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  1. #1626
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegheny Jet View Post
    It also gets easier once you become more familiar with race dynamics and are able to process what is going on up ahead and are prepared for the "big push". Watching ahead could also enable you to close gaps without much effort if you see the bunch forming up the road. You can kill yourself to close a gap coming out of a turn only to slam on the brake because the leaders sat up. Every extreme effort you save is one left for when it counts later on. Once out of big efforts and you are most likely off the back, save a couple big efforts and you might be racing for the field sprint.
    More good tips, and I appreciate them. I had that happen a couple of times, when I pushed hard just before everyone sat up and started taking drinks. :/

    My limiting factor in this crit right now, physically, appears to be my HR and lungs. My legs never gave out, but my HR was through the roof, I was gasping for breath, and my mouth had dried up so much I couldn't swallow without taking a sip. And sips were tough to grab going flat out in the drops for so long. The course has a rise leading to turn 1, then it drops down into turn two, with a long flat section to turn 3. When things are calm, people ease up a little going up to preserve strength, accelerate going down, and maintain that on the flat. When it heats up, they are flying up the incline, powering hard back down, and attacking leading up to turn 3. The last couple of times doing this course, my legs would give out when we were pushing it hard on the rise. I couldn't match the pace. I did much better on that this week. I had the legs and pace; I just couldn't breathe after a few laps of that!
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  2. #1627
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    My riding and training is not as exciting as cyclocross and restoration season criterium practice. I am in the full off season recovery period. And unlike most, I prefer the harder training of the full on race season and look forward to the races. I attended a presentation on nutrition at our club meeting about the changes required in the diet between the race and restoration season. I will sum it up for you... eat less when you are riding less and not racing. Hydration was a key topic of discussion and nothing has changed... drink often and early and try to stay ahead of the curve. Of course, one can overdo it but that is typically not the problem.

    I purchased a Contour HD camera for my bike so as I am cruising around restoring my fitness, I can capture some video. It will also work well for skiing. You will be spared the video for a least a couple of weeks.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  3. #1628
    Don't mince words Red Rider's Avatar
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    My riding is boring -- LSD rides, and only 3-4/wk. My focus is on running as in 4 wks. I'll be competing in the Big Sur 1/2 Marathon. All well and good, mostly, as in between the running days I ride.

    The last 2 wks. have been a challenge as far as riding goes, as we're down to 1 car and I'm the designated driver for 2 people. C_gallagh is now cleared to drive, 2 wks. post op for a clavicle fracture/repair. The raiiny evening I brought him home after his surgery, drugged out of his gourd, our daughter was in a traffic accident that wrecked our '92 4Runner. She's fine, just shaken up. He's recovering nicely, even rode his bike 41 mi. on Sunday (if the surgeon knew he'd have a cow).

    So there have been some major adjustments to all our lives here and having a different goal has helped me to cope.

    The days I ride hold a certain satisfying sweetness for me that I have not found in any other sport.
    When my feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh, *****, she's awake!"

    Visit my blog.

  4. #1629
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    My rides are also boring, although I did go out and climb on Tuesday just so I could suffer ;~0. I'll ride tomorrow, too, but not terribly far or hard because I have a 10K race on Saturday. I'm working on finishing the half marathon in four weeks, too. Since my last triathlon my concentration has been on running and that half marathon. Frankly, the thought of running that distance (actually it's the length of time you have to run) is mildly terrifying, but I'm certain I can finish it. Interestingly, when I have ridden, I've ridden well. I ride faster than I used to, and my climbing has improved. I can carry my sprints over a longer distance, too. Is it the running? Maybe.

    There will be no off season let-up for me. I just can't slow down, but then I'm no where near as disciplined as you boys are. I do have some hard decisions to make as to where I want to focus. It will be cycle-centric, and there will be three triathlons next season. For cycle only competition, I need to decide if I want to go to the track, or do road races and time trials. I'd love to try a criterium, but the idea of crashing (which to me is inevitable) at those speeds just scares the bejesus out of me. I think I'd be wiser to watch a crit, not ride one!

    RR, I totally get the sweetness. Totally!
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  5. #1630
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Suffering is good for the soul (and fitness). You sound like me, Sara, in that I'm riding only a few hours per week, and feeling pretty darned fast. It's like a race taper every week right now. But there is only so long that will last. So the theory goes, anyway. There ARE authors out there who recommend only a few hours of high intensity each week, without the base. I'm not buying it, however, so I formally start long base on 11/5, with the Bull Shifters Heart of Arizona Century. 104 miles, with lots and lots (and did I say lots?) of climbing. Coach and I are 'debating' how much of it should be kept in z2. The charity ride I'm doing Sat will be 55 miles of easy base.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  6. #1631
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    There are theories, authors (with credentials), kibitzers (me) and know oneself. "Know yourself, Odysseus, know yourself! For a man to conquer himself is the first and noblest of all victories".

