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  1. #151
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarals View Post
    AJ, if I turned around and saw you behind me looking like that, I bail off the bike for cover!



    oldschool areodynamic brick

  2. #152
    Old Road Racer Cleave's Avatar
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    AJ, mountain bike TT? Isn't that what all cross country races eventually become? You sure think of novel ways to torture yourself. Good job! BTW, our local road TTs are usually to the nearest second. Were they using timing chips?
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  3. #153
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleave View Post
    AJ, mountain bike TT? Isn't that what all cross country races eventually become? You sure think of novel ways to torture yourself. Good job! BTW, our local road TTs are usually to the nearest second. Were they using timing chips?
    No timing chips. We started in one part of the park and finished up on the other side. The starter used a spread sheet to line us up then his watch to send us off. The finish line had a some photo timer that they used to establish the finish time. Not exact but it could have worked in my favor just as much as against. MTB'ers are pretty laid back and cool about things. When I passed guys all I had to do was announce "passing" as I came up and they got off the trail and would say things like "nice job!" as I passed.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  4. #154
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Still feeling banged up, with a sore shoulder, back and tight leg muscles from the MTB crash and nailing deck boards all day Monday at the Velodrome, I decided to do the B race at the Tue World's last night. It was the next to last race of the season and two teams with riders in the point’s contention were well represented. It was a smaller field of around 25 riders and I had no team mates in the race. During the race instructions it was stated that there would be 2 primes x double points primes during the race as the standings were very close for the first 5 riders, who were all there. I monitored my body and after a few laps felt loose and warmed up enough that I decided to attack often and get into any break then work to stay away. The first attack I was in was just after the first prime which was contested by only one rider who told me later he was in 4th place and needs every point he could get. I had bridged up to him with 4 other riders that included his team mate. It ended up that only 2 of us were working so we both sat up. One of the riders that didn't work in the break is the point’s leader so I understood why he sat on our wheel.

    As the race went on I attacked three more times and the only guys who went were the guys in the point chase and another guy 3 years older than me. Each of the times I attacked it was me, the older guy and the point’s leaders. I then figured that I wasn't going to get away from those two teams due to the points race. A few laps later the older guy and a rider from one of the points leader teams went up the road just before the A field passed us. Once the A’s were clear the two had about 100 meters on us and I decided to wait for the other team to pull us all up to the leaders. The B race only scores 3 places and I figured it was only a matter of time before they chase. With 5 of the 2.1 mile laps left to go there was still no chase. I decided to make a go of it and went OTF and a few guys chased and we began to take rotations until once again only 2 of us were working. WTF?, the top two places are up the road and the points leader is actively blocking. Once again we sat up and we all went back to the field. With 2 laps to go they announced another prime and the original rider in 4th place went out on his own and took the prime while the pack watched him go. So now on the final lap; all 3 places are up the road and the point’s leader team is riding tempo on the front with no one on their team up ahead. I decided to make the best of the race and get in a good workout by going long in the field sprint for nothing else but ego points. With about a 1/3 lap to go I went out outside and nailed it OTS to get away. I could see in the shadows that a few guys were close to me once I sat and started to it hammer home. I was able to keep a sustained pace of 525-600 watts for what seemed like forever. When I got to the 200 marker I convinced myself that I did what I wanted to do and didn’t need to finish OTS. That was a poor decision as two riders rolled passed me with 50 meters to go. One of the guys was the point’s leader. As we were coasting down he made a smart assed-comment to me about helping him win the championship. I said “you’re welcome, but you took 4th”. Oh well, 6 guys on the team and none can count to 3? The guy who took both primes and 3rd place is now tied for the overall.

    At least I got a 1:28 sprint in @ 592 ave watts, just wish I would have HTFU’d and went OTS for the last 150 meters.
    Last edited by Allegheny Jet; 08-22-12 at 11:26 AM.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  5. #155
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegheny Jet View Post
    Still feeling banged up, with a sore shoulder, back and tight leg muscles from the MTB crash and nailing deck boards all day Monday at the Velodrome, I decided to do the B race at the Tue World's last night. It was the next to last race of the season and two teams with riders in the point’s contention were well represented. It was a smaller field of around 25 riders and I had no team mates in the race. During the race instructions it was stated that there would be 2 primes x double points primes during the race as the standings were very close for the first 5 riders, who were all there. I monitored my body and after a few laps felt loose and warmed up enough that I decided to attack often and get into any break then work to stay away. The first attack I was in was just after the first prime which was contested by only one rider who told me later he was in 4th place and needs every point he could get. I had bridged up to him with 4 other riders that included his team mate. It ended up that only 2 of us were working so we both sat up. One of the riders that didn't work in the break is the point’s leader so I understood why he sat on our wheel.

