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  1. #1601
    Senior Member VanceMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    Speaking of being pulled in different directions, do you want to ride team pursuit with MEA and me at LAVRA on February 17th?
    Yes, quite happy to help, Hermes. I was definitely planning on being there for the afternoon session, anyway... going to do either 2k or 4k, not sure which yet. One caveat: looking like I will be doing UCLA RR the day before, so won't exactly be fresh.

  2. #1602
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMac View Post
    Yes, quite happy to help, Hermes. I was definitely planning on being there for the afternoon session, anyway... going to do either 2k or 4k, not sure which yet. One caveat: looking like I will be doing UCLA RR the day before, so won't exactly be fresh.
    Great.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  3. #1603
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMac View Post
    Been getting some good workouts in lately, and finding a good groove. It feels like I've set a decent foundation to ramp up the intensity, as well as focus on some specificity. I envy you guys with very specific and narrow goals. The hardest part for me is being pulled in multiple directions.
    I get that more than you might imagine. There is both a blessing and a curse to being slightly above average at a bunch of stuff.

    It's pretty much why I set Battenkill as my first peak, and have to some degree tried to stay on the program.

  4. #1604
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Fatigue. I've been pretty good this week, in spite of being on a work week. The difference is we haven't flown much over the week. I'm surprised, really, at how much flying really takes out of me. It's very mentally draining, even short VFR flights. That I knew, what I didn't get is how much that mental fatigue affects the physical. There seems to be a multiplication factor involved, like almost double?
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  5. #1605
    Old Road Racer Cleave's Avatar
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    I went to work for 1/2 day yesterday and even that might have been a mistake. Regardless, I think I feel well enough to get in a workout at VSC tonight. Will there be a VancMac sighting tonight? Of course at this point, training isn't about gaining fitness for VoS, it's about maintaining what little fitness I have and not psyching myself out before I get there. Why am I going? I've missed too much training. At least I'm well rested.
    Thanks.
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  6. #1606
    Senior Member VanceMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    I get that more than you might imagine. There is both a blessing and a curse to being slightly above average at a bunch of stuff.

    It's pretty much why I set Battenkill as my first peak, and have to some degree tried to stay on the program.
    I'm lucky to not be burdened with that above average thing but I just have too much fun at too many different aspects of cycling. And while diversity can be a strength, sometimes it can be quite counter-productive (as you well know). Training for a kilo at the track looks a lot different than a 12hr mtb event! It's not usually that extreme (and I'm not training for the kilo), but it does make for some tough choices and compromises.

    I just looked up Battenkill. Looks like it will be a full field of 150 of the nation's finest in the 50+... oof. Will you be getting there early? Have you ridden that course before?

  7. #1607
    Senior Member VanceMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleave View Post
    I think I feel well enough to get in a workout at VSC tonight. Will there be a VancMac sighting tonight?
    I'll be there, Cleave, along with a couple teammates. I'm excited that we have about a half-dozen or so riders this year really committed to track.

  8. #1608
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Hey all, I've got a nutrition question.

    I'll leave out the "women specific" dietary parts. I know we fairer sex (the term doesn't really apply to me) types have some specific needs, but I'd like some general advice.

    I like an egg, poached preferably, the morning of an intense ride. It works for me. The night before I need protein, too. Shovel mentioned "a beer" - good, I'll try that! Now, here's the thing. This Sunday I have about three hours between races. The first is early, early, the second is in the afternoon. I'll need to eat something in that down period, but what? And on hydration, I usually just drink water. Sometimes I'll blend a little Gatorade in there (not 100%, because it gives me heartburn) for the minerals and such. I've not tried Cytomax. Should I get some and drink that between the sets? Ex mentioned a "recovery drink", and I forgot to ask him what that would be (I've had the recovery shakes after long runs, and they're great - but then I'm not going out to run again after downing one, either!). Would should I drink between the races that will replenish but not upset? I'll have a shake after the second race (yum).
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  9. #1609
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    First, don't do anything for the first time on race day. Always test it beforehand in training. I drink Gatorade G2 made from powder in my drink bottles, plain water in my wash bottles. Between races, it depends on how long and which fields. The harder the second field, the less I eat. With three hours, I would have a snack food right away and a gel 30 minutes before the second race. I would warm up a second time. Snack foods could be a granola bar or two, a muffin. I also will drink an Ensure (generic clone) for some protein if the gap is at least an hour. Maybe a mexican Coke. After all racing is done, I drink a double protein shake made with 2% milk and a scoop of vanilla ice cream. Then another Coke an hour later on the drive back.
    Last edited by shovelhd; 02-07-13 at 11:02 AM.

  10. #1610
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMac View Post
    I just looked up Battenkill. Looks like it will be a full field of 150 of the nation's finest in the 50+... oof. Will you be getting there early? Have you ridden that course before?
    Never ridden the course. Plan is to get there a bit early and pre ride some of it. I figure I'll start route sheeting the thing in March to see where the key areas are and start planning my moves. Mostly the goal is to stay upright early...seems like there's a fair bit of carnage.

  11. #1611
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    First, don't do anything for the first time on race day. Always test it beforehand in training. I drink Gatorade G2 made from powder in my drink bottles, plain water in my wash bottles. Between races, it depends on how long and which fields. The harder the second field, the less I eat. With three hours, I would have a snack food and a gel 30 minutes before the second race. I would warm up a second time. Snack foods could be a granola bar or two, a muffin. I also will drink an Ensure (generic clone) for some protein if the gap is at least an hour. Maybe a mexican Coke. After all racing is done, I drink a double protein shake made with 2% milk and a scoop of vanilla ice cream. Then another Coke an hour later on the drive back.
    Excellent - thank you!