    Most racers at this time of the season are at the top of their game - all is possible. How long can this reality last? Most of the lectures I have attended on yearly planning indicate that we peak in 6 months and then begin to lose fitness. I have found this to be true for me.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  7. #1632
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    I concur with the 6 month window Hermes. I did some Z4 intervals on the trainer this evening due to the monsoon we have been under. The watts produced were not what I would have done a few months ago. I'm trying to keep a little in the tank for the few cross races I'm doing this fall.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  8. #1633
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    I don't know when I peaked, or if I even did. That crash sort of threw things asunder for me.

    I was thinking this morning while I was running that I'm competitive, but that I don't have the ability, skills, or experience. What a dilemma! Oh, well. I run and ride anyway. Maybe lightning will strike me and come out the other end as Sara(h) Hammer....
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  9. #1634
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Look at it this way, Sara(h). As newbie competitors, we are able to train up that ability and skill very rapidly. Coming from nothing, we progress so rapidly that our experience literally multiplies, and we constantly set personal bests. I'm always telling myself, as I do a ride/race for the first time, "Well, I know it will be a personal best!" Then I try to beat it the next time out, and generally do, because I am getting better quickly. I'm sure you are too. So, let's both head out and challenge ourselves by riding with those that already have the experience and skill. And when we finish and someone asks "How was your ride?", we can tell them, with big smiles on our faces, that we totally got our ass kicked.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  10. #1635
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    AzT, you're on!!!
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  11. #1636
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    Yesterday gym workout - core and back no bike. Today, trainer workout, pedaling drills 1:15 z2.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  12. #1637
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    Hello all,
    I'm new to bikeforums. I just came across this thread and thought that I might join in the conversation. I race the SCNCA crit series in the masters 60+ category. I'm actually 66 but there aren't many 65+ races. Hope you will let me join in the conversation here.

  13. #1638
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Welcome coachloren, please jump right in. Crits: you love 'em or hate 'em I think. Several of us here love 'em. I'm figuring that I'm going to hit the 60+ category at full stride, since I'll have had three years of experience and training at that point. Glad to have you here!
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  14. #1639
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Hey Jet - do I remember right that you have a set of Williams wheels? Easier to ask than to look through the whole thread. If I'm right, have you had any issues with them?

    I'm considering a set of their 38 carbon clinchers, to use for training, and for the rare occasions when there is too much wind in a race for my 58 tub's. My training wheels add over a pound of weight, are non-aero, and handle differently. Not bad; just different. They aren't as "live" as the tub's. When I strap the racing wheels on, I have to get used to the added quickness in the turns. Given I am constantly challenging myself by choosing rides where I'm barely hanging on, (or not, as the case may be), my thinking is that improving my wheels to get some aero goodness and less weight, while preserving my flat self-sufficiency, might be a good investment. It's not like I need the weight to add to my workout, since for me, the struggle is always to keep the power output reasonable and still hang onto the group. One of my primary goals is to improve my efficiency, so getting everything aero, even during training, seems like a good approach.

    I'll now wait for you guys to adjust my thinking, as needed.

    I'm also going to post in the (gasp!) 41 to see who has the 38's and what they think of them.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  15. #1640
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Welcome Coachloren, On the road, I race in the 55+ peloton. The NCNCA has 35+ 45+ and 55+ age categories for masters. I race at Hellyer velodrome and on occasion the Home Depot Center in Carson, CA.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  16. #1641
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Did a 55 mile charity ride today, and rode to the start and back, so I got in 80 miles of z1-2.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  17. #1642
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    I just looked the 38's up. That's a great price for a set of carbon wheels. I have seen a few of them around at the SoCal crits but no comments. Are you using any kind of a power device?

  18. #1643
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    I use a Quarq PM, so, no affect on wheel choice.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  19. #1644
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    I use a Quarq PM, so, no affect on wheel choice.
    Excellent. I'm currently using a power tap. I'm waiting for the Vector pedal setup from Garmin to come out.

