sarals 

Heathie! What Chasm said. And this: once I have the TT bike set up for and ready to race, I don't change the back wheel. I use it on the trainer for the warmup as is. The only thing on the back of the bike that gets swapped is the skewer, because I use one on the trainer that's specifically intended for that use. I'm open to swapping front wheels, choosing which profile to use, but the back wheel I don't fool with. Trouble is lurking!

The normal thing to do, to me, would be to do what is least likely to screw up the bike.

chasm54

Sorry Sara, I deleted my post before I noticed that you had referenced it.
@Heathpack, I asked why you'd give yourself an avoidable task between warm-up and start, then deleted it when I realised that swapping the skewer is just as much work as swapping the wheel. But here's a thought. Take two bikes. Put the road bike on the trainer and use that for the warm up. Then you just have to climb on the TT bike and roll to the line. Mr Heathpack can pack up the road bike and trainer for you.

sarals 

JRA was on the schedule today. I put the Cosmic wheels on the (little used) Venge (after swapping cassettes, the Venge is SRAM Force 11), and hit the road for an hour and twenty or so and 21 miles. Just a really, really GOOD ride. The Venge is suuuu-weeeet with those Cosmics/IRC tubeless wheels on it. I felt just fine, definitely lighter (I am), and my power from RPE was decent. I was by myself, no wheel to hang on or to get shelter from, so everything I did was entirely on me. My HR, cadence and speeds per segment were right there with my averages over those roads, and I felt just fine. One thing I did notice was that warmup took a while, but whatever.

Rain tomorrow. Sitting out the cross race, going to the gym instead. Pen Velo team dinner tonight, goodie!!

Hermes

@Heathpack Must be Laura. Excellent racer...good luck.

With respect to trainers, I use an old wheel on the TT bike for warmup versus the disc. It is pretty fast to swap out the warmup wheel for the disc. I have used a road bike and although convenient, I prefer being able to warmup for some of the time in the aerobars.

valygrl

heh.

valygrl

I race almost every race with my trainer skewer on my bike. It's still on there now. I warmup on the trainer with whatever bike & wheel I'm racing. The less things i have to screw up in the always-flustered few minutes before the race, the better, for me.

I would probably do something different if I raced tubulars, but I race clinchers, so not worried about wearing them out.

Heathpack 

Thanks everybody. No idea really why I feel like the disc shouldn't go on the trainer. I guess it's something like I only have 1 disc so that makes it unique and I need to protect it, only use it for races. ??? And typically it would have better tires but in this case the tires are identical between the wheels in question.

Interesting comment @chasm54 about doing the warm up on a road bike, I hadn't thought of that. But the positions on the bike are different enough with different muscles engaged, it just seems to me like the warm up for a TT should be on the TT bike. And also interesting, @Hermes, your comment that you want to do some of your warm up on your aerobars. For the same reason (different position = different muscles engaged) I have assumed that it makes the most sense to do the entire warm up in aero, so that's what I've done so far.
@valygrl, I too ride with my trainer skewer all the time.

Totally sweet opener ride today on the Fiesta Island TT course. Wound up riding mid-day, it was sunny and the wind was picking up enough that we could have gone sailing. Probably 10-15 mph and this is a circular course, so that meant variably head winds, cross winds and tail winds. The head winds actually felt good after a week off the bike, the cross winds were nice for a little more experience with the deeper wheels and the tail wind was AWESOME because I got to go fast without even trying. Just a beautiful day, sunny and in the 70s. Simple little thing like an opener ride and it just hit the spot perfectly.

IBOHUNT

An Ex-ism

valygrl

I wanted to respond to this yesterday but forgot - I'm only at CTL>90 for a few days a year - right at the end of my big training camp weeks, when I go on vacation and just ride every day for a week. I don't know how I would have time to get that much TSS/week to stay in that zone, and I don't think it would be good for me either. But my CTL during the bulk of the race season was in the 70's and I think it was too low, and too flat - that was not my coach's fault, but my work schedule, I had to travel a lot this year for work and missed some training.

I've seen both you & sarals post really big numbers for your IFs for rides, I rarely get an IF>75 on a training ride, even if it's a hard one, b/c the warmup/cooldown brings it down so far. But I wonder if I'm just not testing often enough,and therefore using an artificially high LT # which brings my TSS down... or if my training is just way less hard than you guys. I know there's no point in comparing, really. I also know you train for & ride long distance events, and most of my races are 45 minute crits, so there's a big volume component, too.

</morning coffee ramble>

sarals 

Good ramble!

I don't do a lot of volume, most of my training is intensity oriented. The TSS I show is generated by Golden Cheetah for each ride I do. Whatever Strava does, I don't know, and I don't pay much attention to it.

