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Training for Racing All Disciplines

Old 04-15-15, 05:39 AM
  #6376  
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Originally Posted by Hermes
She can generate a lot of speed with not much power.

Last night I was in a 4-man break for 50 minutes with the NY 40+ TT champ, a super slippery guy who is smaller and much skinnier than me. We were contributing more or less equally. Maybe he was taking slightly longer pulls, but otoh his pulls were very consistent and efficient whereas I was a bit surgey and didn't pull off nearly as cleanly as he did, so that probably cancels out. Plus he was in a long sleeve skinsuit with deep wheels and looked like a minnow when he was on the front.

Anyway, my NP for the race was 20 watts less than his, which really surprised me. So obviously I'm getting a lot of value from being super low on the bike. I tried to focus on keeping my back flat and head down, as advised, but that awareness was a lot less present by the end of the race than it was at the start. If I can find a way to move things around a bit so I can make more power with sacrificing cda, I'll feel very good about that.
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Old 04-15-15, 05:42 AM
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It's all about adaptation.
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Old 04-15-15, 05:49 AM
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Not to beat this topic to death (but I'm high on racing!), but here's a photo of the break, crappy still from an iphone video. Sprinty, Junior, me, and Slippery. Slippery looks like he's just coming off a pull. I'm taller and ~20 lbs heavier than both Junior and Slippery. Sprinty, in front, is very big (6'3 maybe). My head is up :/






... from Skylands Cycling's FB page.

Last edited by globecanvas; 04-15-15 at 06:00 AM.
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Old 04-15-15, 07:40 AM
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GC, the photo didn't make it! Drat...
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Old 04-15-15, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by shovelhd
It's all about adaptation.
Amen

I love working on S&A and IMO, it is a key aspect for masters racers that want to do the sport for a long time.

@globecanvas My comments were addressing your question about pain. What I have found interesting about being an athlete for the last 60 years is that there are many ways to skin a cat and be a great athlete. You are having a lot of success racing and that is all about talent and hard work. Bike fit is much like having the perfect golf swing. Mechanics are a wonderful thing but the goal is to get the ball in the hole with the least amount of strokes. One can do it ugly or pretty. And ugly may not be so bad. And I am not implying that you look ugly on the bike. We are talking about mm of change.

In the Iron War, entropy and running is discussed. It was found that runners with the greatest entropy i.e. most motion and less pretty...think Dave Scott were the fastest. As fatigue sets in, entropy decreases and runners slow down.

Since we are constrained on the bike, measuring entropy is more difficult but I suspect it is similar.

The goal of my comments about posture is directed at the aspect of reducing shoulder and neck pain and protecting the joints at high power. And this too is probably a YMMV. Having said that, my shoulder and neck are a lot better and I am continuing to work on my posture on and off the bike.
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Old 04-15-15, 08:52 AM
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I also enjoy S&A work. It's just hard enough but not overtaxing, and has measurable benefit over time. I start my preseason training with large doses of it. There's not a lot of TSS/CTL with it so you're not going to impress the BF cognoscenti with time and numbers. It's foundational work that builds the base. I have also used it successfully to raise my FTP 50w for peaking, alternating S&A with intensity and rest.
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Old 04-15-15, 09:02 AM
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Regarding bike fit, it has taken me 2.5 years to perfect it on this frame.
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Old 04-15-15, 10:26 AM
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Cognoscenti... it has been a long time since I had to look up a word on BF.

Very apropos.
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Old 04-15-15, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Hermes
The goal of my comments about posture is directed at the aspect of reducing shoulder and neck pain and protecting the joints at high power. And this too is probably a YMMV. Having said that, my shoulder and neck are a lot better and I am continuing to work on my posture on and off the bike.

I understand. I had actually forgotten about the shoulder/elbow pain comments.

In case I haven't said it enough, I find all of this expert opinion to be incredibly valuable.
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Old 04-15-15, 10:52 AM
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Monday leg workout at gym and Tuesday FTP work on TT bike.

