Training for Racing All Disciplines
03-08-15, 05:38 PM
#6276
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1:03. Bit over three miles for today's walk. Also made progress on the foot strap system I have been working on for the track bike.
03-08-15, 06:35 PM
#6278
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Strange, truncated week as far as training. Monday's recovery ride didn't happen due to work, Thursday's 3:30 ride on my climbing route with five trips up the main climb was pushed back to Friday due to freezing rain and 20 mph north winds with gusts to 35 and ended up being 1:15 on the trainer instead. Yesterday's team ride was cut short again due to work. Today's 1:30 recovery ride I cut back to an hour because I didn't have much to recover from. 5:49/335 TSS for the week. Next week through Saturday will be even lighter, then Rouge-Roubaix Sunday. This is probably my last go at Rouge-Roubaix; training up to a hard 106 mile RR as my first A race of the season is 1) hard and 2) messes with the rest of a season of stage races.
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Chuck
Demain, on roule!
Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
03-13-15, 04:05 PM
#6279
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Shortened Training Blocks
I just got Friel's latest book, Fast after 50. He put about a year into researching it, looking at studies based on Master's-age athletes. I'm about halfway through it so far. It's a pretty good read, and seems to reinforce things he and others have said before; namely, that fogies like us need to maintain intensity and increase rest.
My training blocks have been the traditional three weeks on/one week rest. I approached my coach with the idea that I might switch to two on/one rest, and she's open to it.
Has anyone tried the two on/one off model, and if so, how did you (or your coach) modify your training? Did you stuff three weeks' worth of intervals into two, maintain the same intensity but just do two weeks' worth before the rest week, or come up with something completely different?
My training blocks have been the traditional three weeks on/one week rest. I approached my coach with the idea that I might switch to two on/one rest, and she's open to it.
Has anyone tried the two on/one off model, and if so, how did you (or your coach) modify your training? Did you stuff three weeks' worth of intervals into two, maintain the same intensity but just do two weeks' worth before the rest week, or come up with something completely different?
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Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
03-13-15, 05:32 PM
#6280
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@revchuck: I went to a two week on, one week "off" this year and it has been much better for me. As to your follow up, at this point: I hit intervals Tues and Thurs, Wed is a longer day but less intensity, Friday is very easy and not long, Saturday is hard group ride/race and Sunday is a long endurance ride with some threshold, Monday is no bike day.
I always had trouble with rest weeks, so now it is more like I go easier during the week and maybe skip the Saturday group ride for some solo riding. Previously, I was on the edge by the end of the third week of building. Now, I feel much more fresh.
I always had trouble with rest weeks, so now it is more like I go easier during the week and maybe skip the Saturday group ride for some solo riding. Previously, I was on the edge by the end of the third week of building. Now, I feel much more fresh.
03-13-15, 06:23 PM
#6281
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I just got Friel's latest book, Fast after 50. He put about a year into researching it, looking at studies based on Master's-age athletes. I'm about halfway through it so far. It's a pretty good read, and seems to reinforce things he and others have said before; namely, that fogies like us need to maintain intensity and increase rest.
My training blocks have been the traditional three weeks on/one week rest. I approached my coach with the idea that I might switch to two on/one rest, and she's open to it.
Has anyone tried the two on/one off model, and if so, how did you (or your coach) modify your training? Did you stuff three weeks' worth of intervals into two, maintain the same intensity but just do two weeks' worth before the rest week, or come up with something completely different?
My training blocks have been the traditional three weeks on/one week rest. I approached my coach with the idea that I might switch to two on/one rest, and she's open to it.
Has anyone tried the two on/one off model, and if so, how did you (or your coach) modify your training? Did you stuff three weeks' worth of intervals into two, maintain the same intensity but just do two weeks' worth before the rest week, or come up with something completely different?
03-13-15, 06:51 PM
#6282
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Rob - Thanks for the feedback!
shovelhd - as a separate issue, I'm moving to less volume and more intensity after Rouge Roubaix. The rest of the season is stage races with typically a 5km TT, a 40 minute crit and a 40-60 mile RR. This edition of Rouge Roubaix will be my last so I can start training for stage races in December rather than in March. Re: the 3/1 model, I've been able to handle it, just wondering if going to 2/1 might work better.
shovelhd - as a separate issue, I'm moving to less volume and more intensity after Rouge Roubaix. The rest of the season is stage races with typically a 5km TT, a 40 minute crit and a 40-60 mile RR. This edition of Rouge Roubaix will be my last so I can start training for stage races in December rather than in March. Re: the 3/1 model, I've been able to handle it, just wondering if going to 2/1 might work better.
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Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
03-13-15, 07:11 PM
#6283
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The majority of my masters folks are on 2/1. Some do 3/1 during S & A and base, but they tend to be younger-ish.