Hermes

@valygrl FWIW, I do not get large IF values either.

Yesterday was a gorgeous day for the hill climb and last night rain arrived followed by high winds so today was indoors. I resurrected a trainer workout from my 2010 database. It is essentially a tempo workout with some pedaling drills. Since I will be at the track next Thursday and a TT on Saturday, I wanted to add a track component as well and train in the same position I will ride the TT.

I keep a database of Roger Young's Roger's Sessions track workouts and decided to also do a 24 minute Roger's interval session that is 4 X (2' z2, 3' z3, 20" z4 and 40" z1).

I did a warmup and then one leg pedaling drills. I followed that up with a cadence pyramid and then launched the 3x10 tempo efforts. For the final 24 minute interval, I picked a gear that would work for the entire range of efforts and used it spinning high cadence and high power for the 20" z4. I did the higher power efforts in the drops.

Fun session with some great tunes.

revchuck 

My wife and I went to church this morning...then she decided she wanted to go out to eat...then she decided she wanted to go shopping. I got a ride in, though the last half hour was after sunset. My lights still work, so I survived.

The plan was an easy Z2 ride. For whatever reason, my legs wouldn't do Z2 and I ended up in Z3. It just felt like that was the power level I should be putting out. 1:24, TSS 104, IF .86, 1037 kj. IF for the week is .87, though the rides were short. It still feels good to be able to do that.

sarals 

Strength workout in the gym this morning, and IT FELT SO GOOD! Oh, yeah, it did. I had the good ride yesterday, and then the good STR workout today. And I'm within 4 pounds of my goal. I guess I'm feeling that, yes? It's not affecting my strength, at all. Good, good stuff! Happy dance!

Heathpack 

I am sure the CTL relates to the type of cycling I was doing back last winter/spring- which was long distance stuff with lots of climbing. I like the volume but I'm not sure it's productive unless you really need it for the endurance events.

I am amazed sometimes at the intensity of the workouts. I used to look at them and think it was just wishful thinking on my coach's part. Then I kind of got used to the idea that if it was on my schedule I could probably do it. The intense stuff is sort of cleansing to me, I like it. But I do lot of lower intensity stuff too, you probably just don't notice that. All the workouts do have a 20 min warmup and 10 min cool down (except for the TTs which have a 40 min warm up and 20 min cool down). So the work periods can be pretty intense, given that the high IF workouts are usually 1.5 to 2 hrs including the 30 min for warm up & cool down.

I have not ridden very many tests either, so I'm not sure there's a huge difference there. I guess what really matters is are we each ready for what we're attempting to do cycling-wise? I always feel prepared- some of that is me (I spend a lot of time thinking and asking questions and scouting courses and studying up) and some of that is my coach (who knows how to get me where I want to go and can also has the ability to see the big picture and read me better than I can at times). So I feel like my training is right.

It seems to me that you had a very good race season and that makes me assume that you are also in good hands from a coaching perspective. I agree that comparing one person's training to another's makes almost no sense because it depends so much on the context- what your goals are, what time you have available, how you're responding to training, how long you've been at it, etc. In the end, it doesn't really matter how you get where you're going, but whether you are getting there efficiently.

I guess. But what do I know anyway?

Racer Ex 

A quick word on load metrics(CTL/ATL/TSB/TSS/Etc). They are imperfect algorithms that produce numbers that proximate training load and fatigue. They are no more indicators of good performance than the phase of the moon. If (a big if) you use them within a broad context of factors they can be helpful guides to direct and adjust training. But there is no good or bad number, even within the aforementioned context for a good performance.

I've had athletes ask me what they think their CTL will be at "X" point in time, or what I number I am looking at getting them to before an event. My answer is to shrug. That's a dumb way to train. There is no "magic" number.

I have athletes who race as good at 100 CTL as they do at 50. Because we are talking about different time periods during the season. Or different races or events.

You can develop the exact same numbers doing endless 15 MPH rides as you can doing V02 max intervals or TT work. And you can go into a race stale and exhausted or ripping the pedals off with the same numbers.

Having athletes who have contended or won nationally at everything from 1 minute races to 2 hour races, and having been pretty successful in that broad spectrum, the numbers matter only as part of a broader spectrum of things, and only after having some historical perspective within that broader spectrum.

shovelhd

Ex makes great points, which he does most of the time . When it comes to numbers, load, wattage, mileage, whatever, the 33 can be a somewhat toxic place, especially to a new racer. As in all pro sports, numbers are part of an athlete's resume and are ingrained in their ego. There's lots of people in the 33 that live to throw out numbers to validate themselves, and to share amongst themselves as sort of a mutual suffer society. Take all that for what it's worth. Numbers do not define the athlete, they only help set up guardrails so they don't ride off a cliff.

valygrl

Thanks for the comments ex & shovel. I guess I need the reminder not to get too hung up on the numbers. Perils of being a db programmer & data analyst for a living, i guess.

sarals 

Word.

