Racer Ex 

Tried that. Got elected to a LA board. President: I'd like to see the books. Person in charge of books: They're fine.

Basically the goal was to perpetuate your position of power. None of the LA boards I've seen have open member elections. Some are completely opaque, can't even find how people get elected to the board on their websites. USAC shovels $20k or more to these organizations with zero oversight.

I did do the mentor gig for several years. Very effective. I've also helped out juniors and high school programs. The latter is way more effective IMHO.

Bandera

Good for you!
Those who have had personal involvement in trying to address USCA/UCI "issues" get to complian about them with substance.

Fire Away!

Heathpack 

@valygrl, I disagree with almost everything you say (except sort of hating Strava, I also sort of hate Strava). Which is just hugely interesting to me, I guess its one of the benefits of interacting in a forum, you get to hear different perspectives.

I personally don't think that women fear failure particularly more than men. Maybe its because I'm in a profession dominated by women. But we do bold things, we take risks, we run the show, we make hard choices, we innovate, we push the envelope, we eat our lunch in the presence of blood and guts. Nobody whines or cries. The stakes are high and women successfully manage that all the time.

So coming from that place, I don't see women as shrinking violets, afraid to race their bikes, afraid to fail. I see women as mostly social cyclists because that's what's available to them. Its like seeing black folks living in public housing projects and deciding "oh, obviously black people just don't like picket fences, that's why they live in public housing."

I was having a beer recently with an unlikely friend of mine, a way younger road racer and I asked him if he remembered the first group ride I did with him way back. He didn't but it was funny, because we were all riding along in a nice orderly double paceline and I was thinking to myself what a piece of cake it was. I didn't realize the pace was slow just because we were on a bike path, then when we got to the road, the pace suddenly picked up and I was off the back. My friend (who was not a friend yet, I had just met him) was the informal ride leader, he came back to get me and told me, "When they go faster, you have to go faster too." Lol, it was funny because I was capable of their pace without any problem, I just wasn't expecting the sudden change and I had no sense of urgency about picking up my pace, I figured I'd just catch up later. You're not born knowing it's unrealistic to think you'll catch the group if you go off the back, someone has to teach you that.

The interesting thing is that I say I sort of hate Strava but it does help me out quite a bit with some of these social aspects on group rides. Why did I get asked over and over and over to join this group ride I've recently started doing? Because these guys who organize it can see my rides on Strava and they respect what I'm doing. So Strava does help connect people appropriately, it has its uses.

And don't get me started on the whole "tri/running/TTs are not real racing" thing. I just don't buy that. Its not racing in a way that makes sense to you. But I guess telling me there's something missing from TTs just doesn't sit too well. I think its just a completely different mindset. You're seeking to execute something perfectly. It has its own strategy. I think what crit and road racers are really trying to express is that they like tactics and the interplay with other people racing. That's great. But it does not mean that races that emphasize other skill sets are not real racing or that something is missing from them. I hear this over and over and over. IMO its just not accurate nor is it helpful to the world of bike racing. Because if you disparage types of racing that don't jazz you personally, the people who are intrigued/engaged by that type of race go off and do something non-USAC, because you really only need USAC for the mass start events.

I also think that women being more concerned by men about safety on solo rides is very reasonable. Women are not small men. There's a little more risk for women riding solo. Not enough to stop you IMO but enough that its worth thinking about.

Voodoo76

I don't have as much issue with Strava as some. It's helped me reconnect with several people I had lost touch with due to moves, life issues and my absence from the sport. We all come from a different place.

You would think a sport dominated by older riders would have no shortage of trainers, mentors, ect. How folks train now has had some impact in my opinion. Highly structured training leaves limited opportunities to bring someone along for the ride. I mean I gotta be at FTP for 20 min!!! Not much JRA these days.

I've had to look in the mirror on this issue. Trying to get myself back in some kind of shape. And My 15 yr old son finally wants to get out and ride with me ( no coincidence, he's attracted to the dedication I'm showing again and the cool gear). I have to greatfully throw the "plan" out the window some days. Rolling around with that dude is way better than a podium!

Hermes

Interesting discussion...

Mass start racing...The Brits decided to focus their attention on time events versus mass start racing when advocating lottery money. Why? Mass start racing has too much of an unpredictable outcome and investment in racers can be gone in a blink of an eye due injury due to a crash caused by others. Smart men.

Racers who say that timed events are not real racing are entitled to their opinion. But it is just that...opinion.