I have some elite folks on 2:1 during parts of build, it's counter intuitive but they are higher cat folks doing very high intensity races.
I'm all over 2/1 myself and have been for the last 4 years. Past 50 3/1 just kills speed, enthusiasm, and ain't great for the immune system. I was 2nd twice at Gila to a former pro/multiple masters WC on 2/1 and 8-12 hours a week. Broken record, but volume, except in rare cases or guys doping, just isn't a good old guy answer.
The level and type of intensity should vary from person to person based on their physiology and racing goals, strengths and weaknesses, Etc, so answering the "what changes do you make going from 3/1 to 2/1" is a bit of a Zen riddle. My current spreadsheet has 79 workouts, a dozen of which have "plug in" time variables, because:
While I plan out the year into segments with goals and map out a "big picture" plan, I seldom do more than two weeks of day to day plans, and during build it's usually weekly. Life, illness, work, schedule changes, injury, and training response make doing more than that a bit of a waste of time. And everybody has different responses and recovery at different times during different cycles. Small tweaks here or there often end up yielding significant results. Listen to the athlete listening to their body, and figure out where their head is as well. Go from there.
I have some elite folks on 2:1 during parts of build, it's counter intuitive but they are higher cat folks doing very high intensity races.
I'm all over 2/1 myself and have been for the last 4 years. Past 50 3/1 just kills speed, enthusiasm, and ain't great for the immune system. I was 2nd twice at Gila to a former pro/multiple masters WC on 2/1 and 8-12 hours a week. Broken record, but volume, except in rare cases or guys doping, just isn't a good old guy answer.
The level and type of intensity should vary from person to person based on their physiology and racing goals, strengths and weaknesses, Etc, so answering the "what changes do you make going from 3/1 to 2/1" is a bit of a Zen riddle. My current spreadsheet has 79 workouts, a dozen of which have "plug in" time variables, because:
While I plan out the year into segments with goals and map out a "big picture" plan, I seldom do more than two weeks of day to day plans, and during build it's usually weekly. Life, illness, work, schedule changes, injury, and training response make doing more than that a bit of a waste of time. And everybody has different responses and recovery at different times during different cycles. Small tweaks here or there often end up yielding significant results. Listen to the athlete listening to their body, and figure out where their head is as well. Go from there.
03-13-15, 07:28 PM
#6284
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Ex - Thanks! And just FYI -
is something that Friel emphasized again and again.
...volume...just isn't a good old guy answer.
__________________
Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
Regards,
Chuck
Demain, on roule!
03-15-15, 09:29 AM
#6285
Idiot Emeritus
Thread Starter
Very "ouchy" pace ride this morning. The ride followed a low cadence high power drill that Coach had me do yesterday. I felt it today. My legs were very achy and heavy, and my HR was 4 to 5 BPM higher than it should have been. My legs never opened up, and my HR never came down. It didn't help that the saddle is not quite right, yet, either (I really feel even little adjustments in bike fit these days). Then, when I got home I discovered that the rear brake was dragging slightly - again. Time to adjust that caliper, that happens too often.
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03-16-15, 11:17 PM
#6287
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Yes, quickly.
So it's confirmed that I'm faster going down, then up.........relatively speaking of course.
3 top ten strava's today. Not sure if it's verboten to mention strava in a racing forum, but I'm an odd duck anyway.
Going up is getting close to where I was last year. There will be no kom's for me on the up's however...........just as well.
So it's confirmed that I'm faster going down, then up.........relatively speaking of course.
3 top ten strava's today. Not sure if it's verboten to mention strava in a racing forum, but I'm an odd duck anyway.
Going up is getting close to where I was last year. There will be no kom's for me on the up's however...........just as well.
03-17-15, 10:43 AM
#6288
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Very "ouchy" pace ride this morning. The ride followed a low cadence high power drill that Coach had me do yesterday. I felt it today. My legs were very achy and heavy, and my HR was 4 to 5 BPM higher than it should have been. My legs never opened up, and my HR never came down. It didn't help that the saddle is not quite right, yet, either (I really feel even little adjustments in bike fit these days). Then, when I got home I discovered that the rear brake was dragging slightly - again. Time to adjust that caliper, that happens too often.
03-17-15, 10:45 AM
#6289
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Yes, quickly.
So it's confirmed that I'm faster going down, then up.........relatively speaking of course.
3 top ten strava's today. Not sure if it's verboten to mention strava in a racing forum, but I'm an odd duck anyway.
Going up is getting close to where I was last year. There will be no kom's for me on the up's however...........just as well.
So it's confirmed that I'm faster going down, then up.........relatively speaking of course.
3 top ten strava's today. Not sure if it's verboten to mention strava in a racing forum, but I'm an odd duck anyway.
