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  1. #201
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    I was 172 this morning with a BP of 122/76 and resting HR of 61. I slept okay but woke up early. I am definitely fatigued. Training camp = success.
    The 172 is a measure of what exactly? Your TSS? And when you say you are fatigued, is that overall, or just your legs? I'm asking because I'm starting to press harder, and it is looking like maybe my HR isn't responding to degree it has. I did z4 trainer intervals this morning, felt I pushed as hard as I did one week ago, but my HR didn't get up to z4 as quickly, or for as long, as last week's same workout. I'm not sure whether that means I'm hitting my training limit, or whether I'm making progress. I'm having a call with Coach about it this afternoon.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

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    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    The 172 is a measure of what exactly? Your TSS? And when you say you are fatigued, is that overall, or just your legs? I'm asking because I'm starting to press harder, and it is looking like maybe my HR isn't responding to degree it has. I did z4 trainer intervals this morning, felt I pushed as hard as I did one week ago, but my HR didn't get up to z4 as quickly, or for as long, as last week's same workout. I'm not sure whether that means I'm hitting my training limit, or whether I'm making progress. I'm having a call with Coach about it this afternoon.
    172 = weight. My resting HR is higher than normal and yesterday I felt it took more effort to produce the same power. HR seemed lower. Physically, I do not feel tired per se and my legs feel okay, but I know by experience that after 3 hard days in a row, I could ride today but it would be really hard to make power.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  3. #203
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Second crit was this evening. I sat in the pack this time, just making sure nobody broke and I didn't get dropped. I could have been more aggressive in the last couple of laps, as I had some energy but finished at the back of the front group. Less wind and a straighter course, so faster:

    5.5 miles
    14:47 duration
    328 Normalized Power
    312 Avg Power
    22.5 Avg Speed
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  4. #204
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Nice job staying up with the leaders at the race AZTallRider. You will learn more every time you race and find out there is a lot that you would do different.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  5. #205
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    I got out on the road this evening for a 2 hr ride with a 1:45 Z3 interval. Started out in daylight and finished the last hour in the dark. The snow is melting but the roads were dry and surprisingly clean. Using the PT allowed me to ride the Z3 interval using power to gauge the intensity. My average HR for the interval was 138 bpm which is 3 bpm's lower than my Z3 rate. A month ago I went out on the road to do a similar workout and blew up 1 hr into the interval using HR. Today while riding the Z3 interval my HR was reading upper Z2 on the HR scale. The failure workout was probably due to my pushing the pace to get the HR up into the 140's which would have been a mid-Z4 pace today. I rode at a nice hard but not aggressive pace and could have picked up the pace at anytime.

    I have been using the PT for 3 weeks now and am getting PR's frequently due to not having a lot of data history. Today I set PR's for 30 min through 120 minutes. The average watts for 30 minutes was 269, 60 minutes = 262, 90 minutes = 258 and 120 minutes which includes WU/WD = 248.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  6. #206
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    AZ, That sounded like a great race and tactics. The primary goal for a cat 5 racer is to learn, be a good wheel, finish with the pack and keep the rubber side down. You get no more points or benefit from finishing 1st or last. The key thing to do in this type of race is watch the field and how they take the corner leading into the final turn and the direction of wind. I like to visualize a winning / placing strategy. If my idea materializes, I go for it. If it does not, I am satisfied with my position and finish.

    Your power is great but high for sitting in on a relative slow race. At the Madera Crit, the average speed for the Cat 5 men was about 26.5 mph and my average power was about 200 watts. I got 10th out of 50. I am not being critical just thinking out loud. Are you in the drops and how is your position on the bike?
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  7. #207
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    You make a great point, Hermes; I was not aero at all. I'm normally in the drops a lot, but nobody else was, so I stayed up, figuring the extra visibility would be good. My geo isn't aggressive compared to the other riders, so when I'm on the hoods, I'm more vertical than everyone else. And since also I'm taller, all that means I'm catching more air. Especially since the guy I was behind the most was a skinny little junior. He was also all over the place with his line, but kept ending up either ahead of, or beside me, for much of the race. Then he suddenly just left the course. Pretty sure he was the same one who almost nailed me the first race trying to take an inside line it was impossible to hold, ending up outside the course. The kid is freaking me out. EVeryone else was steady, and we were communicating (and respecting) inside positions in the corners.