    Question. Do you think a Clif bar would be too heavy between races?
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  12. #1612
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    I can't eat Clif Bars, they make me sick. I'm the wrong guy to ask. My standard granola bar is Nature Valley Oats and Honey. I buy them by the 24 pack.

  13. #1613
    West Coast Weenie Esteban58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarals View Post
    Excellent - thank you!

    Question. Do you think a Clif bar would be too heavy between races?
    not if you eat it soon after the first race... almost anything that *you know you tolerate* is ok, given some time to digest it.
    there is no signature.

  14. #1614
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esteban58 View Post
    not if you eat it soon after the first race... almost anything that *you know you tolerate* is ok, given some time to digest it.
    Okay. I asked because I sometimes eat them during (long) rides, and they don't bother me at all. I'll bring a couple with me.
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  15. #1615
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarals View Post
    Question. Do you think a Clif bar would be too heavy between races?
    I eat them on rides with no problem. If they agree with you now, they should work, just make sure you drink enough water. A bar I like better is the Pro Bar - 370 calories in one of those, half again what's in a Clif Bar.
    Regards,
    Chuck

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  16. #1616
    West Coast Weenie Esteban58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarals View Post
    Okay. I asked because I sometimes eat them during (long) rides, and they don't bother me at all. I'll bring a couple with me.
    As I understand it, the key is that your body can only process a certain amount per hour (100 calories sticks in my mind, but I don't have my reference
    book handy) - I think this matters more on longer rides, where you're depleting your reserves and need to continuously recharge them - one of the experienced
    peeps can probably give better insight there.

    Hydration / electrolytes are probably more important, but having something in the tank to recharge with without overdoing it makes sense.
    there is no signature.

  17. #1617
    The Crank
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarals View Post
    It took a LONG TIME to warm up, I did the full 30 minutes at Z3 pace and I still wasn't quite there. The first 5 minute interval was a chore, but what really hurt was the recovery
    How do you judge when you are warmed up? Heart rate?

  18. #1618
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    As I understand it, the key is that your body can only process a certain amount per hour (100 calories sticks in my mind, but I don't have my reference
    book handy)
    From my reading, it's about 250-300 calories/hour, and that can vary even more. I shoot for 250-300 - that's a Clif bar, or a bottle of sports drink and a gel, or something along those lines.
    Regards,
    Chuck

    Demain, on roule!

  19. #1619
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomgdaly View Post
    How do you judge when you are warmed up? Heart rate?
    It plays a role, but not completely. It does come down. Mostly it's how I breathe and how quickly I recover after an effort - as in processing lactic acid. I process it a lot faster after I'm warmed up and also my muscles are looser.
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  20. #1620
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    I just finished another set of scheduled intervals. These were shorter but higher intensity. The trouble I had was staying below the the upper numbers for each set (burning those matches again). I warmed up completely, and the ride went very well. Here's hoping I feel this good on Sunday!

    TSS was 158.7, max wattage was 665, avg was 127 (FTP of 133). The average is low because my goal was to ride at an endurance pace for a time and then ramp up for specified periods in steps to an ultra max effort. There were sprints scheduled, too, hence the high max power. I think my FTP may a bit higher than 133 now. Still, I'm slow but sure!

    Oh, the PT worked PERFECTLY. HR, Cadence, the Hub - it was all there.
    Last edited by sarals; 02-07-13 at 01:36 PM. Reason: I'm a dodo
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  21. #1621
    West Coast Weenie Esteban58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by revchuck View Post
    From my reading, it's about 250-300 calories/hour, and that can vary even more. I shoot for 250-300 - that's a Clif bar, or a bottle of sports drink and a gel, or something along those lines.
    A quick check of Friel's blog lists 200-400 / hour - so you're right - he (Friel) noted that you'll need more if your doing longer term / higher intesity rides.
    He also mentioned a ratio of 45:1 carbs to protein, fwiw. This matches what Carmichael recommends - you're re-loading the carb burning capabilities of your muscles.
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  22. #1622
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esteban58 View Post
    A quick check of Friel's blog lists 200-400 / hour - so you're right - he (Friel) noted that you'll need more if your doing longer term / higher intesity rides.
    He also mentioned a ratio of 45:1 carbs to protein, fwiw. This matches what Carmichael recommends - you're re-loading the carb burning capabilities of your
    muscles.
    45:1 carbs to protein? I know I read that, it just didn't stick. For some reason, I tend to need more protein, just maintenance on carbs. Well, I am a different life form than you guys!
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  23. #1623
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarals View Post
    TSS was 158.7
    Nice.

  24. #1624
    West Coast Weenie Esteban58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarals View Post
    45:1 carbs to protein? I know I read that, it just didn't stick. For some reason, I tend to need more protein, just maintenance on carbs. Well, I am a different life form than you guys!
    And don't ask me how to factor in trying to lose weight...
    there is no signature.

  25. #1625
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarals View Post
    45:1 carbs to protein? I know I read that, it just didn't stick. For some reason, I tend to need more protein, just maintenance on carbs. Well, I am a different life form than you guys!
    Pretty sure it should read 4-5 parts carbs to one part protein.
    Regards,
    Chuck

    Demain, on roule!

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