More on Q-rings. Racer Ex, my wife and I were pedaling around Marin on Saturday. R'Ex and I look like the Bobbsey Twins with our SRMs and Rotor Q-rings. One can imagine the love fest discussion that can ensue. I said, "I just love pedaling my bike." I do not want to stop. My mother would probably warn me that I could go blind doing that.

So how is it when I ride my TT bike with round rings? Effing amazing even at FTP.

Obviously, my brain is totally smitten with pedaling Q-rings and now cannot tell the difference between oval and round OR all the S&A is paying off and Q-rings were part of the process.
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Old 04-15-15, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Hermes
Cognoscenti... it has been a long time since I had to look up a word on BF.

Very apropos.
I'll try to keep things at the Mickey Mouse level in the future.
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Old 04-15-15, 04:41 PM
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S&a?
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Old 04-15-15, 04:42 PM
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Why does BF change capitalization without asking if you really wanted something in capital letters?
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Old 04-15-15, 05:13 PM
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Strength and Adaptation
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Old 04-19-15, 09:09 AM
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Really tough training ride with Ex, my team mate Heidi (who is back from a crash/pelvic fracture), and two other great riders, Heathpack, and Mike. I'm going to be doing the Mariposa Stage Race in May, which is an all woman race, all climbing, and Ex is whipping me into as much climbing shape as can be done (hey, I'm a sprinter). So, yesterday we did Kings Mountain/Tunitas Creek, which is a "back road" south of San Francisco. It goes over the spine of the mountains running along the coast. It's in a deep redwood forest, it's a very twisty, steep road with not much traffic (other than half the South Bay Area's cyclists), and was major fun. It was a warm day, not hot, but warm enough. Ex came up to me on the way up and teased me about how much I love climbing (because I was crawling along at 6 MPH). Actually, I don't mind climbing at all. I do it like a TT - slow! It hurts, I suffer, what's not to like? The descent on the way back into Woodside was very technical and some kind of awesome. I was taking it easy at first, right behind Heathpack, then Ex came around us (I don't how he can descend as fast as he does), so I passed Heathie and tried to bridge up to Ex, Heidi and Mike. Heidi and Mike I caught (but not too close, in case something happened), and Ex - I'd see him up there every now and then a turn or two ahead of us. I haven't had opportunity to descend like that in quite some time, in fact I pushed the Look harder than I ever have. Not uncomfortable, but probably 85 - 90%. I stepped the back wheel out a couple of times in bumpy corners under braking, but hey - no worries!

It was a hard, fun, day!

Then we drank beer and ate.

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Old 04-19-15, 09:22 AM
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Nice ride and great descending @sarals.

Tunitas Creek Rd:



Redwoods:

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Old 04-19-15, 06:30 PM
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Talent is being able to snap pics while descending a twisty single lane road at 40...

Totally impressed with the skill level in the group, and I have fairly high standards. I knew Sara could ride already, but it was very cool watching Heathpack and Heidi blast down the mountain past rec riders like they were out for a casual stroll. Super technical descents made easy.

I have some great athletes to work for.

Really enjoyable weekend to cap off a pretty decent training week (two in a row!) Seeing faint glimmers.
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Old 04-19-15, 07:51 PM
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I saw more than faint glimmers! You made climbing up that OMG section of Tunitas look easy

Thank you for those kind words!

BTW, it's too bad Heathie doesn't race. She'd be deadly in road races. We each do what we enjoy, that's what's so great about cycling, the diversity. She likes the enduro stuff, and she's pretty amazing at it. In a way, I'm glad I don't have to race her
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Old 04-19-15, 07:57 PM
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I did my first ride on my TT bike today since I revamped it. It has 3T Vola bars and a 165mm crankset on it now. My first impressions are: the bars are more comfortable than the ones it came with even though they need adjustment. The 165mm crankset was subtle. Under normal pedaling at a high cadence, they felt exactly like the 170's I had on it. When I got to a lower cadence, and when I went OTS is when I noticed a difference. My hips and plexors felt more relaxed, and I could push a higher cadence OTS than I could before. Hmmm.

