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  1. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapwithtom View Post
    Yellow lines? I never noticed any, let alone paid attention to any.

    It's a crit. According to the USAC rules, a sanctioned crit has to allow the entire width of the road.
    Yeah, obviously there was no yellow line rule, but people were acting as if there was.

    Good point about the danger of being outside on that corner. Maybe a little different for me, not being in the middle of a big group, but definitely something to think about in the future. Choice between that risk and the risk of being curbed on the inside.
    ...

  2. #627
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    I hope soon means after we get this series wrapped up.
    Calm down.

  3. #628
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapwithtom View Post
    Yellow lines? I never noticed any, let alone paid attention to any.

    It's a crit. According to the USAC rules, a sanctioned crit has to allow the entire width of the road.
    Not true. A crit does not even have to be on a closed course.

    A crit is usually on a closed course, and usually allows the full width of the road for the entire course, but there is nothing mandating this in the rules.

  4. #629
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    "3D. Criterium
    3D1. A criterium is a closed-loop course entirely closed to
    traffic. The length of the course is between 800 m and 5 km.
    The minimum width throughout the course should be 7 m."

    A year ago you told me to read the rule book...and I did.

  5. #630
    So it is LAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapwithtom View Post
    Funny my assessment is the opposite of LAJ's even though we were in the same race and around each other a lot.

    I tried throughout the race to try different lines/places in the pack for each of the corners.

    I like the inside line on that corner because of 2 reasons: a) I felt like immediately after the corner, it was consistently the easiest spot of the entire race to move up on the RHS of the pack as there was almost always a lot of space there; and b) you know I thought that the most dangerous turn on the course; therefore, the last place I want to be is on the outside of the pack in said turn. Oh, also, upon exiting that turn on the outside, I frequently got pinched and had to brake, which is always annoying at the bottom of a hill.
    That is awesome. I had the same issue when I was inside. I was able to carry speed out there, and I was able to arc in late, and somewhat straighten out the decreasing radius aspect. Of course, I had been tightroping in and along the gutter the whole race, so I guess I got used to it.

  6. #631
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Shovel, awesome work this past weekend! I hope Gary lets you stand on the podium really soon!
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  7. #632
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapwithtom View Post
    "3D. Criterium
    3D1. A criterium is a closed-loop course entirely closed to
    traffic. The length of the course is between 800 m and 5 km.
    The minimum width throughout the course should be 7 m."

    A year ago you told me to read the rule book...and I did.
    There are exceptions to every rule. The local permitting official can allow racing a crit on an open course and enforce the yellow line rule for whatever part of the course makes sense. Bethel has been run for decades on an open course with a yellow line rule until the last 300m or so. Wells Ave. and Montague also run on an open course, no yellow line rule. The race goes neutral if a car is on the course. Attacking during a neutral period is frowned upon and may cost the rider later in the race.

  8. #633
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarals View Post
    Shovel, awesome work this past weekend! I hope Gary lets you stand on the podium really soon!
    While written in jest...We need to button up our podium places in this series. Next year is the 20 year anniversary of our team and we need to make sure we've got money. For better or worse it's the way things are and the sponsor likes to see results from me. On the flip side, outside of a dog fight of a series, my presence takes pressure off folks to make things happen solo or from breaks. Plus, in a support role I really can shut things down. I often prefer that as it's fun to demonstrate the strength of the team that way. Having multiple options. Last year at this time we had this thing locked down and I was able to ride for other people on the team. Our second place finisher was able to hang on to that because I chased down the would be aspirers to that step on the podium. It was nice to be able to repay him for his work in that way.

    Hopefully we can execute old school shut the race down tactics. Sit on everything and bring it all back. A field sprint might put the series out of reach and free guys up to take some flyers.

  9. #634
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    There are exceptions to every rule. The local permitting official can allow racing a crit on an open course and enforce the yellow line rule for whatever part of the course makes sense. Bethel has been run for decades on an open course with a yellow line rule until the last 300m or so. Wells Ave. and Montague also run on an open course, no yellow line rule. The race goes neutral if a car is on the course. Attacking during a neutral period is frowned upon and may cost the rider later in the race.
    huh. Interesting. Branchbrook isn't listed as a crit, nor is Floyd Bennet (that I know of). Those meet that description (even being closed). I always thought it was because they were 2+ mile laps.