    Also, I was a little rushed making the 5:00 start, with only enough time for a 15 minute warmup. As a result, I forgot to zero the Quarq, and it was much warmer today. So that may have affected my power numbers.

    So next week's goals are to get as aero as I can, and position well for the finish. If I'm feeling strong, I'll be doing both the D (15 minutes) and C (20 minutes) races next week.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  8. #208
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    And since also I'm taller, all that means I'm catching more air. Especially since the guy I was behind the most was a skinny little junior. He was also all over the place with his line, but kept ending up either ahead of, or beside me, for much of the race. The kid is freaking me out. EVeryone else was steady, and we were communicating (and respecting) inside positions in the corners.

    So next week's goals are to get as aero as I can, and position well for the finish. If I'm feeling strong, I'll be doing both the D (15 minutes) and C (20 minutes) races next week.
    One tactic I use in crits is to keep moving up towards the front during the race, then work into the center. Other's will have the same idea and keep moving ahead of me resulting in needing to move up again then again. It's sort of like a crowded rolling pace line. The result is that when inside the pack it is very easy to ride due to the huge draft. Later in the race when riders become tired only the strongest stay at the front and the weaker riders stay at the rear to conserve what energy they have left and I'm in the middle ready to strike. Moving around the pack also allows me to stay away from riders who I feel threatened by due to their riding style of lack of skills.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  9. #209
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    I think the power numbers for that race are off. When I calibrated this morning, the adjustment was at the outer range of what is expected for the Quarq, at about -500. When I had first calibrated the unit after install, it was -20 something. I had zeroed it several times since then, but not recalibrated. I think a 30 adjustment equates to about 10 watts, so there is high potential for error if you don't zero during big temperature swings. On this morning's 16 mi commute, I was working on aero position and watching my power (3s avg is what I display). I spent a lot of time in the 22-25mph range, and my power was hovering around 220.

    At my last fitting, the fitter raised my bars 3cm. I haven't yet cut down my stearer tube, and he put some of the spacers back under the bars. I think I'm going to take those spacers out. I'll have a much greater bar drop when I get my racing bike. I might as well get closer to that while I'm doing the training races.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  10. #210
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    AZ, Keep your eye on the Quarq. We have 3 of them and they have all went back for repair and the last one I got for my TT bike had to go back due to failure to hold a calibration. The calibration would drift up as I rode. Jim, at Quarq, said that the cranks need some time to settle in and the new cranks will drift. We calibrate and record our settings at the start of each race / ride. The calibration numbers on our is now the same at the start and the finish. So depending if yours is drifting, you numbers may still be high. However, cruising alone at 22 -25 mph solo is a significant effort. We have very little flat terrain but in general, I use about 180 watts to go 20 mph. At 25 mph it is about 250 watts.

    Keep your eye on the juniors. Last weekend, a junior hooked his handlebar with another in an E3 crit on the upstroke of the pedal, the other racer flipped the junior into the middle of the pack - not good.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  11. #211
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Yesterday, I received my iPhone 4 from Verizon. I was cool before with an Apple MacBook Pro but now I am stinking cool. So far, the phone works really well and no dropped calls. I searched the App store for cycling Apps but most are designed around GPS. Do either of you guys know of any Apps that are interesting and add additional value beyond power measurement via Garmin or other and Training Peaks.

    Initially, I was going to wait until later in the year when Apple releases the next version of the iPhone but my current phone has a problem and I did not want to figure out something else so I pulled the trigger. Also, ATT is talking about charging for data on an as used basis versus having a fixed price with unlimited data transmission. I can see where the data usage will really tax the telco's infrastructure such that each new customer added will cost more than can be recovered over the life of the contract.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  12. #212
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Your coolness overwhelms me. I don't know anything about iPhones and hope to delay the introduction of the product into my pocket for as long as possible, maybe up to 2 yrs.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  13. #213
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    I have an AT&T iPhone 4, after having had a 3. I'm grandfathered in to the unlimited data plan. We now have 5 iPhones in the family, under a family plan. Everyone else has a 2GB limit - there is an AT&T app they use to monitor that.

