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  1. #3276
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    IF is based on NP, as opposed to AP, or it would definitely mean a change in FTP.

    Did I use enough Acronyms?

  2. #3277
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    No kidding. I only hit numbers like that in races.
    With a multiplication factor of at least x 2
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  3. #3278
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarals View Post
    Chuck! Suck it up, buddy!!!
    Regards,
    Chuck

    Demain, on roule!

  4. #3279
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarals View Post
    With a multiplication factor of at least x 2
    If I had an IF of 1.99, someone we all know and love would get fired.

  5. #3280
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Chuck, Maybe you are a sprinter like me. If I were to use my 5' peak power number to estimate FTP and 20' peak power to estimate FTP, the two FTP's would be quite different.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  6. #3281
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    If I had an IF of 1.99, someone we all know and love would get fired.
    And you would have just ridden in your 30th Tour...

    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  7. #3282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegheny Jet View Post
    Chuck, Maybe you are a sprinter like me. If I were to use my 5' peak power number to estimate FTP and 20' peak power to estimate FTP, the two FTP's would be quite different.
    AJ - Maybe, but I doubt it. I think it has to do with not having done any longer, high effort training rides lately. Tomorrow there's a club TT - five miles. I'm going to slightly truncate tomorrow's workout (two hours endurance pace, with 8x20" speed intervals sandwiched between two, eight minute LT intervals) and use it as a warmup. I'll be doing it Merckx-style, should be in the 14ish minute area. I'm also going to try a lower cadence - ~75 rpm instead of 90+ rpm. It'll be interesting to see how that works out.

    Today - 68 minutes at recovery pace. Couldn't even squeeze any sweat out of the helmet's padding. That doesn't happen very often. TSS 25, IF .47, 423 kj - probably didn't even burn off my bowl of Shredded Wheat and Bran.
    Regards,
    Chuck

    Demain, on roule!

  8. #3283
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    So, I had my follow up fitting on the Giant today. We moved the saddle forward a cm or so, and shifted my cleats back and out a bit. The saddle move is for sure good - we'll have to see on the cleats. The saddle is now at the limit of the scale, with the duo position seat-cap already in it's forward position, but I'm still a little behind the position I had on the Madone. I'm also going to move the brifters up a touch on the bars, as they ended up a tad low when the new bars were installed. I've definitely felt stretched. The saddle move feels better, and the brifter change will effectively bring the bars back a bit more.

    But I'll also be working on relaxing my shoulders, relying on my core, and locking my butt onto the saddle better. I'm riding too stiff-armed, and that is one of the reasons my hips move as much as they did. Not as much as they used to, but enough for an attentive coach to notice and comment on...

  9. #3284
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Day off today, and I needed it. Bruises are changing from purple to, well, a lighter color. The knee is looking really good and feeling okay. Arms are just fine. Mojo is missing.

    But I'll find it (I trust in Shovel!).

    Ex - "treat this as a training race" "don't jeopardize next season" "if you're not 100% don't race"

    AzT - "look long"

    Me - "I'm listening"
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  10. #3285
    Packfodding 3 caloso's Avatar
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    Airport Ride tonight. Windy. Hard. Knackered.
    Cyclists of the world, unite! You have nothing to lube but your chains!

  11. #3286
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    openers - a bit on and off the bike doing them

    2 up tomorrow 45 and 35. then a week until maine

    spin for good measure - new max - 227

  12. #3287
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    In PA at my parents doing some elder care for the weekend. It's still recovery time from the past few weeks of A races. Hope to get out for a couple hrs of JAR but with 350' hills everywhere and a 53/25 I will be pushing the limits of an easy ride.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  13. #3288
    gmt Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
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    I'm getting back on the TT horse

    New bike/position test today gave back two bits of data:

    1. New position is going to take getting used to.
    2. New position is fast. CdA estimates were around .22 without aero helmet or skinsuit

