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  1. #2126
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    This week was a washout.

  2. #2127
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    This week was a washout.
    Dude... with the form you have this season, you need to keep things going.

  3. #2128
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    First back spasm of 2013. CDR jinxed me.

  4. #2129
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    Dude... with the form you have this season, you need to keep things going.
    Yep, I know. Next few weeks should be good though.

  5. #2130
    So it is LAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    First back spasm of 2013. CDR jinxed me.
    That's no good shovelhd. Wishing you well.

  6. #2131
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    First back spasm of 2013. CDR jinxed me.
    Dislike.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  7. #2132
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    First back spasm of 2013. CDR jinxed me.
    First? It's like you expect it. Not good, my friend - rest!
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  8. #2133
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    I've lived with them my whole life. I have a recovery/openers ride on tap for today. I'll know when to shut it down.

  9. #2134
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    I have the same back injury as Andre Aggassi. It surfaced at age 7. I will report when my back is not in spasm.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  10. #2135
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Of course, I haven't had one in months, and tomorrow I am racing without the team in a race where I could actually post some results. I'll roll around after work, have a few beers with dinner, rest, and HTFU.

  11. #2136
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    Of course, I haven't had one in months, and tomorrow I am racing without the team in a race where I could actually post some results. I'll roll around after work, have a few beers with dinner, rest, and HTFU.
    Key!

    I too have back troubles. I get a spasm about twice a year whether I need to or not. The first one happened about ten years or so ago when I was putting my shoes on one morning. I was bed ridden for the whole day after that. My doctor said to "expect it from now on". Great.

    Welcome to old age, right?
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  12. #2137
    Senior Member chiefDave's Avatar
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    Inversion table FTW. My back is messed up from jumping from perfectly good airplanes while in flight for over 24 years, and the table has kept me going, and going, and going... (cue energizer bunny). Too bad the bunny races smarter then I do lol

  13. #2138
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarals View Post
    Key!

    I too have back troubles. I get a spasm about twice a year whether I need to or not. The first one happened about ten years or so ago when I was putting my shoes on one morning. I was bed ridden for the whole day after that. My doctor said to "expect it from now on". Great.


    Welcome to old age, right?
    Wrong. Speak for yourself.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  14. #2139
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefDave View Post
    Inversion table FTW. My back is messed up from jumping from perfectly good airplanesl
    You should have rappelled out of perfectly good helicopters instead.

  15. #2140
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    The idea that we should accept a big physical deterioration is, IMO, a dated notion. As is the idea, oft-presented in the 50+ forum that we should "age gracefully" by not trying to maintain performance. I say Phhhhfffftttt!!! to all that. We have to keep pushing hard - that is the key. We need to do it smart, but repeated strenuous exercise is key to maintaining health.

    I've mentioned "Younger Next Year" many times, as I think that book absolutely nails it. If you constantly tell your body that you need it ready to perform, it will be. If you don',t it will think you want to hibernate and atrophy. The book says 7 days a week is best, but the intensity we put in creates a need for rest days. The book debunks the idea of "moderate exercise". You know, the "raise your HR a bit for 30 minutes a few times a week"? Get real. Moderate exercise keeps you moderately fit, not really and truly fit. And moderately fit just doesn't cut it, health wise - not for me, anyway. Again, IMO, the doctors are overly motivated by protecting against anything that can come back to haunt them. So they are quick to say "back off", "rest", "take it easy", when often, doing the opposite is more what you need. I have some chronic, scoliosis related issues, but I know that, if I keep those areas in really great shape, the issues are minimal. If I feel stress/strain in my lower back, I don't raise my handlebars, I spend more time in the drops.

    And yes... I accept that there are medical exceptions where you absolutely need to back off - I just think they are rarer than people let them become.

  16. #2141
    Packfodding 3 caloso's Avatar
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    This thread is open to all masters racers now, right? Racing age is 46.
    Cyclists of the world, unite! You have nothing to lube but your chains!

  17. #2142
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Every one but you, caloso.

    Wups, was getting all 33.

    Welcome!

  18. #2143
    Old Road Racer Cleave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefDave View Post
    Inversion table FTW. My back is messed up from jumping from perfectly good airplanes while in flight for over 24 years, and the table has kept me going, and going, and going... (cue energizer bunny). Too bad the bunny races smarter then I do lol
    chiefDave, ever jump out of a C-17? I had something to do with the anchor cable and retriever winches. Thanks for doing what you did for so long. Me, I like staying inside of perfectly good airplanes.
    Thanks.
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  19. #2144
    Senior Member chiefDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    You should have rappelled out of perfectly good helicopters instead.
    I did started out in 101st, then 10th mnt, 2nd ID then 82nd. Jumps take way to long

  20. #2145
    Old Road Racer Cleave's Avatar
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    AzTR, I had a long standing goal of going under 1 hour for a 40 Km ITT before I turned 50. When I was 49 and 50 I really did try to train right and raced hard trying to get under the elusive (for me) hour. It didn't happen. However, I kept at it and in 2010, before I turned 53, I finally did a 58:30. I was 7th out of 12 but I was extremely happy. Unfortunately, I haven't ridden that fast since then but I keep trying.

    The main point is that I did get faster and I am going to keep trying to get faster -- even if it kills me.

