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  1. #1301
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Bridge efforts, today, and then two sets of sprints. If I get my finger on the shifter when I go, I can handle the shifts okay... but my top speeds are NOT something I'll be putting in a "how fast can you go?" thread.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  2. #1302
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    Bridge efforts, today, and then two sets of sprints. If I get my finger on the shifter when I go, I can handle the shifts okay... but my top speeds are NOT something I'll be putting in a "how fast can you go?" thread.
    I have SRAM shifters that allows the shift lever be pulled in next to the bar without pulling brake. When I prepare to sprint I wrap my index finger around the lever and just flick the finger to drop gears while the other four fingers hold the bar.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  3. #1303
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    I rode the new Oura saddle on the Look today. It made for a completely different bike and a ride where I could concentrate on the job at hand and not how uncomfortable I was. It made me appreciate, too, what a pretty dern nice bike that Look really is.

    Ex had me do the group ride as well as some interval drills (ten of them). I bailed the ride at about halfway to ride to a road with a constant 2% grade where I could do the drills. It was an "ah-hah!" exercise, in many ways. I still can't hammer OTS for a full minute (and I did four efforts), but I'm up to 52 seconds.

    For the group ride portion, I did an easy paced four mile warmup. With the group, when the pace came up, I made sure I was third or fourth wheel, and I stayed there, managing efforts, recovering when I needed to, staying sheltered (that means wheel sucking) and paying attention to the riders around me. It's so much easier to do that when you DON'T HURT! Now, I'm as fast on the Look as I am on the Bianchi. I noticed today the guys are comfortable with me being up there with them. I got some compliments, too, about "stronger" and "consistent". That felt really, really good!

    Hey, AzT- life at the front IS fun!
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  4. #1304
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarals View Post
    I still can't hammer OTS for a full minute (and I did four efforts), but I'm up to 52 seconds.
    What is the limiter? You are very, very close.

    Quote Originally Posted by sarals View Post
    Hey, AzT- life at the front IS fun!
    You mean there's a back?

  5. #1305
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    What is the limiter? You are very, very close.



    You mean there's a back?
    Well, I do get up rollers much better than I used to.

    And yes, there is - I used to live a few hundred yards behind there. I might still, we'll have to find out.

    Shovel, thank you!
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  6. #1306
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    3 hours, 6000' of climbing, started in 70 degree weather and ended up at the top of the mountain watching people ski in 45 degree weather.

    Forgot my inhaler. Yeah, I have the asthma for sure.

  7. #1307
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    Forgot my inhaler.
    I hate when I do that.

    Nice ride.

  8. #1308
    West Coast Weenie Esteban58's Avatar
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    First day of intervals with new training program: 3 x 8 min 'Steady State' (92-94% THR), 5 min rest between intervals. 70 minutes overall inc. warmup and cooldown.
    Was able to hold the zone ok, some fade in the 3rd set. Major sweat puddle on the floor. No idea if it did any good.
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  9. #1309
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    2:50 endurance ride to hook up with my wife for a lunch ride.

    My morning started by loading her bike in the car so she could take it to work. I would ride to her office which is about 40 minutes. As she drives out the door, I realize that all my sunglasses are in the car. I chase after her down our street running and luckily she got caught at a light. I secured my glasses and thought that the run was not that bad.

    It was overcast, cold and supposed to rain in the afternoon so my goal was to get the ride in and miss the rain. The ride was cold initially and then it was okay. After some work on San Bruno, we did a lap of the Brisbane Circuit Race course which is at the foot of Mount San Bruno. The circuit course features a long gradual climb, sweeping right turn and then a fast gradual descent with an S turn. However, it is ideal to do tempo work and if the traffic is light practice cornering on a race course.

    I rode back home tempo. It was a good workout and always fun to ride with MEA at lunch.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  10. #1310
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Fun in spin class today. My legs felt good, the efforts were just right. It was a good warmup for strength training. I tried some of the new exercises on the video coach sent me. I need more work with those, I'm not nearly graceful enough to pull them off properly without further repetition. Still, it was a good workout.
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  11. #1311
    West Coast Weenie Esteban58's Avatar
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    Utter failure at HR based interval training today... I was supposed to repeat wednesdays workout - 3 x 8 minutes 'steady state' (145-150 HR)... but I was out on the road (which was really nice) and just could keep the HR in the zone... any uphill and my HR jump into the low 150's unless I really back off, and 'controlling' HR sucks.

