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  1. #51
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    IMO, better to get out there and get some experience than to wait for the perfect scenario. But then, I'm the jump in over your head and start swimming hard type.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  2. #52
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Here is a pic from the LAVRA Time Trials 500 meter standing start that yielded my 39.37 PR plus new wheels on my Planet X. My form is not bad but I need more work on increasing power generation.

    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  3. #53
    Senior Member ericm979's Avatar
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    Yea, Sara's crit was like if I lined up at a crit with RacerX and Shovelhd.

    Sara, you should do the early bird series in January. Make time to do it. It's really useful for new racers. They have mentors and instruction.

    Also, you don't need to tow other riders around unless there's a reason to do so. Ask them to work with you. Most people who are OTB will do so, but they'll also sit in and rest if they're allowed to.

  4. #54
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericm979 View Post
    Yea, Sara's crit was like if I lined up at a crit with RacerX and Shovelhd.

    Sara, you should do the early bird series in January. Make time to do it. It's really useful for new racers. They have mentors and instruction.

    Also, you don't need to tow other riders around unless there's a reason to do so. Ask them to work with you. Most people who are OTB will do so, but they'll also sit in and rest if they're allowed to.
    When something does not go as planned in a race such as OTB, the first thing to do is check what resources you have available. Of course, one is how much do you have in the tank to chase the field. In this case, they were gone so the next step is to see who is behind you. Slow down and check out the situation. If they want to work together great and if not, slow down until you are behind them and follow their wheel.

    Reenter the pack. Watch for the pack and when they come around get back on. You may get popped off the back again but at least you get some experience racing with the pack. Let them come around and repeat. As long as the officials allow you on the course, you can get back on the field. It is their job to keep track of racers' laps.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  5. #55
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericm979 View Post
    Yea, Sara's crit was like if I lined up at a crit with RacerX and Shovelhd.

    Sara, you should do the early bird series in January. Make time to do it. It's really useful for new racers. They have mentors and instruction.

    Also, you don't need to tow other riders around unless there's a reason to do so. Ask them to work with you. Most people who are OTB will do so, but they'll also sit in and rest if they're allowed to.
    Ericm, I like it! I don't how much of series I can do, but I am looking for just such a thing! Thank you!!
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  6. #56
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    Reenter the pack. Watch for the pack and when they come around get back on. You may get popped off the back again but at least you get some experience racing with the pack. Let them come around and repeat. As long as the officials allow you on the course, you can get back on the field. It is their job to keep track of racers' laps.
    So, it IS allowed? For some reason, I'm under the impression/assumption that once (I) go OTB and lapped, that's it - stop racing and stay out of the way. That's what I was doing!
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  7. #57
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    I do not think that Watsonville was a good test for Sara. There was only one women's race offered and it had the Exergy (UCI pro team) and Vanderkitten women as well as other Cat 1 women. It would be similar if I raced in an elite 1,2 race and a couple of UCI domestique pros showed up and lit up the pace and there was a small climb. I would get spit out the back in a similar manner. If she enters a Cat 4 women's flat crit, she will do much better.

    Also, we have the early bird series of practice races with mentors that his held in the early part of the season. They offer skills and racing where the goal is learning to race.
    Hermes, thanks! I've entered the Petaluma Crit in August, where the fields promise to be bigger - maybe I can get a Cat 3/4 field to ride in (without the ringers)!
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  8. #58
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    Sara - Just in case you need more evidence that your first crit experience is normal:

    http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...0#post14496730
    "Substantial percentage of people get dropped in their first crit.

    Typically it's either because 1) they don't have the fitness/training to deal with the repeated accelerations, 2) they don't know how to race, and get dropped by being in the wrong place wrong time, expending unecessary energy etc., or 3) a combination of 1 and 2.

    Doing some races takes care of the second reason. Training, particularly doing some short intervals on short rest, takes care of the first.

    Its not unusual for people dropped in their first race or two to be competitive after they get a few under their belt."



    Did the OP write that for me? Seriously, that's hitting the nail squarely on my head. The responses following that post was equally important. AzT, thank you!
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  9. #59
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarals View Post
    So, it IS allowed? For some reason, I'm under the impression/assumption that once (I) go OTB and lapped, that's it - stop racing and stay out of the way. That's what I was doing!
    When you are down a lap, you can't assist a breakaway, but you can join the pack:

    3D4. Riders who have lost contact with the field, and are then caught by a breakaway from the field, may not lead [disqualification]. Riders off the front of the field may not accept assistance from riders who have lost contact with the back of the field [disqualification for accepting such assistance]. Lapped riders may rejoin and race with the field.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  10. #60
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarals View Post
    Hermes, thanks! I've entered the Petaluma Crit in August, where the fields promise to be bigger - maybe I can get a Cat 3/4 field to ride in (without the ringers)!
    Sara, If you registered and you are not in a Cat 3/4 field then you will not get a Cat 3/4 field to ride in.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  11. #61
    Old Road Racer Cleave's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Anyone heard of this guy?

    http://www.kineticloop.org/

    Mike Lovegren spoke at our club meeting last night. I agreed with or liked almost everything he said about his approach to bike fit and biomechanics. Unfortunately, the very small amount with which I disagreed was at the beginning of his talk.