The good news is that both road and track offer mass start and timed event races so everyone can chose whatever floats their boat. And if one analyzes the Tour de France, GC riders who win are great time trialists and climbers ostensibly ride by themselves either on a mountain top finish or time trial to gain time on their rivals. Although, occasionally there are some good head to head finishes for GC racers.

I read and I am re-reading Amy Cuddy's book Presence: Bringing Your Boldest Self to Your Biggest Challenges. She discusses the difference between focusing on the process of doing something and focusing on the result of doing something. People who focus on the process tend to do better than those that focus purely on results.

I love to ride my bike. I love training with structure as it gives me something to do and breaks down larger goals into smaller increments. I focus on process and love the process that culminates in a race. My result in the race can have a wide range of outcomes many that are out of my control. It is not the everyone is a winner mentality because as in life there is only one winner but focusing on the process versus obsessing on results tends to have a better yield and delivers superior results in the long run. I can feel good about myself DFL or first because I love to ride my bike and I love the process.

Results may revise the process or change goals but I feel good about my outcome. I have results. Others that train and only focus on results for self-fulfillment or to define who they are will ultimately be very disappointed since Ws and podiums are very elusive except for select genetically predisposed athletes.

I did a lot of running 10k and I was 7 minute mile guy who could sprint. I was a 400 meter runner in HS - that is a long time ago but nothing has changed over the years. However, I would line up at the 7 minute per mile marker and I always had a great mano a mano race at the end with a few runners.

Is that what people mean when they say everyone is a winner and that my having a great race and fun time somehow inferior to the 4th place finisher that did not make the podium? Do we have to put that guy on suicide watch and take away his belt and shoelaces?

Maybe I was a fool for entering a 10k race in which I had not chance of winning? IMO, I got as much as anyone else who entered that race.

I played a lot of tennis as a kid and got a job teaching tennis at a local park in my teens. When I took my first job, the company had a tennis pyramid. The guy at the top of the pyramid was 40 years old and held that position for a number of years. I was 22 at the time and 40 seemed ancient.

I was supposed to start at the bottom of the pyramid and work my way up but I called him up and challenged him to a match. He asked me who I played against. At the time, I was playing one of the local pros at an indoor tennis club. He said, when you beat him, call me. Pretty funny. A couple of weeks later, I beat the guy and a close match where I played out of my mind.

I called him up and we played. Over the years, we became great friends and had some of the best matches I ever had as a tennis player. He and I entered doubles tournaments and played some great matches in local events. Too much fun. I loved to play tennis and enjoyed the process and the matches. Some results were stellar and some were poor. I did not have to be put on suicide watch.

Men versus women...I see women and men take roles that suit them. How do we get more women to race? Show them the way via leadership. Show them the process and how it works. Create opportunities for them to participate in a process that is a lot of fun. Women are equally capable as men to take anything to a successful conclusion to which they set their mind. Many just do not know how much fun bike racing is and do not see a path how to get there.

Maybe all it takes is to call up the guy on the top of the pyramid and challenge him or her. He/she will tell you the next step.

chasm54

I'm pretty much with @valygrl on this. To get the uncontroversial bit out of the way, I dislike Strava. In fact I only rejoined it to take an interest in @YogaKat's progress. Endless giving kudos to people for nothing much, full of people pretending to compete by being KOM of their own driveway but absolutely clueless about what a real race might involve, it turns me off, rather.

I've had a fair bit of experience introducing women to cycling, and girls to competitive cycling, and both HP and VG have points. There's no doubt in my mind that both men and women are spread along the bell-curve of competitiveness. There is probably a higher proportion of men that are highly competitive. On the other hand, I personally am much less competitive than many women I know, and I raced while they didn't. The big differences are cultural - most girls inhabit a social milieu in which competitive sports aren't cool - and institutional - male-dominated cycling organisations are generally useless at helping women feel comfortable and develop in the sport.

As for TTs and whether they are
"real racing", well, yes they are. I have a lot of respect for good time-triallists because I have some understanding of the pain involved and never had the attention to detail that is required to get good at it. So of course it's real racing. But I confess to regarding it as a bit bloodless compared with crits and road races. It lacks the cut and thrust that makes them compelling.

Racer Ex 

In a crit maybe ten people have a shot at winning and the other 90 sit in the pack but claim they are "racing", content to tell their friends that they finished 11th. How many people can win a real climbing race? Two or three? The rest of the folks are doing something other than racing...