Right. On.

From both you and Ex.

Podiums speak far louder than metric numbers.

IBOHUNT

The amount of wisdom and knowledge round these parts is awesome and I for one thank all ya'll.
I've found my place and have not stepped into the 33. Reckon I'll just stay here with my feet up.

Thanks

chasm54

Step away from the moonshine, my friend, it's making you emotional.

(For the avoidance of doubt, the above is what passes for British humour. We can't deal with these public expressions of warmth, you see...)

sarals 

The 33 is "Right Into the Danger Zone". Good on ya, IBO!

sarals 

Group ride with my partner Barb this morning. I got nothin'. Two days off the bike, which means, generally, that the first day back is sucky. It was sucky. I did okay, but heavens to Betsy, if I had to race in a crit right now I'd be blown out the back so fast that I'd think my chain came off. Am I worried? That's a big thing that experience has given me - no, I'm not. It will come back! Ex knows the formula, so do I, and life goes on. Just shutup and peddle your bike, Sara.... And HTFU.

shovelhd

And you know what? If you started that crit and fought to stay in the group, give it ten minutes and you'd be kicking it.

sarals 

I think you're right. It reminds me, I'm missing racing crits right now.

Heathpack 

Recovery ride for me on Monday- on the trainer because of high winds. Had a fine time though, I actually like the trainer.

Yesterday was supposed to be a climbing ride on the TT bike. The plan was to ride solo, starting at 4:30am. But then the weather forecast was calling for temps in the 30s and wind gusts in the 50-60 mph range. I was torn between trying to do some sort of climbing simulation on the trainer vs hoping I could get out of work early enough to get in a road ride before sunset. I opt for the road ride and actually wrap up my day by mid-afternoon. Then I get stuck in traffic. But still enough time to ride I think. Then I head out & 10 min later my Edge 1000 locks up. Ride home & swap it out for the Edge 510. Which can't see my HRM no matter how much I fiddle with it. Screw it, I don't have time for this, gotta get going. I think maybe I should grab my headlight but it takes a little more time to set that up on the TT bike & I don't have time for that. So off I go to do my ride. Twelve miles to the start of my climb and it's getting pretty twilighty at this point. But I'm thinking it's just because I've got 5 miles to go in a canyon which is oriented north-south, the sun is just getting blocked by the canyons walls. I'm in complete denial about the fact that the sun is setting, as soon as I turn into the next canyon, I'm going to be heading straight into the sun and it will be fine. Did I mention that I'm just wearing a lightweight short sleeved jersey because it was 65 degrees when I first started leaving my house?

Eventually, I get 3ish miles into my canyon (where I've just laid down a very nice above-threshold interval) and now it's dark. Even cutting my route short, I'm maybe 10 miles from home. Streetlights? None. Temps? Dropping. Cell reception? None usually. But I pull out my phone and unbelievably I have cell reception. Call my husband but he's a 20 min drive away. It's cold so I tell him I'm going to keep riding, heading towards home through the canyon, he can pick me up wherever he comes upon me. I'm not really able to see much, this canyon is rollers so the climbs aren't bad but the descents are very dicey. The only saving grace is that there's a fair amount of traffic (fortunately I have my super-bright blinky). Cars that get stuck behind me illuminate the road quite well. Cars coming towards me either blind me with their high beams or give me some light to see by. (Pro tip: stare at the white fog line and don't look into the head lights of the oncoming cars). Zero shoulders on this road and some broken pavement but I ride this canyon a lot & know most of the permanent hazards. The danger is loose rocks fallen into the road from the hillsides and debris from the windstorm. But I pick my way through and meet up with my ride at the end of the canyon.

Frustrating because I was in the zone and loving my TT bike until the sun set. Totally dangerous ride to boot. Yeah I know: don't do that again. Got it.

Fun group ride this morning with my Nightcrawler friends. 4:30am start and average temp was 37 degrees. My toes were totally frozen despite toe covers and thick wool socks. But otherwise I was fine temp-wise in shorts, knee warmers, tights over both, wool turtleneck base layer, my thickest long sleeve jersey, windbreaker and full finger gloves. As stupid as I am about riding at sunset, I'm a sunrise pro. Coffee afterward and good conversation, a 17 year old badass Danish cyclist is staying with one of my friends. Very interesting to hear how 100% serious his training is and about his perfect nutrition. He doesn't want to do any of the local group rides anymore because he doesn't like the regroups. Wasted time in his mind.

Off tomorrow then openers on Friday.