    I should probably just get a powertap wheel.
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  12. #1312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esteban58 View Post
    Utter failure at HR based interval training today... I was supposed to repeat wednesdays workout - 3 x 8 minutes 'steady state' (145-150 HR)... but I was out on the road (which was really nice) and just could keep the HR in the zone... any uphill and my HR jump into the low 150's unless I really back off, and 'controlling' HR sucks.

    I should probably just get a powertap wheel.
    Steve - That's not an utter failure. Going outside your HR range (in both directions) happens when you're on the road. The aim is to try your best to stay in that range, but too many variables exist on the road for that to be a perfectly attainable goal. If it means "backing off" on hills, do it - you're primarily working on your cardiovascular system, and the ranges are there for a reason. Short periods outside those ranges don't nullify the workout.

    A power meter makes that more, not less, obvious. A car passing in the opposite direction can bounce your power up 50 watts for a short while. A buffeting crosswind will do that as well. These changes are immediate, and aren't smoothed like HR. I've got about a 15 watt spread in my SS range, so you can see how that can be challenging.
    Regards,
    Chuck

    Demain, on roule!

  13. #1313
    West Coast Weenie Esteban58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by revchuck View Post
    Steve - That's not an utter failure. Going outside your HR range (in both directions) happens when you're on the road. The aim is to try your best to stay in that range, but too many variables exist on the road for that to be a perfectly attainable goal. If it means "backing off" on hills, do it - you're primarily working on your cardiovascular system, and the ranges are there for a reason. Short periods outside those ranges don't nullify the workout.

    A power meter makes that more, not less, obvious. A car passing in the opposite direction can bounce your power up 50 watts for a short while. A buffeting crosswind will do that as well. These changes are immediate, and aren't smoothed like HR. I've got about a 15 watt spread in my SS range, so you can see how that can be challenging.
    Should I program a few beats of slop into the workout?

    For example, per the Carmichael system, SS for me right now is something like 92-94% of Test average heart rate - so something like 146 to 149, which I set up in the Garmin as 145 to 150... Still, the darn thing was beeping away at me for being outside range for most of the 2nd interval (which was mostly uphill) - if I'd set it up as say 142 to 152 it wouldn't have complained nearly as much, but maybe I just want to let it complain and use that as feedback... This is only my first week of training so excuse the noobishness.

    and yes I can see how a 15 watt range would be equally challenging to hold.

    thanks,

    Steve
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  14. #1314
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    I took another day off to try and shake this sickness. If the weather clears up I should be able to do a long ride tomorrow. The key will be to listen to my body and shut it down before hitting the wall. There is no use running myself into the ground this early.

  15. #1315
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    ...maybe I just want to let it complain and use that as feedback... This is only my first week of training so excuse the noobishness.
    I'd leave it where it is and use the beeps for feedback, to let you know you're outside the HR so you can adjust. And don't worry about the noobishness - when I first got my Powertap, I was utterly freaked out by how much the watts varied with so little change in perceived effort. With the Training Peaks software CTS uses, you can highlight your intervals on the graph and it'll give you the average power and HR for that interval. As long as your averages are in the intended range and you didn't go too far outside, you've accomplished your goal. I don't know if Garmin Connect offers that.
    Regards,
    Chuck

    Demain, on roule!

  16. #1316
    West Coast Weenie Esteban58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by revchuck View Post
    I'd leave it where it is and use the beeps for feedback, to let you know you're outside the HR so you can adjust. And don't worry about the noobishness - when I first got my Powertap, I was utterly freaked out by how much the watts varied with so little change in perceived effort. With the Training Peaks software CTS uses, you can highlight your intervals on the graph and it'll give you the average power and HR for that interval. As long as your averages are in the intended range and you didn't go too far outside, you've accomplished your goal. I don't know if Garmin Connect offers that.
    WKO+ does cover that (took a bit of poking around to find it though).

    Garmin Connect does as well (a bit easier, but no fancy charts - probably as good as WKO+ if you're doing HR based training)

    Has anyone tried Golden Cheetah (that reminds me of Lance Armstrong for some reason) with HR data? It looks like a total non-starter to me.
    Last edited by Esteban58; 01-11-13 at 11:43 PM.
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  17. #1317
    Don't mince words Red Rider's Avatar
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    Last week I started training for the San Diego Half Marathon, which means running 3 days/wk. I continue to ride outdoors or Sufferfest 3 days/wk. A couple days I can double up and hit weights at the gym, and one day to rest. I'm juggling how that will play out, given my extra duties as Prez of a non-profit and trade group. I've already played trade-off 3 times this year, and I expect that's just a beginning.