Three interval sets today, high power. Yesterday I had doubts I could do it, and Ex said "see how you feel". I felt pretty good. I could tell I was little tired, my HR wouldn't go much past LTHR, but I hit the numbers. The second interval tapered off pretty severely in the last minute, but the third one went well.

If I could just find a magic formula to increase my aerobic engine, like double it...
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Old 04-20-15, 08:38 AM
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First ride of the year on the TT bike yesterday. 15 min warm up then 50 minutes of sweet spot. The other 1:40 was just endurance.

My knee, which got tweaked on March 1st, is still not as happy as I'd like to be. That's what I get for going to a crit. I knew better.
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Old 04-20-15, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by IBOHUNT
First ride of the year on the TT bike yesterday. 15 min warm up then 50 minutes of sweet spot. The other 1:40 was just endurance.

My knee, which got tweaked on March 1st, is still not as happy as I'd like to be. That's what I get for going to a crit. I knew better.
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Old 04-20-15, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by IBOHUNT
First ride of the year on the TT bike yesterday. 15 min warm up then 50 minutes of sweet spot. The other 1:40 was just endurance.

My knee, which got tweaked on March 1st, is still not as happy as I'd like to be. That's what I get for going to a crit. I knew better.
Rest is the best medicine for a bum knee. Been there too many times.

Went to my first PT appointment today. Good session. Crit tomorrow. Yeah, I know, I know.
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Old 04-24-15, 08:01 PM
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I haven't been posting here in a while...have in some other threads, but nothing that required serious thought. Family mega-stress got to the point where I quit in the middle of a set of intervals I was physically able to complete - just thought "Eff it, I just don't want to do this." I don't like myself much when I'm depressed. My coach was aware of the circumstances, and was okay with the idea of just riding around for a few days. Amazing what a tonic that can be.

Since then I've been pretty busy with intervals - O/Us with the under part threshold and the over part as hard as I can go, VO2 intervals with short RBI, etc. **** hurts. I like it. Tomorrow is 2x5 mile TTs, starting at just over threshold and adding ~5 watts each mile. Next day is 66 miles with lots of short (200-400 meter long) climbs. Both days replicate my next stage race, though only one TT at the race. Recovery week follows.

We've gone to shorter training blocks, but my race schedule doesn't permit nice two weeks on/one week off scheduling, so we're back-planning from the races and doing as well as we can. I've got more energy to do the intervals, so I'm happy with the change.

Things are looking up!
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Old 04-29-15, 05:55 PM
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Good to read Chuck!

Highest CTL since June of last year. 2:30 today, 4100' of climbing over the coast ridge to the ocean and back, Old La Honda, Stage, and Tunitas. 213 np. Fat burn: 1700kj on two cups of coffee and a bottle of sport drink. When I can do rides like this without bonking it's a good sign.

Racing Saturday. Cat's Hill. Crit with a 20% climb. Oh the huge manatee.
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Old 04-30-15, 07:44 AM
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Chuck! It's good to see you back!

I wish AzT would put in an appearance....

I'm doing two races this weekend. Neither really "counts", as far as I'm concerned. I'm looking at both as training at race pace. The first is a Bay Area Senior Games (non USAC) 20K road race on my local course, the CCCX Circuit (climbing). There are four (four!) women entered, all told. Two are team mates, the other is my training partner. We're each in different age categories. It will be fun, and it will be something more than a fast group ride, but with not much on the table, I doubt anyone will go really hard. If they do, I'll go after them

Sunday I'm racing a crit in Salinas, at the airport, on a course I train on every now and then. It will be a combined 3/4 field, and I'll be surprised if more than six women are in the field. I will be way overmatched as far as age, but so what. I have some specifics I want to do early in the race, before they wear me down. An attack or two, try to go off the front, just because, and then go on to finish the thing.

Because, with both of those races in my legs, I'm scheduled to do a three hour pace ride on Monday to simulate the third day of the stage race I'm doing in two weeks. I need some hard rides to lead up to a third day. My recovery from hard days on the saddle has been pretty good this year, so I think by the end of the week most of the effects of the hard stuff I do this weekend should be cleared. It will interesting to see how I respond!
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