Sound familiar?

In a tri or running race it's no different front to back than a bike race. The only difference is you might get a finisher medal in a tri, and you should if you make it through Ironman or even half of one. But no one who finishes Kona and gets a medal is confusing themselves with Mark Scott or Macca, and if those guys came running by they would get offered a drink and not an elbow. I don't know how many "never finished better than 40th" people I've had try to fight me for a wheel after I've come off a long pull at the front or got pulled back in from a break and then start yelling at me.

I took a flyer in a state crit one year because I knew I couldn't beat the two best sprinters. I got chased down and rolled in towards the back. I overheard some guy saying how he was happy that he beat me. Beat me? He didn't do jack diddly all race and finished 25th.

So maybe tri folks have a better idea where they are in the big picture because, like in a TT, they are where their ability put them. 5 minutes behind one person, 5 ahead of the other.

And FWIW when I finished in the pack in a P/1 race I didn't think I was as good as the guys who won. I was just glad I didn't visit Offthebackistan and if Ivan Dominguez came back and needed a slot, I'd happily move back and let him in.

TT's are who is faster from point A to point B today. Period. Doesn't get much racier than that. Can't beat someone at a TT? You can humiliate them and destroy them mentally.

Go to 6 minutes in:


Or go to 3 minutes in here:


As far as compelling, to me they are. Was there a more exciting race in recent memory at the tour than Lemond beating Fignon by 8 seconds? 25 plus years later folks are still arguing over that one.

Watch the World TT championship in a competitive year and see if the hair doesn't rise up on your neck when you're counting the seconds off that clock. Then look at the faces of first and second. Yeah. I BEAT you. You v. me and I won.

Strava ain't racing. You can game that system a lot of different ways. I can go grab a bunch of KOM's right now.

Bandera

Nice What's point of showing up for a new Cat3-2, 'eh? (I know....hyperbole 'n stuff..)

They are but it's always more than 1 "race" going on, that's why we've been telling development riders that only Racing builds Race skills.
To channel the Old School:

Get out there and Race. You will get dropped (repeatedly) but learning lines, pack dynamics and the sheer speed exists nowhere else.
Coming in 11th or 23rd but winning "your" sprint matters. Building race skills/smarts isn't instant, get better by racing better/smarter/stronger.
Race every discipline of the sport available to you.
Climbing, sprinting and TT-ing to the best of your ability can get you on a podium someday (maybe but probably not).
Only race results matter, and keep your bike clean.

/channeling

-Bandera

Racer Ex 

Don't forget track racing!

Been pushing this out there to a couple of my people. Even if you've got a lot of time under your belt there's ring rust. I think I've done 700+ races and I still need to blow out the cobwebs and still catch little nuances.

I was lucky to come to this sport with a pretty long 2 wheel history. Some of the same tactics that worked in Moto GP work in cycling. High speed chess. And you pay dearly for a lapse of concentration in Moto GP. That focus carried over to cycling as well, including TT's where it's all about partial seconds accumulating.

Only way to really learn high speed chess is to play high speed chess. With that there's no substitute for riding at the front of a race. The sprint for 5th is different than the chess for the win. And winning breaks open the mental barrier of what's possible.

And yes, respect your equipment. The ship was lost for want of a nail.

Bandera

That I could Never do, my coach considered road racing to be a somewhat silly ceremonial promenade decided by the inevitable Sprint at the line.
Wise gnarly old man, he will be missed.

PS: Don't forget Cyclo Cross, the best bike handlers raced 'cross "back when".
Did you know that it sometimes rains on races and only those upright and at the front can contest that inevitable Sprint ?


-Bandera

shovelhd

There's some very interesting stuff here in the last few pages. My opinion, short form. Rob nails it with his blog post. I agree with just about everything VG wrote except the TT thing. I know what she's saying, but there is social interaction before, during, and after an ITT and there certainly is throughout a TTT, it's just different. Finally, I'm a USAC contractor so my value proposition is different than just about everyone else here. It's a far from perfect organization. However, if you want your striped jerseys, is the price you pay for them.

chasm54

But the question is whether the price could buy something better. I know little about USAC, but from what I read here it suffers from some of the same problems that beset British Cycling.