    The only cycling apps I've found were made redundant when I got my Garmin 5. One iPhone feature that isn't obvious is the ability to 'subscribe' your calendar to your Training Peaks account, so that you can see your scheduled workouts inside the iPhone calendar, along with any other calendar entries you've entered directly. I use that more than the Training Peaks mobile app, although that works nicely as well. I also have my iPhone calendar ties to my work Exchange account, so I can see entries from all three calendars (and email) in one place. I also subscribe my wife's iPhone to my Training Peaks calendar, so she knows when I am riding and when I am depriving my stepdaughter of having a car by driving to work.

    Remember, you aren't totally cool until you install Groupon.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  14. #214
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    AZ, Keep your eye on the Quarq. We have 3 of them and they have all went back for repair and the last one I got for my TT bike had to go back due to failure to hold a calibration. The calibration would drift up as I rode. Jim, at Quarq, said that the cranks need some time to settle in and the new cranks will drift. We calibrate and record our settings at the start of each race / ride. The calibration numbers on our is now the same at the start and the finish.
    I remembered to calibrate at the start and finish of my (short version) commute in this morning. Based on what a Quarq rep has said on the wattage list, there was about 7.8 watts of drift. The drift was 25 units, and 32 units is about 10 watts: 25/32*10 = 7.8
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  15. #215
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    I remembered to calibrate at the start and finish of my (short version) commute in this morning. Based on what a Quarq rep has said on the wattage list, there was about 7.8 watts of drift. The drift was 25 units, and 32 units is about 10 watts: 25/32*10 = 7.8
    The drift should reduce over time.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  16. #216
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    I have an AT&T iPhone 4, after having had a 3. I'm grandfathered in to the unlimited data plan. We now have 5 iPhones in the family, under a family plan. Everyone else has a 2GB limit - there is an AT&T app they use to monitor that.

    The only cycling apps I've found were made redundant when I got my Garmin 5. One iPhone feature that isn't obvious is the ability to 'subscribe' your calendar to your Training Peaks account, so that you can see your scheduled workouts inside the iPhone calendar, along with any other calendar entries you've entered directly. I use that more than the Training Peaks mobile app, although that works nicely as well. I also have my iPhone calendar ties to my work Exchange account, so I can see entries from all three calendars (and email) in one place. I also subscribe my wife's iPhone to my Training Peaks calendar, so she knows when I am riding and when I am depriving my stepdaughter of having a car by driving to work.

    Remember, you aren't totally cool until you install Groupon.
    We are a two iPhone family. My wife has an iPhone 3 on ATT provided by her company. Thanks for the tip on the calendar.

    I was on the iPhone with my BSD stock broker while I surfed the web via my WIFI connection. He turned me on the CNBC App for stocks.

    If I had a hot 20 something SoCal cycling coach, my wife would commission an App to install on my iPhone with a motion detector that turns on the video if I visited LA.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  17. #217
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    If I had a hot 20 something SoCal cycling coach, my wife would commission an App to install on my iPhone with a motion detector that turns on the video if I visited LA.
    Well, it turns out she only -looks- 20 something. She is really 30 something. But I guess from a wife's perspective, that's sort of splitting hairs. I just tell my wife my coach is really short! And I actually AM planning a trip to San Diego, to visit a couple of brothers there (it's my home town), and to do some riding with Coach.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  18. #218
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    I figured out another thing that is driving my power numbers up. I'm no Mario Andretti in the corners, but as whole, this group is clueless about picking a good line and maintaining speed through the corners. We come in too tight, slow down too much, and have to crank it getting back up to speed. I was routinely OTS just getting back up to speed for the longest straight. I suspect the first few riders are doing a better job of it than the main pack.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  19. #219
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    I figured out another thing that is driving my power numbers up. I'm no Mario Andretti in the corners, but as whole, this group is clueless about picking a good line and maintaining speed through the corners. We come in too tight, slow down too much, and have to crank it getting back up to speed. I was routinely OTS just getting back up to speed for the longest straight. I suspect the first few riders are doing a better job of it than the main pack.
    That is normal for crit racing. When I race with the A's in our weekly training race it seems that the pack mentality is that everyone is pissed that the turns slow them down, resulting in an explosive OTS sprint after every turn until they are back up to ridiculous speed again. I don't think you need to worry about the numbers during a race where the power needed is dictated by the race.