    As the race went on I attacked three more times and the only guys who went were the guys in the point chase and another guy 3 years older than me. Each of the times I attacked it was me, the older guy and the point’s leaders. I then figured that I wasn't going to get away from those two teams due to the points race. A few laps later the older guy and a rider from one of the points leader teams went up the road just before the A field passed us. Once the A’s were clear the two had about 100 meters on us and I decided to wait for the other team to pull us all up to the leaders. The B race only scores 3 places and I figured it was only a matter of time before they chase. With 5 of the 2.1 mile laps left to go there was still no chase. I decided to make a go of it and went OTF and a few guys chased and we began to take rotations until once again only 2 of us were working. WTF?, the top two places are up the road and the points leader is actively blocking. Once again we sat up and we all went back to the field. With 2 laps to go they announced another prime and the original rider in 4th place went out on his own and took the prime while the pack watched him go. So now on the final lap; all 3 places are up the road and the point’s leader team is riding tempo on the front with no one on their team up ahead. I decided to make the best of the race and get in a good workout by going long in the field sprint for nothing else but ego points. With about a 1/3 lap to go I went out outside and nailed it OTS to get away. I could see in the shadows that a few guys were close to me once I sat and started to it hammer home. I was able to keep a sustained pace of 525-600 watts for what seemed like forever. When I got to the 200 marker I convinced myself that I did what I wanted to do and didn’t need to finish OTS. That was a poor decision as two riders rolled passed me with 50 meters to go. One of the guys was the point’s leader. As we were coasting down he made a smart assed-comment to me about helping him win the championship. I said “you’re welcome, but you took 4th”. Oh well, 6 guys on the team and none can count to 3? The guy who took both primes and 3rd place is now tied for the overall.

    At least I got a 1:28 sprint in @ 592 ave watts, just wish I would have HTFU’d and went OTS for the last 150 meters.
    Good racing... There is FTP and then there is forever power.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  6. #156
    Old Road Racer Cleave's Avatar
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    AJ, we seem to have similar racing attitudes. Unfortunately, I don't have similar power numbers. My next-to-last Tuesday Night Worlds (I'll miss the last race of the season while I'm at Nationals) went reasonably well last night. It would have gone really well if I could have stayed with my two breakaway companions until the finish.

    Looking back at my data I attacked 5 times in a 1 hour race that averaged just over 25 MPH. My last attack was with 2-1/2 laps to go (1.7 mile laps). One guy from the other Long Beach club came with me. Another guy bridged up. After staying away about 3/4 of a lap, 3 more bridged up and it looked like the pack might catch us. I stayed on the rivet and 2 of the 3 guys who bridged late stayed with me. The others fell back into the pack. I didn't dare look back until we got the bell. Amazingly, I couldn't see the pack on the finishing straight. By then I was feeling pretty cooked. I told the guy who looked the strongest that I wouldn't sprint if we made it.

    With about 1/2 lap to go there is a small rise on the course which felt like a mountain at this point. I was 2nd wheel and the strong guy was 3rd wheel. He decided to attack over the rise and that was it for me. The other guy got his wheel and I tried to keep some pace going but 1/4 of a lap later the field caught me. It turned out my breakaway companions got caught in the last 200 meters.

    My legs are killing me today.
    Thanks.
    Cleave
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  7. #157
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleave View Post
    My legs are killing me today.
    That's a good thing for Nats.

  8. #158
    Senior Member VanceMac's Avatar
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    Race #5 (of 6) in the Encino Summer Series. Bs were full and As only had 16, so I offered to move to the As. I'd rather get dropped than be called a sandbagger.

    First race was a Unknown Distance. Now, in my limited experience, all UD races have been beteween 10 and 25 laps. And given the length of the races in the other categories, I figured this to be around 20. Well... after the SECOND lap the bell goes off! I was a bit peeved, since I do these races for a workout as much as anything else. But part of the game.

    Second race was 40 lap Points race. The pace was pretty hot from the *** and throughout, rather than the tempo-sprint-tempo-sprint that often happens. I was happy to hang on until the end, and got close to pts a couple times, but no dice.

    Third race was a Miss-n-Out. A strong field stacked with sprinters meant I was a sitting duck for an elimination race, so I decided to flame out rather than risk having another 2 or 3 lap race. On the first lap I went off the front and had about 1/4 lap gap. Every time I came around to the start/finish I figured it was my last lap, but the gap was holding as the pack played the tempo-sprint game. I finally heard top sprinter #1 say to top sprinter #2 "Okay James, it's me and you." And I was shocked that it was down to three. I was very pleased with third.

  9. #159
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Vance, I liked your Elimination race strategy. 3rd in the As is totally awesome.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  10. #160
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Love that racin' VanceMac.