    OTOH, I continue to hold my goals, and insist that my Board of Directors respect them, so that's a win.
    When my feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh, *****, she's awake!"

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  18. #1318
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Esteban, I use Cheetah with both HR and power. Give it a shot. Start with version 2.1. 3.x isn't really cooked yet.

    What revchuck says is very true. Pacing to power is much harder than pacing to HR. Either way, it is a good skill to develop whether you race or not, as it helps fine tune your RPE.

  19. #1319
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    32* here as I get ready to head to our practice race. Don't know how you cold weather folks do what you do. Our race will probably be won by whomever has the lack of sense to get in front and freeze.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  20. #1320
    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
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    Hard session today, as I begin to build in a bit of intensity. 2hrs 50 minutes, mainly in Z3 and Z4 with some Z5 efforts in the hills. Average HR fr the ride 147, which is low Z4 for me.

  21. #1321
    Senior Member ericm979's Avatar
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    Golden Cheetah will track your rides. 3.x, which is in beta, can use the TRIMP algorithm for estimating training stress from HR data. With 2.x you'd need a power meter to track training stress. But even without that it will track your rides and if you're using a GPS computer, show you maps of where you went. GC is open source and runs as a app on Linux, Windows and Macs. Data you download into it stays on your computer.

    Strava will do the same and will also rank your times up various segments against other riders. Here in the bay area we have many good riders so you probably won't be "winning" segments. It will also calculate power numbers for you, which are fairly bogus. The data ends up on some server somewhere, so you need to keep your own copies.

    I seem to be coming down with something. A number of people at my new company are sick but still coming into work. I'm exposed to a new germ pool. I wanted to do a long ride today but it's cold and I'm trying to decide if it's better to stay home.

    Guys who are into strava can be annoying on group rides, especially winter base or tempo rides.

  22. #1322
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    32* here as I get ready to head to our practice race. Don't know how you cold weather folks do what you do. Our race will probably be won by whomever has the lack of sense to get in front and freeze.
    Or... Those who had a bowl of HTFU for breakfast.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  23. #1323
    West Coast Weenie Esteban58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericm979 View Post
    Golden Cheetah will track your rides. 3.x, which is in beta, can use the TRIMP algorithm for estimating training stress from HR data. With 2.x you'd need a power meter to track training stress. But even without that it will track your rides and if you're using a GPS computer, show you maps of where you went. GC is open source and runs as a app on Linux, Windows and Macs. Data you download into it stays on your computer.

    Strava will do the same and will also rank your times up various segments against other riders. Here in the bay area we have many good riders so you probably won't be "winning" segments. It will also calculate power numbers for you, which are fairly bogus. The data ends up on some server somewhere, so you need to keep your own copies.

    I seem to be coming down with something. A number of people at my new company are sick but still coming into work. I'm exposed to a new germ pool. I wanted to do a long ride today but it's cold and I'm trying to decide if it's better to stay home.

    Guys who are into strava can be annoying on group rides, especially winter base or tempo rides.
    I'll check out 3.0... Thanks
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  24. #1324
    West Coast Weenie Esteban58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    32* here as I get ready to head to our practice race. Don't know how you cold weather folks do what you do. Our race will probably be won by whomever has the lack of sense to get in front and freeze.
    32 is below my CBP*, I'm waiting for it to warm up before I ride. 32 + windchill = too cold.

    good news is the forecast shows a warming trend.

    * cold bailout point
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  25. #1325
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    With respect to HR and power and holding ranges, it is easier for me to hold HR since it is a slower moving parameter. And it is much easier to do a z3 HR ride than a z3 power ride. As soon as power drops I have to add force. So I get less rest. Even a few seconds of rest on a slight decline in terrain and a drop in power allows recovery. That is why constant power on the trainer is very difficult. HR moves slowly so slight reductions in pedal force do not show up.

    Also, when I restarted cycling, my HR would go up very quickly and I would end up with a lot of time at a high heart rate when in reality, I was not in higher power zones. It is my opinion that this is due to the body initially flooding the entire body with blood supply when increasing power with the legs. Over time there is adaptation so that blood flow is only increased to the legs. And with further adaptation, blood is robbed from non essential parts to supply legs. Hence rookie cyclists see very high heart rates for not much power. Today, I do not get much HR for a lot of power so that even easy HR efforts may seem hard.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

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