  10. #635
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    Got an email from the Barking Spider MTB race promoter today. Seems my initial thought crossing the line, was the correct one.




    Nice to win one before I become a podium challenged Cat1. Speaking of which, better get off my ass, and out the door.

    (54f-wind 30w/gusts to 38).

    The fast guys are already training.

  11. #636
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    There are exceptions to every rule. The local permitting official can allow racing a crit on an open course and enforce the yellow line rule for whatever part of the course makes sense. Bethel has been run for decades on an open course with a yellow line rule until the last 300m or so. Wells Ave. and Montague also run on an open course, no yellow line rule. The race goes neutral if a car is on the course. Attacking during a neutral period is frowned upon and may cost the rider later in the race.
    Ahh got it. And since I rode Bethel a few weeks ago perhaps I should have already connected these dots.

  12. #637
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    huh. Interesting. Branchbrook isn't listed as a crit, nor is Floyd Bennet (that I know of). Those meet that description (even being closed). I always thought it was because they were 2+ mile laps.
    The race has to be permitted as either a road race (circuit race is the same) or a crit as the upgrade points are different for each. Aki knows way more than I do about this, maybe he'll chime in. My comments are based on my racing experience.

  13. #638
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    yeah, I don't know this stuff at all. But if something isn't a crit I'm staying home

  14. #639
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    All should know that when gsteinb takes a shot across my bow and I fire back, it's all in jest. He loves to tell people to calm down, so when I get a chance to throw it back, I do.

    I had quite a few teams wanting me to join them for 2013, all are good, but it really wasn't much of a decision. Racing with gsteinb and his guys is rewarding in a different way than racing solo. The team has a lot of history. The main sponsors are famous people. At Bethel, before racing even started, we were the team to beat. That alone is a great opportunity. In the tri-state M50+ races, if I'm up the road, I will get help. I know it. My time will come. I am not concerned.

    With two weekends left, we are in 1st and 2nd. 3rd place is one point back (my mark), 4th is three points back, 5th is five points back. Points are 7-5-4-3-2-1. So it is by no means sewn up. Anything can happen. Lots of work left to do.

    Besides, when we split the million bucks 8 ways, everybody's happy.

  15. #640
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    yeah, I don't know this stuff at all. But if something isn't a crit I'm staying home
    You're not coming to Quabbin?

  16. #641
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    Not sure yet. there's a solid mid NJ crit that I won last year on Sunday. I beat Brian Walton in it. If we were in the same field that would sway me, but with you racing your age and me racing my age I start to think about being a bit closer to home and circles in a corporate park.

  17. #642
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    You know, even though I am on a team, I'm not really part of it. It's all about the boys. The other (two or three) women who ride for us, race for other teams. I never see them, and if I do, they're different categories. Just the same, I am proud of the boys, they do a heck of job and they're stellar athletes. Shovel and Gsteinb, I don't know where my team stands as far as championships go, we seem to take a shotgun approach and race any and everything. No matter.

    This is not me, not my race, but it's from The Bison, one of our really strong riders - he writes well, too. This was his race at the CCCX course on Saturday:

    "35+ 1/2/3

    I left the house right on time for a change and got a nice sweat worked up on the 9.5 miles from my house to the race site. That's right, I refuse to drive to a local race. Riding to a race fully suited up is the best way to warm-up..plus you don't have to attempt yoga positions to change inside of a car. The 35+ field was at least 30 riders, the largest field I've ever seen at a CCCX course. I was the only MBRT rider in this race, but our local guy Ben, in his new Zipz kit was also with me. The field was star studded with National Champ Matt Cannio showing off his stars & stripes kit...as well as bay area strongman Nick Theobold and Larry Nolan.


