Training for Racing All Disciplines
04-30-17, 11:13 PM
#9877
OMC
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 6,960
Bikes: Specialized Allez Sprint, Look 585, Specialized Allez Comp Race
Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 461 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times
in
49 Posts
Yup. 
__________________
Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
05-01-17, 08:31 AM
#9878
Idiot Emeritus
Thread Starter
This is another article from Hellyer in case you missed it. https://www.ridethetrack.com/pdf/train_rodamaker.pdf It is by god himself. Since you hang out with him and are buds, it is required reading.
It may be a little long in the tooth but I find it essentially correct. I would suggest that the ATP-PC system is diminished faster than 10 seconds and it the phosphate creatine system that provide ATP after the 3 seconds of ATP that is stored in the muscles is gone. Thus, he suggests creatine supplementation.
If you really want to score points, read his article and the next time you see him ask him a question about it.
In fact, ask him about the relationship between endurance and speed. That will really get him going since he believes that endurance is a speed killer.
Unfortunately, I think he is right. Track and sprinting is about freshness and strength i.e. strength to weight ratio. The racer who is helping me with my injury told me the same thing. He did not really improve sprinting until he rode much less. He said it sucks but it is what it is.
And I am getting much better at riding slower at VSC. I cannot ride as slow as the guys who can really do it but my non sprinting speed is way down.
It may be a little long in the tooth but I find it essentially correct. I would suggest that the ATP-PC system is diminished faster than 10 seconds and it the phosphate creatine system that provide ATP after the 3 seconds of ATP that is stored in the muscles is gone. Thus, he suggests creatine supplementation.
If you really want to score points, read his article and the next time you see him ask him a question about it.
In fact, ask him about the relationship between endurance and speed. That will really get him going since he believes that endurance is a speed killer.
Unfortunately, I think he is right. Track and sprinting is about freshness and strength i.e. strength to weight ratio. The racer who is helping me with my injury told me the same thing. He did not really improve sprinting until he rode much less. He said it sucks but it is what it is.
And I am getting much better at riding slower at VSC. I cannot ride as slow as the guys who can really do it but my non sprinting speed is way down.
Actually, I did read it. It was suggested to me by someone else who whispered to me under their breath that parts of it were actually good. And she was right, it had some interesting points. I did pick up on "endurance kills speed", but I have been told that by others (including Coach), too. And, yes, I too have noticed the effect. I tend to agree.
I'll bet I'm slower than you at VSC!
__________________
"Can you add a signature line please? The lack of words makes me think you are being held hostage and being told to be quiet"
"Can you add a signature line please? The lack of words makes me think you are being held hostage and being told to be quiet"
05-01-17, 09:30 AM
#9880
Version 7.0
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,120
Bikes: Too Many
Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1338 Post(s)
Liked 2,474 Times
in
1,449 Posts
And he says, Tongue Thoroughly in Cheek! Hang out and buds? @Hermes, it's more like forced captivity while someone "holds court". Sure, I'll ask him a question - what paper did he print the article on?
Actually, I did read it. It was suggested to me by someone else who whispered to me under their breath that parts of it were actually good. And she was right, it had some interesting points. I did pick up on "endurance kills speed", but I have been told that by others (including Coach), too. And, yes, I too have noticed the effect. I tend to agree.
I'll bet I'm slower than you at VSC!
Actually, I did read it. It was suggested to me by someone else who whispered to me under their breath that parts of it were actually good. And she was right, it had some interesting points. I did pick up on "endurance kills speed", but I have been told that by others (including Coach), too. And, yes, I too have noticed the effect. I tend to agree.
I'll bet I'm slower than you at VSC!
05-01-17, 09:33 PM
#9881
Idiot Emeritus
Thread Starter
05-02-17, 07:36 PM
#9884
Resident Alien
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Location, location.
Posts: 13,089
Mentioned: 158 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 349 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times
in
6 Posts
Good session today at the track. 2 x 6 lap TP exchanges, some speed work, and motor paced and worked with Sara on her match sprints and sprints off wheels. We're on target.
TT bike yesterday felt pretty solid. Light ride tomorrow, more track work Thursday with Sara, then a day off and some Senior Games on Saturday. More track Sunday. Then home.
Missed my nap today. Ridley and Mrs. Ex needed a walk.