    The numbers can show you after wards how the race played out and how you can better prepare for the next one. Your race was fairly short in duration so you should expect a high output of power. If the race lasted 45 minutes the racers would need to conserve some and not just ride anaerobically.
    Last edited by Allegheny Jet; 02-18-11 at 10:35 AM.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  20. #220
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Did my first race of the season at the track - a 2K pursuit. It was horrifically hard but my time was okay for this time of year. I am still coughing 2 hours after the effort. However, the highlight of the day was that two pro soccer teams were hold a cheerleading audition and about 75 totally hot women pro dancers showed up to compete. They were competing on the infield while we raced on the track. Racing does not get any better than this. I will post pics...fasten your seatbelt.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  21. #221
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    My wife and I went on our Sunday 2 hour ride as we feel training ride. Although the Chiva Girls tryouts were fabulous, I did forget my Garmin and it is safely locked away in my locker on my track bike at LAV so I did not have any metrics. I got my power readings vicariously via my wife's power meter. We arrived at the halfway point and stopped for a quick coffee. When I was ready to go, I looked for my helmet and could not find it. After we searched the premises, I realized that I forgot to put it on. It was cold and I had a tight skullcap with earflaps so it felt like I had a helmet on. I wondered why many cyclists were giving me a strange look. I guess they thought Altovelo had a new Euro pro. Hopefully, blood will be returning to my other head so that normal cognitive function will return.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  22. #222
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    My wife and I went on our Sunday 2 hour ride as we feel training ride. Although the Chiva Girls tryouts were fabulous, I did forget my Garmin and it is safely locked away in my locker on my track bike at LAV so I did not have any metrics. I got my power readings vicariously via my wife's power meter. We arrived at the halfway point and stopped for a quick coffee. When I was ready to go, I looked for my helmet and could not find it. After we searched the premises, I realized that I forgot to put it on. It was cold and I had a tight skullcap with earflaps so it felt like I had a helmet on. I wondered why many cyclists were giving me a strange look. I guess they thought Altovelo had a new Euro pro. Hopefully, blood will be returning to my other head so that normal cognitive function will return.
    So I am correct in understanding that you sat on your wife's wheel for the 1st half of the ride while dreaming about your encounter with the Chiva Girls?
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  23. #223
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegheny Jet View Post
    So I am correct in understanding that you sat on your wife's wheel for the 1st half of the ride while dreaming about your encounter with the Chiva Girls?
    We rode side by side and on a rare occasion I took the lead. I asked her if I had my helmet and she did not know. At least, I have stopped coughing from the race.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  24. #224
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    At least, I have stopped coughing from the race.
    I let my college coaches talk me into running an 800m once. I know your pain.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  25. #225
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Back from a trip to Las Vegas to watch a girls volleyball tourney (stepdaughter). Took my bike and did a ride out along the north shore of Lake Mead. Pretty ride, rolling and winding, no traffic to speak of, and with just a bit of rain.

    Starts 3 and 4 are tonight. I'm doing both the D (15 minutes) and C (20 minutes) races. My goals are to be as aero and protected as possible, to stay close to the front, and to be on the outside in the turns when the pack is bunched up. I want to keep my speed in the corners as much as possible, and see if my HR can settle in better than it has so far. Those goals also mean I'll get some good criterium bike-handling experience.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

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