Going up is getting close to where I was last year. There will be no kom's for me on the up's however...........just as well.
03-17-15, 10:24 PM
#6290
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03-18-15, 10:20 AM
#6291
Senior Member
The majority of my masters folks are on 2/1. Some do 3/1 during S & A and base, but they tend to be younger-ish.
I have some elite folks on 2:1 during parts of build, it's counter intuitive but they are higher cat folks doing very high intensity races.
I'm all over 2/1 myself and have been for the last 4 years. Past 50 3/1 just kills speed, enthusiasm, and ain't great for the immune system. I was 2nd twice at Gila to a former pro/multiple masters WC on 2/1 and 8-12 hours a week. Broken record, but volume, except in rare cases or guys doping, just isn't a good old guy answer.
The level and type of intensity should vary from person to person based on their physiology and racing goals, strengths and weaknesses, Etc, so answering the "what changes do you make going from 3/1 to 2/1" is a bit of a Zen riddle. My current spreadsheet has 79 workouts, a dozen of which have "plug in" time variables, because:
While I plan out the year into segments with goals and map out a "big picture" plan, I seldom do more than two weeks of day to day plans, and during build it's usually weekly. Life, illness, work, schedule changes, injury, and training response make doing more than that a bit of a waste of time. And everybody has different responses and recovery at different times during different cycles. Small tweaks here or there often end up yielding significant results. Listen to the athlete listening to their body, and figure out where their head is as well. Go from there.
I have some elite folks on 2:1 during parts of build, it's counter intuitive but they are higher cat folks doing very high intensity races.
I'm all over 2/1 myself and have been for the last 4 years. Past 50 3/1 just kills speed, enthusiasm, and ain't great for the immune system. I was 2nd twice at Gila to a former pro/multiple masters WC on 2/1 and 8-12 hours a week. Broken record, but volume, except in rare cases or guys doping, just isn't a good old guy answer.
The level and type of intensity should vary from person to person based on their physiology and racing goals, strengths and weaknesses, Etc, so answering the "what changes do you make going from 3/1 to 2/1" is a bit of a Zen riddle. My current spreadsheet has 79 workouts, a dozen of which have "plug in" time variables, because:
While I plan out the year into segments with goals and map out a "big picture" plan, I seldom do more than two weeks of day to day plans, and during build it's usually weekly. Life, illness, work, schedule changes, injury, and training response make doing more than that a bit of a waste of time. And everybody has different responses and recovery at different times during different cycles. Small tweaks here or there often end up yielding significant results. Listen to the athlete listening to their body, and figure out where their head is as well. Go from there.
Thanks a tonne
03-18-15, 09:27 PM
#6292
Senior Member
The plan was for 6 sweet spot intervals 6 minutes long with 3 min RBI
Ended up being six 9 min threshold effort hill repeats with 3 RBI
... never strayed further than 2 miles from the house
IF 0.9
TSS 107
Ended up being six 9 min threshold effort hill repeats with 3 RBI
... never strayed further than 2 miles from the house
IF 0.9
TSS 107
03-19-15, 12:39 PM
#6294
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Last edited by ColnagoC40; 03-19-15 at 12:48 PM.
03-20-15, 12:05 PM
#6296
Senior Member
1x20 min at 95% with 3:30 rest then 1x15 at FTP.
Nackered
Nackered
03-20-15, 08:19 PM
#6297
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I rode for the first time since surgery Wednesday. Hermes was kind enough to accompany me and give me the occasional push. Got in 1:30 the following day and a bit of climbing. Took today off.
Doc: We took the staples out, you can walk or ride a stationary bike
Me: How about a real bike
Doc: We are worried about you crashing
Me: How about if I don't crash
Doc: Well, I guess that would be OK.
Wife: (a couple of days later as I was replaying the conversation to our friends at dinner) And crashing is why he had surgery in the first place.
She has a point, but it was a grinding few days prior from too many angles. Getting back on the bike really helped.
Doc: We took the staples out, you can walk or ride a stationary bike
Me: How about a real bike
Doc: We are worried about you crashing
Me: How about if I don't crash
Doc: Well, I guess that would be OK.
Wife: (a couple of days later as I was replaying the conversation to our friends at dinner) And crashing is why he had surgery in the first place.
She has a point, but it was a grinding few days prior from too many angles. Getting back on the bike really helped.
03-20-15, 10:34 PM
#6298
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We were quite a pair since I just came off of a health matter speed bump over the weekend and I was not allowed to play football or soccer. Lucky for me football season is over and soccer is not my thing. We made a pact not to run into each other.
03-20-15, 10:42 PM
#6300
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I just finished a week long high milage training trip in Arizona. Fewer miles than intended due to weather issues, but a lot of quality training.
Now I have to rest & recover. Yuck.
Now I have to rest & recover. Yuck.