TT bike yesterday felt pretty solid. Light ride tomorrow, more track work Thursday with Sara, then a day off and some Senior Games on Saturday. More track Sunday. Then home.
Missed my nap today. Ridley and Mrs. Ex needed a walk.
Last edited by Racer Ex; 05-02-17 at 07:40 PM.
05-02-17, 09:53 PM
#9885
Has a magic bike
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 12,590
Bikes: 2018 Scott Spark, 2015 Fuji Norcom Straight, 2014 BMC GF01, 2013 Trek Madone
Mentioned: 699 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4456 Post(s)
Liked 425 Times
in
157 Posts
Sounds fun, @Racer Ex. Enjoy your time at the track and say hi to @sarals for the rest of us.
Hey, @IBOHUNT, how's it going with you? Feeling any better?
Sunday I went out to scout the LLA TT course and I don't want to talk about it, lol. I didn't manage what I planned but had an ok workout, I guess and some experience with the effect of a reverse wind pattern on that course.
Rest day yesterday and today at TT workout with three 5 min intervals @114%, then 30 min of tempo riding. No problemo, I wound up doing 114%-115%-116%. For sure gasping and drooling by the end, but never any doubt about getting it done. I actually felt a little tired by the end of the 30 min tempo interval, not sure what's up with that. Nice though that its getting light out so much earlier, really helps on the TT bike because my lighting isn't as good as on the road bike (can't have a 2nd helmet-mounted light, just my bar-mounted light).
Tomorrow recovery ride and coffee with the Nightcrawlers- I think there will be 5 of us. I won't really deserve a fancy coffee drink at ride end. But I'll get one anyway.
Hey, @IBOHUNT, how's it going with you? Feeling any better?
Sunday I went out to scout the LLA TT course and I don't want to talk about it, lol. I didn't manage what I planned but had an ok workout, I guess and some experience with the effect of a reverse wind pattern on that course.
Rest day yesterday and today at TT workout with three 5 min intervals @114%, then 30 min of tempo riding. No problemo, I wound up doing 114%-115%-116%. For sure gasping and drooling by the end, but never any doubt about getting it done. I actually felt a little tired by the end of the 30 min tempo interval, not sure what's up with that. Nice though that its getting light out so much earlier, really helps on the TT bike because my lighting isn't as good as on the road bike (can't have a 2nd helmet-mounted light, just my bar-mounted light).
Tomorrow recovery ride and coffee with the Nightcrawlers- I think there will be 5 of us. I won't really deserve a fancy coffee drink at ride end. But I'll get one anyway.
05-02-17, 10:04 PM
#9886
Idiot Emeritus
Thread Starter
Good session today at the track. 2 x 6 lap TP exchanges, some speed work, and motor paced and worked with Sara on her match sprints and sprints off wheels. We're on target.
TT bike yesterday felt pretty solid. Light ride tomorrow, more track work Thursday with Sara, then a day off and some Senior Games on Saturday. More track Sunday. Then home.
Missed my nap today. Ridley and Mrs. Ex needed a walk.
TT bike yesterday felt pretty solid. Light ride tomorrow, more track work Thursday with Sara, then a day off and some Senior Games on Saturday. More track Sunday. Then home.
Missed my nap today. Ridley and Mrs. Ex needed a walk.
The raw ride went like this. The track was crowded for a Tuesday, sessions for Tuesdays are usually pretty light. Not today, though. Barb and I started our warmup, but were called off the track by one of the supervisors because we were too early, and she wanted to conduct a structured warmup. Because of that, Barb and I actually did 45 laps. I swept off with two to go because I was concerned about energy consumption. Coach and I talked things over after the warmup, and made a plan. I went out and got on a rider who was on the motor (there was motorpacing going on today), and did five of six laps. My mistake, I allowed a gap to open when we were going pretty fast, and I was bumping max heartrate, so once again, I swept off. After a rest, Coach and I went out for some sprints off of wheels. My job was to come over the top of him starting between turns three and four after a two lap pace, which we did, what three times. That was tough, but it was great. I dug deep on the last one and carried it to the line. Then another rest, and we did a match sprint session. That is freaking technically hard to do! We talked it over after the first one, I rested again, and then we did a second match sprint session. I've got a ways to go. But, the track is my world, I belong there - and I'll get it down.
It was a GREAT session!
Coach and I are scheduled to ride again Thursday morning. I can not wait!