Brailsford (and others) did a great job getting lottery money and investing it in the track team to win medals and massively raise the profile, and the quality, of elite cycling in Britain. So far so good - so very good. But the rigidly controlling, dictatorial, largely unaccountable approach that delivered on that then metatasised into the administration of the sport at amateur and recreational level. BC consists mostly of petty bureaucrats whose arrogance outruns their ability by a factor of ten at least. They are supposedly there to represent the interests of, and develop, the many volunteers who give their time to organise the sport at the grassroots through local clubs, but they use that role not to facilitate but to control. The principal motivation, as far as I can see, is to consolidate their own authority and preserve their own privileged (and far from overworked) positions. Sad, and ultimately rather unproductive.

shovelhd

Of course it could buy something better. Our LA has a surcharge for the first time ever this year, to pay an administrator to manage the schedule and handle rider upgrades. There are two reasons for this. 1. Not enough support from Colorado. 2. Not enough volunteers in the LA. It's always a lot easier to complain.

Hermes

I got called up to supervise a beginner track session at Hellyer this Saturday. The weather should be stellar and we should get a large turnout.

Heathpack 

Sounds delicious.

Hermes

These sessions are a lot of fun. Cyclists show up with varied goals and expectations along with anxieties. Many have not raced or may not want to race but just want to ride on the track because it would be cool to do. Or they are fixed gear street riders who want to try their skills at the track. And we have juniors, men and women of all ages. And some show up just to do the session and get a good workout on their track bike.

One thing I share with all of them is I love to ride my track bike on the track. It is one of the most amazing experiences one can have. Disney would approve.

We work on basic skills with a lot of pace line work and later in the session, I run both mass start and timed races within the limitations of the size of the group and all racing is opt in or out.

Racer Ex 

Nationals, here we come. Flight and hotel booked, registered today. Still no word on where or what the TT course is going to be.

Heathpack 

Nice, Ex.

But how is it that they don't know the TT course yet? Is that normal? Its only 6 or 7 weeks away, right?

Racer Ex 

55 days. USAC only approved their bid a year or so ago, and it's only nationals. It's not like people are flying across the country to race or anything.

valygrl

haha. Kill it, Ex. I won't be there this year.

YogaKat

Timely discussion going on here.

I just watched 'Pantani:The Accidental Death of a Cyclist" then followed that with "Slaying the Badger." Just wow!

chasm54

Yes, well, a pity about Pantani. One of the most exciting riders to watch, it was his misfortune, if you want to be charitable, to be at his peak in the most heavily-doped era of the sport. If you want to reflect on doping, consider that the second-fastest ascent of the Alpe de Huez was by Lance Armstrong, just a couple of seconds behind Pantani's time. And Pantani, as well as being doped to the gills, weighed nearly 20 kg - 40lbs - less than Armstrong. Armstrong's, er, "medical support" was quite something.

As for Hinault, he was one of the very very best, up there on the all-time podium with Merckx and Coppi. A truly extraordinary performer.

shovelhd

Which events? Good luck.

Heathpack 

Crazy day. My simple straightforward surgery was mega confusing. I wound up doing a CT scan, a myelogram, a post-myelogram CT scan, a spinal tap and a negative spinal exploratory surgery. Frustrating. Talked to the husband pre-op and separate conversations post-op with the husband, the wife and the referring veterinarian.

Also today: this guy brings in a German Shepherd for problems walking in the hind legs. The dog has hip dysplasia and but also has symptoms referable his right sciatic nerve, probably a disc herniation causing a pinched nerve. We need to anesthetize the dog for an MRI to be sure and to plan any surgery we might consider.

Then he says: Oh by the way, for over a year now the dog sometimes intermittently passes out and this most recently happened yesterday. He thinks the dog has epilepsy too. That is possible, but we need to start with an EKG. He doesn't want to pay for an EKG. Sorry I won't anesthetize your dog for an MRI until I know if there's something wrong with his heart rhythm.

So he argues with me but does the EKG and guess what? The dog has a heart arrhythmia for which the only treatment is a pacemaker. So he needs to take the dog to see a cardiologist as the next step. The guy doesn't want to see a cardiologist or consider a pacemaker (which I understand) he just wants an MRI.

Oy, Ok, first, I'm not doing that because your dog could die under anesthesia. Second, are you really going to do a spinal surgery based on the results of the MRI when I just told you that your dog has a life-threatening heart condition that you tell me you don't want to treat? Somehow he's all annoyed at me, though, he thinks I'm making a mountain out of a molehill. Sorry, no.

shovelhd

Good for you for standing your ground.