  14. #3289
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Did 50+ of base this morning to check out the fit changes and because I just needed a longer ride than I've done of late. Changes seem good, though I rub my right heel on the chainstay now and then, so I may adjust that cleat a smidgeon. Stretched afterward, and later today or tonight I should have a good idea of how my leg responds. I truly hate being hampered by a nagging issue, unsure whether to ride through it or not. Hopefully these changes will sort that out, as I want to get back to following the TRS, which I've been ignoring (with Ex's agreement). MIGHT do a 40K TT tomorrow, just for training purposes, but at this point the main target is next season. I want to do a RR up in the mountains in a few weeks, but intend to train through it. I just want to get up in the cool air, see the guys and gals, and pretend I'm still a bike racer.

    Ran into a newbie rider who lives a few blocks away, and I did an extended cool down to chat with him and show him the best route home and how to get to and use our local canal. He has lost over 50# in 60 days of cycling, but still has a long way to go, weight wise. He wants to do the "Semper Fi Ride" this fall, which goes from Phoenix through Prescott and over the mountains to Camp Pendleton. 350+ miles in 4 days, with some wicked climbing, because, well, there is this inconvenient mountain range between the desert and the coast. It has a wounded warrior connection, iirc. Quite the goal for your first year, but he is determined, so I'll do what I can to help him along his chosen path.

  15. #3290
    Packfodding 3 caloso's Avatar
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    51 miles on the River Ride this morning. Small field since so many locals were racing at Dunnigan Hills. Fitness is not all the way back, but it's coming back faster than expected. [41]2d on the final sprint.[/41]
    Cyclists of the world, unite! You have nothing to lube but your chains!

  16. #3291
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caloso View Post
    [41]2d on the final sprint.[/41]
    But what was your Strava ranking?

  17. #3292
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    Seems that mileage in the 50s is popular today. I did ~55 at endurance pace, with three 12 second sprint intervals - start at ~25 mph, stand and start the sprint and finish it seated. I found these difficult, though not due to the power required; I'm just not used to standing at that speed while putting out 100+ rpms. Keeping track of the Garmin at that level isn't too easy either, especially during the standing part. I know this is something I need to get used to, I'm just new at this part.
    Regards,
    Chuck

    Demain, on roule!

  18. #3293
    gmt Grumpy McTrumpy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
    I'm getting back on the TT horse
    Today's TT did not throw me off the horse, but came damn close. Violent swirling crosswind, no shoulder, fast cars, holes in the road, not knowing the course, and lots of ups and downs. I was totally tense, scared and had no mojo.

    The new bike and position saved me though. Otherwise the pitiful power I made would have been slower than slow. As it stands, I am highly conflicted about today. Yeah, it was kinda fast but I think that crash ****ed with my head a bit and I didn't really know it until going out and doing another TT.

  19. #3294
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by revchuck View Post
    Seems that mileage in the 50s is popular today. I did ~55 at endurance pace, with three 12 second sprint intervals - start at ~25 mph, stand and start the sprint and finish it seated. I found these difficult, though not due to the power required; I'm just not used to standing at that speed while putting out 100+ rpms. Keeping track of the Garmin at that level isn't too easy either, especially during the standing part. I know this is something I need to get used to, I'm just new at this part.
    Looking at your computer is not conducive to good sprint form, but I understand the desire to do so while training. Using a "Barfly" or one of the other mounts that gets it out in front of the bars helps to see it when standing. And doing the training your doing is clearly what you need to develop the standing Rev's. The high bar around here is I think Gary, who recently spun up at 227 (or was that his watts? , although I suspect that might be seated. Sprinters can usually really spin. Cav won the Sky spinoff during a TdF lay day last year at some ridiculous cadence.

