    I was supposed to ride 2.5 hours high cadence today on the XC or mtb. It was 14 degrees with snow and ice on the side of the roads so I took the mtb intending to hit some trail along the way. The snow was too deep to ride the trail so I just stayed on roadways. I cheated and only rode for 2hr and 20 minutes.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  21. #121
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    Hey all you racing guys - check out these two flicks if you want a good laugh. Kinda reminds me of the vids AJet was making. I didn't make 'em, I just stumbled across 'em while surfing.

    Be warned...these are XXX rated so if you have sensitive ears or are under 18 do not click on the link. They are sequential, so watch them in order.

    #1 : http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6694173/

    #2 : http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6705475/
    Last edited by Louis; 01-23-11 at 10:53 PM.

  22. #122
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Louis View Post
    Hey all you racing guys - check out these two flicks if you want a good laugh. Kinda reminds me of the vids AJet was making. I didn't make 'em, I just stumbled across 'em while surfing.

    Be warned...these are XXX rated so if you have sensitive ears or are under 18 do not click on the link. They are sequential, so watch them in order.

    #1 : http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6694173/

    #2 : http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6705475/
    Nice Louis! How does one just stumble across this kind of stuff?
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  23. #123
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    "You ride your bicycle, and I ride my pool cleaner... " ROFL
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  24. #124
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    house cleaners, pool cleaner... is this Hermes?
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  25. #125
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    My maids are downstairs maids, not upstairs.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

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