    Another example, which I hope is not an outlier as I would like to do the same, is Robert Paganini. His racing age this year is 77! We are racing friends (meaning I don't see him outside of racing) but this guy is one of my heroes. He races most of the 55+/60+ criteriums in SoCal and he occasionally races 45+ -- hanging, but hey he's 77. He's been at Bend the past few years and he won a couple of jerseys. Don't know if he's going to Cleveland, but he qualified. BTW, he's French, not Italian.

    I intend to race so that I have to train hard for as long as I can.
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  21. #2146
    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caloso View Post
    This thread is open to all masters racers now, right? Racing age is 46.
    Welcome. And not just this thread, but this whole sub-forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    The idea that we should accept a big physical deterioration is, IMO, a dated notion. As is the idea, oft-presented in the 50+ forum that we should "age gracefully" by not trying to maintain performance. I say Phhhhfffftttt!!! to all that. We have to keep pushing hard - that is the key. We need to do it smart, but repeated strenuous exercise is key to maintaining health.

    I've mentioned "Younger Next Year" many times, as I think that book absolutely nails it. If you constantly tell your body that you need it ready to perform, it will be. If you don',t it will think you want to hibernate and atrophy. The book says 7 days a week is best, but the intensity we put in creates a need for rest days. The book debunks the idea of "moderate exercise". You know, the "raise your HR a bit for 30 minutes a few times a week"? Get real. Moderate exercise keeps you moderately fit, not really and truly fit. And moderately fit just doesn't cut it, health wise - not for me, anyway. Again, IMO, the doctors are overly motivated by protecting against anything that can come back to haunt them. So they are quick to say "back off", "rest", "take it easy", when often, doing the opposite is more what you need. I have some chronic, scoliosis related issues, but I know that, if I keep those areas in really great shape, the issues are minimal. If I feel stress/strain in my lower back, I don't raise my handlebars, I spend more time in the drops.

    And yes... I accept that there are medical exceptions where you absolutely need to back off - I just think they are rarer than people let them become.

    Hmm. I don't disagree, but I think you might underestimate the health benefits of "moderate" exercise. In terms of longevity and good health into old age, I think the jury is out vis-a-vis the benefits of extensive or intensive training. There's not much doubt that you need intensity to get fitter, but how fit you need to be for health may be another thing.

    Of course, people mean different things by "moderate". My idea of moderate is touring at upwards of 300 miles per week, with some relatively strenuous efforts when I haul my fat carcass and a fully-loaded tourer up some hills. Most of my contemporaries think that describing that as "moderate" is insane. It's only us daft buggers who train for racing that know what strenuous really means.

    But I must say that after a long tour - say 1000 miles or so - I feel fantastically healthy, maybe healthier than I do when I am training the top end through intervals.

    Whatever, it's a moot point. And I absolutely agree with you that putting in the effort slows the rate at which we suffer any age-related deterioration. It's one of the reasons that I'm younger than my father was at the same age, and by the standards of his time, he was in pretty good nick.
    There have been many days when I haven't felt like riding, but there has never been a day when I was sorry I rode.

  22. #2147
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    I'm sure there are arguments the other way, but the book is pretty persuasive, and provides a great thesis as to the evolutionary reasons.

  23. #2148
    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    I'm sure there are arguments the other way, but the book is pretty persuasive, and provides a great thesis as to the evolutionary reasons.
    Those arguments cut both ways. Many early hunter-gatherers were persistence hunters, in which endurance, rather than speed or intensity, was what was important. Look at the lifestyle of the aboriginal Australians, they covered vast areas at slow speeds. And it isn't clear that any of the evolutionary arguments are relevant to the longevity debate. As long as you lived long enough to breed and support the next generation to adulthood, that was good enough.

    However, interesting as this is, and despite my open-mindedness about how good it is for my health, I'll be back on the interval training next week...
    There have been many days when I haven't felt like riding, but there has never been a day when I was sorry I rode.

  24. #2149
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    Wrong. Speak for yourself.
    I feel properly chastised!

    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  25. #2150
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Welcome, caloso. It's always been open to all Masters, but you wouldn't know it when it was hidden in a 50+ forum under the title of 50+ Masters Racing. I hope you like it over here. Great to have you.

    Inversion table? How the hell am I supposed to drink beer upside down, with Mrs. Shovel loading the beer bong?

    AZT, I agree that strenuous exercise is very beneficial to me, but I wouldn't say that about anyone else. If somebody gets pleasure out of meditating as the sun rises every day, so be it. Live life to the fullest, any way you can.

    Openers and form sprints went OK this afternoon. My back spasm is in the lower left of my back next to the kidney. On a scale of 1-4, where 1) is a dull ache, 2) is a punch in the kidney, 3) is a sledgehammer blow to the kidney, and 4) is a knife in the kidney, this is between 1-3. Exercise always stretches it out and makes it feel better. I started riding not able to go lower than the tops without pain. A few miles in, the bends, a few miles later, the hoods, and eventually the drops. I could not do any jumps without 3) level pain, so I stopped doing that. No jump in the form sprints but I still laid down some strong wattage for 20-25 seconds. My legs feel pretty good. As for racing tomorrow, my rule has always been, if I can put my shoes on, I race.

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