  20. #3295
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy McTrumpy View Post
    As it stands, I am highly conflicted about today. Yeah, it was kinda fast but I think that crash ****ed with my head a bit and I didn't really know it until going out and doing another TT.
    I hear you, Grumpy. Crashes can mess with you mentally, even if you aren't consciously fearful. I'm not afraid of crashing, but I certainly don't want to crash, mostly because crashes threaten continued racing. My one race crash caused me to question my 'radar', since it remains unclear exactly how mine developed. I can't tell myself "don't do 'X' ". Things are rarely so simple, right? Anyway, it took a few crit's to get my mojo back. And that is true anytime I'm away from them awhile, since I don't have years of crit experience on which to rely.

    Glad the fit is fast!

  21. #3296
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    AzTR - Oh, there's no question that I need this. I thought about getting one of those forward mounts this past winter to keep the sweat off the computer while on the trainer, may need to break down and do it.

    No surprise about Cav being able to spin, he's a former trackie. Winning a spin-off at Sky would be impressive anyway, since it's full of former trackies.

    As much as I like my coach, I wish I had a local mentor of sorts at times like this. Trying this stuff from scratch would be so much easier if I had someone to tell me "No, dumbass, like this!"
    Regards,
    Chuck

    Demain, on roule!

  22. #3297
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Fill the fridge with Abitas and I'm there.

    Theres no other way for me to do form sprints at target without looking at the power output. RPE is so variable that if I was on form I'd overshoot it by 200-300 watts. It doesn't take staring at it, just a quick glance after every shift. It helps that I sprint close to the stem, and I do use a Barfly.

  23. #3298
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    I'm gradually getting my head lower when sprinting, but still have a ways to go. Not close to having the sprint be automatic; I have to really focus to get things right, which is tough while also paying attention to the tactical situation. As CDR points out frequently, there are few things as important as being able to go really fast, regardless of whether you sprint for the win or go OTF. Speed will be one of my major off-season goals this year. From my experience thus far, the key seems to be a combination of strength training (on and off the bike), form practice, and of course all out sprints both in training and in races. In addition to just getting faster, I want to increase the distance I can hold that speed. Nothing worse than being nipped at the line.

  24. #3299
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Ex had me doing a lot of form sprints leading up to Menlo Park. I can go fairly fast, but I am clumsy. My shifts aren't smooth and I tend to jerk the bike all over the place. I'll be working on that in the off season. As well as getting up hills better (how many times have I said that?) Oh - I seem to remember a video CDR had on YouTube about working on sprint cadence. He was on a track bike on a trainer and would spin up to 200 RPM+ and hold it for X amount of seconds. I was pretty awed by that!
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  25. #3300
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    My take on sprinting, based on my T & F background and relying on my "sprint" in races is to practice sprinting. You need to know how hard to go from 200, 300, 500, 1K etc... Just like in running a 400 in track if you show the world how fast you can fly down the back stretch they will see you die on the home stretch. Practicing sprinting the different distances allows you to do a measured effort before exploding into no go. Developing top end speed is only part of the sprinter mode. I believe the keys to sprinting are speed, position on the bike, metered effort, reacting to what is happening and most important is being relaxed enough during the effort to make subtle or major changes to the effort.

    My coach has me do various sprint training efforts, all with long recoveries between efforts so I'm fully ready to hit it again. Next Sunday I will be doing sprints from 200, 300, 400, 500 meters and 1M. I find a lonely section of flat road and use a sign post as the finish line. I then put one of my bottles at the edge of the road to mark the start point. I try to enter the sprint around 25-28 mph then jump OTS to hit it then complete the interval just like a race using the sign as the finish line. After each interval I get a long recovery during which I evaluate the past efforts' both good and bads. Later at home I look at the PT data for watts, speed and cadence. I will also do the sprint sets from a specific distance to try different gears, time OTS and work on position. Another workout is to roll off a short hill at 30-32 mph onto a flat section then sprint the assigned time/distance.
    Last edited by Allegheny Jet; 08-11-13 at 09:31 AM.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

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