    Oops, I meant to put this in the training thread.
    Last edited by Cleave; 07-19-12 at 03:16 PM. Reason: Put post in wrong thread
    Thanks.
    Cleave
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  12. #62
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    How lapped riders are handled can be a promoter or Chief Official's call as well. That rule isn't strictly adhered to. If safety is a concern, a lapped rider may be pulled.

  13. #63
    Old Road Racer Cleave's Avatar
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    I find that for big races (read large purse, championship race, or a race with a lot of history), officials will pull lapped riders. Officials tend to show some "leniency" at smaller races, assuming the course is reasonably wide and not too technical.

    As far as your fellow racers go, if you are lapped and you hang at the back you won't get any flack. If you start mixing in with the field, other may yell at you -- assuming they noticed you got lapped.

    My experience with lapped riders is that they generally got lapped for a reason and if they move to the middle of the pack, they will probably open a gap. I've yelled at people for that reason. If they are at the back and I end up behind them then that's my problem.
    Thanks.
    Cleave
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  14. #64
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    They chose not to pull out of contention riders for our state Crit championship and, unfortunately, we were lapping a couple in the final corner. People have typically already started sprinting there. The riders being lapped didn't stay to the right. It was a mess, and someone went down. I was able to get by inside of him, but just barely. Had we been passing them anywhere else, it wouldn't have been an issue, but...

    Bottom line on the rule is that, if they haven't pulled you, jump on the back of the pack. If you can stay there, chances are you won't get pulled. If you are back by yourself, you are more likely to get the crook. The officials understand people want to stay in the race, and they balance that against the safety of the pack, and confusion for the scorers.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  15. #65
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    I prefer it when officials aggressively pull lapped riders, as in you're 1/2 lap down and in no shape to bridge the gap. It's safer for everyone. The exceptions are training races and Cat5. With the new rule, some leniency is justified. That's my two cents and I'm sticking to it.

  16. #66
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    Sara, If you registered and you are not in a Cat 3/4 field then you will not get a Cat 3/4 field to ride in.
    Hermes, I registered as a Cat 4....
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  17. #67
    Senior Member ericm979's Avatar
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    It looks like the august edition of the race has a 3/4 field. The july 29th edition has a cat 4 field. When I follow the links on NCNCA for the august race it takes me to the reg page for the july race. Sara's reged for the cat 4s on the 29th.

    Normally you register for a field that's appropriate for your age and cat. And then at registration they verify that you're legal for that field. If you sign up for the wrong field then they'll catch it at reg and move you. If there are any spots open (not normally a problem for women).

  18. #68
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericm979 View Post
    It looks like the august edition of the race has a 3/4 field. The july 29th edition has a cat 4 field. When I follow the links on NCNCA for the august race it takes me to the reg page for the july race.

    Normally you register for a field that's appropriate for your age and cat. And then at registration they verify that you're legal for that field. If you sign up for the wrong field then they'll catch it at reg and move you. If there are any spots open (not normally a problem for women).
    Eric, I had the same issue. I registered for the event without reading the date on the BikeReg page, and accidentally ended up registering for the July 29th race, which I can't make. I've emailed the promoter and asked her to move me to the August 11th event. Yes, it's a Cat 3/4 field. I talked to the owner of the LBS in Lakeport and he told me that from his experience the turnout for that race is "pretty good". I'm hoping I can actually race in a true Cat 3/4 field (although I'm sure I'll be the Grandma again).
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  19. #69
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    I raced a local crit this evening. It was the 3rd week of the 4 week series. I was out of town for the first two weeks and will miss next weeks finale due to racing in the state senior games. It was a smaller field of B racers that included some Cat 3's. The course has some twisty/tight turns which keeps the field strung out until the long back stretch. The course is laid out in the parking lot of a mega church. They use the crit for a fund raiser and for good will.

    One team had numbers and would send a rider OTF. I waited several times for strong riders to bridge up and if it looked promising I bridged up too. We never could get organized as the other riders kept expecting the team rider to work. With 5 laps to go we were all back together and I sat in about 4-6th to get some recovery. We started the last lap into the turns and the organized team got into the first 3 spots. Through the turns I made some good passes and got 3rd wheel. The guy in 2nd started to block allowing the leader to get a nice gap. I was able to move into 2nd going into the last turn and came out sprinting for the last 500 meters. I had a good gap on the chasers but started to slow with 100m to go. I got passed just before the line by one of the team guys and ended up 3rd as well as winning a preme. More $ for the racing retirement party fund.
    Last edited by Allegheny Jet; 07-20-12 at 06:12 AM.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  20. #70
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Way to go, Jet!
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  21. #71
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Nice teamwork, AJet.

  22. #72
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    AJ, great result - congrats!!!
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  23. #73
    Senior Member dadof7's Avatar
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    Good job AJ. What race was that?

  24. #74
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dadof7 View Post
    Good job AJ. What race was that?
    It's the Chaple race in Green. You can get info on the Stark Velo web site. There still is one more race next Thur.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  25. #75
    Senior Member dadof7's Avatar
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    thanks, i could do that one....slowly.

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