By the way, it didn't even occur to me to get some photos. I'll try to remember to do it on Thursday.
__________________
"Can you add a signature line please? The lack of words makes me think you are being held hostage and being told to be quiet"
"Can you add a signature line please? The lack of words makes me think you are being held hostage and being told to be quiet"
Last edited by sarals; 05-02-17 at 10:25 PM.
05-02-17, 10:23 PM
#9888
Idiot Emeritus
Thread Starter
@Heathpack, it was almost too much fun to be legal! It was a tough, tough workout - just the way I like them. And, I got to ride with Coach!!
__________________
"Can you add a signature line please? The lack of words makes me think you are being held hostage and being told to be quiet"
"Can you add a signature line please? The lack of words makes me think you are being held hostage and being told to be quiet"
05-03-17, 05:23 AM
#9889
05-03-17, 12:01 PM
#9890
Version 7.0
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,120
Bikes: Too Many
Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1338 Post(s)
Liked 2,474 Times
in
1,449 Posts
@sarals Glad you are having fun at the track.
If we ever get our San Diego Velodrome resurfacing complete, I will be able to work out more at the track. The velodrome has been shutdown since September. The first contractor failed to make the surface better and another contractor has taken over the work. The problem is that the surface is asphalt and needs to be rolled to be smooth. The roller slips off the banking.
The current contractor has developed a dynamic rigging solution where the roller is connected to another vehicle to provide a lateral force to keep the roller on the banking. The problem now is coordinating the vehicles to keep the counter force constant.
The goal was to resurface the track so that we could have a better surface in preparation for worlds in Carson. We will be lucky if the track is finished in time.
If we ever get our San Diego Velodrome resurfacing complete, I will be able to work out more at the track. The velodrome has been shutdown since September. The first contractor failed to make the surface better and another contractor has taken over the work. The problem is that the surface is asphalt and needs to be rolled to be smooth. The roller slips off the banking.
The current contractor has developed a dynamic rigging solution where the roller is connected to another vehicle to provide a lateral force to keep the roller on the banking. The problem now is coordinating the vehicles to keep the counter force constant.
The goal was to resurface the track so that we could have a better surface in preparation for worlds in Carson. We will be lucky if the track is finished in time.
Last edited by Hermes; 05-03-17 at 03:59 PM.
05-03-17, 12:50 PM
#9891
Senior Member
Sounds fun, @Racer Ex. Enjoy your time at the track and say hi to @sarals for the rest of us.
Hey, @IBOHUNT, how's it going with you? Feeling any better?
Sunday I went out to scout the LLA TT course and I don't want to talk about it, lol. I didn't manage what I planned but had an ok workout, I guess and some experience with the effect of a reverse wind pattern on that course.
Rest day yesterday and today at TT workout with three 5 min intervals @114%, then 30 min of tempo riding. No problemo, I wound up doing 114%-115%-116%. For sure gasping and drooling by the end, but never any doubt about getting it done. I actually felt a little tired by the end of the 30 min tempo interval, not sure what's up with that. Nice though that its getting light out so much earlier, really helps on the TT bike because my lighting isn't as good as on the road bike (can't have a 2nd helmet-mounted light, just my bar-mounted light).
Tomorrow recovery ride and coffee with the Nightcrawlers- I think there will be 5 of us. I won't really deserve a fancy coffee drink at ride end. But I'll get one anyway.
Hey, @IBOHUNT, how's it going with you? Feeling any better?
Sunday I went out to scout the LLA TT course and I don't want to talk about it, lol. I didn't manage what I planned but had an ok workout, I guess and some experience with the effect of a reverse wind pattern on that course.
Rest day yesterday and today at TT workout with three 5 min intervals @114%, then 30 min of tempo riding. No problemo, I wound up doing 114%-115%-116%. For sure gasping and drooling by the end, but never any doubt about getting it done. I actually felt a little tired by the end of the 30 min tempo interval, not sure what's up with that. Nice though that its getting light out so much earlier, really helps on the TT bike because my lighting isn't as good as on the road bike (can't have a 2nd helmet-mounted light, just my bar-mounted light).
Tomorrow recovery ride and coffee with the Nightcrawlers- I think there will be 5 of us. I won't really deserve a fancy coffee drink at ride end. But I'll get one anyway.