  20. #1645
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    I suggest talking with Keith at Williams Wheels. He is the owner and very helpful. I own the Williams System 30s. I wanted the metal braking surface for use in the mountains for a couple of reasons. I like to descend slower and brake more and sometimes the roads are wet and the carbon braking is not as effective as alloy. According to Keith, if you brake carbon wheels too hard and long, they can delaminate. My choice was not about money but how I would use them.

    The 38s are rated at 200 pounds max. I would discuss your weight and riding style with Keith.
    Last edited by Hermes; 10-24-11 at 07:48 AM.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  21. #1646
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    AzTR,

    I have Williams 58 carbon tubs and have had no issues racing on them for 2 seasons. My son also has a pr and even uses them for cross racing. My son also purchased a set of Williams 38 Klinin's from Keith Williams. He did has some issue with the freehub which was replaced my Williams. My 38's are Psimets and have Kinlin rims and the Power Tap. Can't help with 38 carbons.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  22. #1647
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    I ran a 10K race yesterday. I spent most of the time in Z4 with some efforts up to Z5. Max heart rate was 156, averaging 149. That's up there for me, but there's still room. I finished at 58:28, running 9:20 or so miles, with some sprint kick left at the finish. That's not fast; I didn't leave enough out on the course. I still don't know how to pace! I placed unofficially 214 out of over 500. The gals who podiumed in my age group ran the race in 48 minutes and change. Ten minutes faster than me! Still, I felt good, it was a glorious day, beautiful and inspiring to run in the redwoods, and the event was terrific. They had live music - a classical quartet, a bagpipe troupe and a jazz band - at points along the route! Too cool! Next, the half marathon! Today is a 60 mile ride (recovery ride?) with a good friend.

    Have fun today, ya'll!

    Oh - welcome to the group, Coachloren! It's good to have you here!
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  23. #1648
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Sara, Are you following a training plan for running that uses HR? Just a point, if you don't already know, is that you can maintain a higher HR running than cycling due to the need for additional blood flow to the upper body and core. Breaking the 1 hr mark and beating 3/5 of the other runners is a nice run BTW! Congrats!!! Even more important in running is the need for intervals at speeds faster than race pace. That is the only way to lower the average mile pace. However, this is a cycling forum and I'll just try to sit on my track and field coaching experience and not go there.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  24. #1649
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    2:45 hour z2/z3 ride with my wife that included a 10 minute SST interval on the TT course.

    Next Saturday, I am doing a low key hill climb. http://lowkey.djconnel.com/2011/week5/ In 2009, I did several of these and they were a lot of fun. This climb is 4.56 miles 4.56% grade with about 1/2 mile of 9% grade.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  25. #1650
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegheny Jet View Post
    Sara, Are you following a training plan for running that uses HR? Just a point, if you don't already know, is that you can maintain a higher HR running than cycling due to the need for additional blood flow to the upper body and core. Breaking the 1 hr mark and beating 3/5 of the other runners is a nice run BTW! Congrats!!! Even more important in running is the need for intervals at speeds faster than race pace. That is the only way to lower the average mile pace. However, this is a cycling forum and I'll just try to sit on my track and field coaching experience and not go there.
    AJ, thank you!

    Yes, I know this is "cycling", but I have a connection. I started running to train for the first triathlon I did a little over a year ago. I discovered that the running improved my cycling. I turned from a "non-climber" to a mediocre climber. As I progressed in my running to distance events, I found that my sprinting on the bicycle really started to improve, as did my endurance.

    I'm not coached, I do it all ad-hoc. I've been told that I need sprint intervals to increase my average speed over distance, but I was also told to "slow down" to increase distance (half marathon coming up). I did slow down, and now I can't speed up! But, that's not important right now, being able to run for two hours straight is.

    AJ, a year ago I wouldn't have thought I could ride a metric century much less a full century. In fact, I'd bonk more often than not on my daily 18 mile fitness ride. Getting smart - learning nutrition, pacing, and starting to run (cross training) really brought me to where I am now (dead-last-average!).

    Yes, I use HR. I have really no other benchmark. I do know that my heart rate is on the order of 10 - 20 BPM higher for a given effort in running vs. cycling, I just didn't know why. I do know that I can raise my average heart rate to a level higher than it is now in both disciplines, and it wouldn't hurt me a bit to do that. I still do not know what my limits are. As I said, I am not as disciplined as you fellas are, and I'm not as apt to read a book on the subject as I am to go to spin classes and get yelled at (that starts next week, actually!). That method, "tough love", makes much more of an impression on my little brain than print matter does!
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

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