  11. #161
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Throw those dice

  12. #162
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    One of the racers from Tuesday Worlds B Race posted this YouTube video of the race. I was in the group of 4 OTF that got neutralized by the crash. The video of the sprint shows me that I needed to attack longer at first if I hope to drop everyone. It didn't help me when another racer announced "go Bill" as I was attacking up the outside. The roads are open to traffic and we have the yellow line rule in effect at all times.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QyOa3JEx_s&sns=em
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  13. #163
    Senior Member VanceMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allegheny Jet View Post
    One of the racers from Tuesday Worlds B Race posted this YouTube video of the race. I was in the group of 4 OTF that got neutralized by the crash. The video of the sprint shows me that I needed to attack longer at first if I hope to drop everyone. It didn't help me when another racer announced "go Bill" as I was attacking up the outside. The roads are open to traffic and we have the yellow line rule in effect at all times.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QyOa3JEx_s&sns=em
    Nice jump, you had a good gap. Your cheerleader definitely didn't help your stealth. That crash was wild... couldn't really tell what happened, even in slo-mo, but it looked like the guy rocketed from the gutter all the way to the opposite lane?

    The course seems a bit dodgy (gutters, rough pavement, traffic), or is it just a case of things always looking worse on video?

  14. #164
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Growing up in North Olmsted, I got nostalgic for a moment watching a crit in Westlake. Westlake was in our conference and I competed against them in football, track and field and tennis.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  15. #165
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMac View Post
    Nice jump, you had a good gap. Your cheerleader definitely didn't help your stealth. That crash was wild... couldn't really tell what happened, even in slo-mo, but it looked like the guy rocketed from the gutter all the way to the opposite lane?

    The course seems a bit dodgy (gutters, rough pavement, traffic), or is it just a case of things always looking worse on video?
    The 2.1 mile course is 50% concrete that is being replaced beginning Sept. The surface is rough and cracked in spots and may even have contributed to the crash. Usually traffic is of no significance in the industrial park consisting mostly of office buildings.

    Notice that I was riding in the crap for a reason. I could see the bad spots coming up and all they could do is follow blindly.
    Last edited by Allegheny Jet; 08-23-12 at 11:39 AM.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  16. #166
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMac View Post
    Third race was a Miss-n-Out. A strong field stacked with sprinters meant I was a sitting duck for an elimination race, so I decided to flame out rather than risk having another 2 or 3 lap race. On the first lap I went off the front and had about 1/4 lap gap. Every time I came around to the start/finish I figured it was my last lap, but the gap was holding as the pack played the tempo-sprint game. I finally heard top sprinter #1 say to top sprinter #2 "Okay James, it's me and you." And I was shocked that it was down to three. I was very pleased with third.
    Sweet!
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  17. #167
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Nice finish VinceMac! I can't wait do that type of race.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  18. #168
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    They neutralized your break because of a crash that far behind you? WTF? Must be because it was TNW? Either that, or racing must be truly genteel in your part of the country, and I somehow don't think that's the case.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  19. #169
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Posted this in a couple of other spots but my teammate won the TT at Worlds today by 2 seconds. Last year he crashed and finished 6th. Really happy for him. I helped him out here and there with some TT advice and he was really focused this year for this event.

  20. #170
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    Posted this in a couple of other spots but my teammate won the TT at Worlds today by 2 seconds. Last year he crashed and finished 6th. Really happy for him. I helped him out here and there with some TT advice and he was really focused this year for this event.
    Nice, Ex.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  21. #171
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    They neutralized your break because of a crash that far behind you? WTF? Must be because it was TNW? Either that, or racing must be truly genteel in your part of the country, and I somehow don't think that's the case.
    We were close enough to hear it and two of the guys wanted to slow down. It's training for me so I concurred. The rider older than me wanted to hammer.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  22. #172
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    A few weeks ago, on Tuesday night, a guy next to me went down (high side) from a mechanical issue locking up his drivetrain. Someone yelled to slow down, so I did, as the pack rode away.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  23. #173
    Old Road Racer Cleave's Avatar
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    Racer Ex, you are on too many teams with too many teammates. Great job on the win by Cale. BTW, why are there so many competitors from South Africa?
    Thanks.
    Cleave
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  24. #174
    Old Road Racer Cleave's Avatar
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    VanceMac, you may as well sell the mountain bike. You're totally hooked on track and road now.
    Thanks.
    Cleave
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  25. #175
    Old Road Racer Cleave's Avatar
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    AJ, that video was pretty interesting. Very cool to see you attack at the end. Interesting that the guy with the camera was never in the wind except for the field sprint. Maybe it was just the way he edited it.
    Thanks.
    Cleave
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