You are getting better at the WTF workouts. I say make the intervals 8 minutes
05-03-17, 03:23 PM
#9892
Idiot Emeritus
Thread Starter
@IBOHUNT
@Hermes, I read about that resurfacing debacle at San Diego. Sheesh...
The cool down circle and apron at Hellyer was "sealed" last week. It was hot out there yesterday, and guess what. Don't stand on the tarmac in your cleats for more than moment, or you'll have sealant all over your cleats. Nice!
Back to Hellyer tomorrow for another workout with Coach!
@Hermes, I read about that resurfacing debacle at San Diego. Sheesh...
The cool down circle and apron at Hellyer was "sealed" last week. It was hot out there yesterday, and guess what. Don't stand on the tarmac in your cleats for more than moment, or you'll have sealant all over your cleats. Nice!
Back to Hellyer tomorrow for another workout with Coach!
__________________
"Can you add a signature line please? The lack of words makes me think you are being held hostage and being told to be quiet"
"Can you add a signature line please? The lack of words makes me think you are being held hostage and being told to be quiet"
05-03-17, 04:07 PM
#9893
OMC
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 6,960
Bikes: Specialized Allez Sprint, Look 585, Specialized Allez Comp Race
Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 461 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times
in
49 Posts
Monday I got in a 55-minute recovery ride prior to the drive back home. Yesterday the workout was 1:30 at endurance pace with 4x30" "spin-ups" starting in an easy gear (I used 53-25) at 90 rpm and accelerating to 100 rpm and shifting, repeating until I ran out of time. I started them at 30 minutes into the ride and the first three were uncomfortable, my legs having felt like wood since the beginning of the ride. Halfway through the fourth one, my body flipped a switch and all of a sudden it wasn't that bad. The remainder of the ride felt normal - still some residual fatigue, but holding endurance pace wasn't hard work now.
Rest day today. Good thing too, since we've gotten about ten inches of rain since about 9 AM. It should be cleared out by tomorrow's ride.
The remainder of the ride felt normal - still some residual fatigue, but holding endurance pace wasn't hard work now.Rest day today. Good thing too, since we've gotten about ten inches of rain since about 9 AM. It should be cleared out by tomorrow's ride.
__________________
Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
05-04-17, 10:10 AM
#9895
Version 7.0
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,120
Bikes: Too Many
Mentioned: 297 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1338 Post(s)
Liked 2,474 Times
in
1,449 Posts
It appears that it takes two support vehicles to keep the roller on the banking at SD velodrome.
05-04-17, 01:51 PM
#9896
Senior Member
Reminds me of pictures I saw when they repaved Daytona. CAT D9 attached to a roller ...
05-04-17, 05:07 PM
#9897
Idiot Emeritus
Thread Starter
It was a hard session at Hellyer today with Coach. We did many different things, mostly centered around bike fit, which we worked on. We did the usual 30 lap warmup, and as is (too) often the case, I ended up on the front for the last lap. Off went Coach, no way I was chasing him! I put the race wheels on the Giant after that, took it out for a few laps to see how it felt, and then I did a race effort full standing start 500M TT. Coach timed and shot video of it. It was, by all accounts, good, in the 45 second range. There was wind blowing, and my start didn't pop like it should have. I've work to do, but I'm in the hunt.
After that effort, adjustments were made to the bike, and I did a five lapper, Coach timing me and calling splits. Yes, I slowed down each lap! Then, more adjustments, more test rides, and I was pretty well baked!
Photos:
Coach, on the motor with a teammate:
After that effort, adjustments were made to the bike, and I did a five lapper, Coach timing me and calling splits. Yes, I slowed down each lap! Then, more adjustments, more test rides, and I was pretty well baked!
Photos:
Coach, on the motor with a teammate:
__________________
"Can you add a signature line please? The lack of words makes me think you are being held hostage and being told to be quiet"
"Can you add a signature line please? The lack of words makes me think you are being held hostage and being told to be quiet"
05-04-17, 10:25 PM
#9899
05-05-17, 07:40 AM
#9900
Idiot Emeritus
Thread Starter
Glad you had fun, @sarals!
And today, I'm swollen up like a blowfish. Everywhere! As Coach has said, a 500 will "leave a mark"!
__________________
"Can you add a signature line please? The lack of words makes me think you are being held hostage and being told to be quiet"
"Can you add a signature line please? The lack of words makes me think you are being held hostage and being told to be quiet"