    February and March were record training hours for me, for the last 4-5 seasons. So I just came out of a much needed easy 2 weeks of riding. Apparently, I timed it right, as my fitness/energy felt great on Saturday morning. Unfortunately, when I'm feeling fit, I can be a bit too active in a race. The first lap around the course was an all-time record for me, 10min30sec..and I attempted twice to bridge to two break attempts.. After another lap of fooling around, I decided I better just forget about a breakaway and settle into the field. When we came around for what would usually be 3 laps to go, we saw a 4 lap to go card instead....our laps were so quick, we needed an additional lap to make 75 mins...for a total of 7. By 2 laps to go, we settled into a slightly more steady tempo. With a lap top go, I edged my way into 5th or 6th place through the S/F line. About halfway up the hill on the backside, I looked to my left in the echelon and none other was Matt Cannio sitting in my draft. This is not the first time I've witnessed him take shelter behind The Bison... Matt launched an unbelievably strong attack of my wheel, I stood up and tried to match him, but even 1100watts wasn't enough to hold his wheel. I blew up around the crest...while another 7 riders slipped into his draft. This was THE move..they had about a 10-15 second gap as we started descending. I kinda let me emotions get a hold of me and decided I wasn't racing for 9th.....I proceeded to pull the remaining 5-6 riders back to the split and then blew up at the top of the final roller....kinda stupid of me, but screw 9th place. I feel I'm in the hunt for sure..."
    Last edited by sarals; 04-08-13 at 06:48 PM.
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  18. #643
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Sara going OTF at CCCX. Can we say quantum leap? I bet we can.

    I got a pretty big smile at that. You really do need to come down for the SG's.

  19. #644
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Masters Misc Race Report Thread

    Ex, yeah I had one of those what the hell why not moments! I'm waiting for my June work schedule, and if its favorable, I'll come down to the PSG.
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  20. #645
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    Sagebrush Scramble Mtb. Race.

    Pro/open Cat1 and All Cat1(age grouping)
    Pancake flat, short-track.
    40 minuets +2 laps
    My first race as a Cat1.

    The wind was howling at 30-35mph. I missed the lead group at the start, and ended up battling the wind by myself for 90% of the race. The course is a super fun short track, with lots of berms and linked twisties. Effort wise, It really reminded me of a cross race without barriers and sand pits. I finished 2nd out of 4 or 5 in the 50+, and probably mid-pack overall. My teammate won the overall, and another was 2nd. Good times.


    p.s. seems nobody noticed my Escalade..........sniffle, sniffle,.....shrug..........sniffle.

  21. #646
    Old Road Racer Cleave's Avatar
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    Spring has sprung in Idaho? I figured that you still had a bunch of snow on the ground.

    Also, for me, fun, dirt, racing don't compute.

    Fun and a good result.
    Thanks.
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  22. #647
    Senior Member Colonelmom's Avatar
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    Battenkill, women's 3/4
    IN a word PAIN... the course is very demanding.. and there are no FLAT portions of the race, you're either going UP.. or down.. and I'm not a climber and you add in the DIRT makes for a very interesting race.
    This was my first attempt at a RR this long... IT was awesome to be in a 50 women peleton where 25 mph feels like 15 and every one is chatting.. just spinning along...
    I made it 1/2 way up the fist dirt section before I Popped off the back, my HR was 176 I just could hold the pace up the hill.. BUT I'm happy I finished.. I was NOT DFL and I'm sure I had at least 20 years on most the field, so finishing today I'm Happy...
    Now back to my normal FLAT land crits :-) where I stand a chance of staying in the field.
    Last edited by Colonelmom; 04-13-13 at 08:30 PM. Reason: mis spelling

  23. #648
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Colonelmom, great result! Hey, add some hills to your training, and you'll BE a climber, I guarantee it!

    Nacler, I saw your Escalade - story?
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  24. #649
    So it is LAJ's Avatar
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    Nice, nacler. Course, I didn't put 2 and 2 together. Well done, and congrats on the upgrade. That's huge.

    Way to hang in there, Colonelmom! Great job.
    Last edited by LAJ; 04-13-13 at 09:58 PM.

  25. #650
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    Cleave,
    We've been snow free in the Treasure Valley since early Feb./late Jan, which is pretty much the norm. The wind has been the devil this year. As for the dirt, I wish my mom had let me play in it sooner.

    Colonelmom,
    Nice. Like many have said, I'd love to do Battenkill, if only to say that I'd finished.

    Sara,
    Sorry, I'm rather obtuse at times. The Escalade was supposed to represent a "dirty Cadillac". My lame way of bragging about my first win in a Mtb. XC race.


    Edit: Thanx LAJ.

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