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  1. #1826
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarals View Post
    So do I. I saw Gary's post on FB - congrats to you, both of you, in spite you of feeling lousy!

    Why do you suppose your HR was so high?
    You're sweet.

    Of course the takeaway is we need to do a better job of setting up our rider who lapped the field. I was stuck trying to serve two mistresses. Grab points from my series rival (so we can eventually not worry about late flats, weather, crashes) and try and help the team grab the win. Unfortunately my rival (ok, in his head) chopped our teammate off my wheel going into the sprint. I chased down the late attack by two of his breakaway companions, but soft pedaled a few strokes before the sprint proper started. A bit more organization and we could have driven right through those guys and he'd have gotten the win. But my last minute was 550, with a 20 second sprint.

    Here's a good story. Our teammate lapped the field. The very first thing he did was ride up to me

    C: Four of us lapped the field. You need to get fifth place points. Who do I need to cover?
    gsteinb: (smacks him in the back of the helmet)
    C: what?
    gsteinb: focus. you've got a race to win.

    So, TSS and IF and 1 minute power aside. We simply didn't get it done.
    Last edited by gsteinb; 03-31-14 at 07:01 AM.

  2. #1827
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    What was the number of that bus?

  3. #1828
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    Louisville Crit SW4, 12/34.

    Had a great race until the last half lap, stayed in position in the lead pack top 2-7ish for the entire race, we lapped the rest of the field (ok, stragglers) 2-3 times. Last lap the finish is about a 1/3 mile uphill, I was just destroyed on the last lap and made a mental error, started my sprint really early and faded, rolled in last of the lead pack.
    ...

  4. #1829
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valygrl View Post
    Louisville Crit SW4, 12/34.

    Had a great race until the last half lap, stayed in position in the lead pack top 2-7ish for the entire race, we lapped the rest of the field (ok, stragglers) 2-3 times. Last lap the finish is about a 1/3 mile uphill, I was just destroyed on the last lap and made a mental error, started my sprint really early and faded, rolled in last of the lead pack.
    Nice job!

  5. #1830
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    Nice job!
    +1. Way to hang.

    Bethel Circuit Francis J Clarke M45+, mid 50's, windy, sunny and clear, 5th place. When I feel like quitting this sport, and that is too often, it's days like today that make it all worthwhile. We finally had a nice day for racing in what has been a horrible weather year for this series. My job was to mark the biggest threat for gsteinb and wrap this thing up. My mark went before I was clipped in but Gary got on him. They stayed out for 3 laps while I watched the #2 guy in the series until we caught them. My guy attacked over and over again but I was always on his wheel. He got so pissed off he pulled a very dumb stunt, he brake checked me and almost took the whole field down. I had to cross the yellow to avoid a wreck. Then he threw a tantrum and rode off the back of the field cussing a blue streak at me. I told him I was just doing my job. He suggested I wasn't racing like a gentleman (I immediately thought of Kate and her tea party comment), and I replied that I would have no problem working with him to get back to the field. So we did. And he kept attacking and I kept marking. On the last lap he moved up with me on him, and I was in a great position for the sprint. It took all of my mental energy to stay patient and wait for the right moment to jump. The best I have ever done here is 4th, so this was a great finish. Gary won and I was in the money.

    After eating my PB&J on the tailgate of my truck I rolled around for a bit before the P/1/2/3 race, which was delayed because the 3/4 race results took a while. A break of two went early, then came the chase, and things settled down for a bit. I decided to mark an M40+ Master as I felt I could stay with him if he jumped. Once the break was in sight, he started attacking on the hill. I could stay with him but man it hurt. He attacked 3 times in a row and that took a toll. On the fourth time, he got away clean and made the bridge. I just couldn't do it. That took a lot out of me so I resigned myself to hang in and finish. With 12 to go I started sag climbing the hill to conserve. At the finish I was right where I wanted to be but when I jumped the legs would not go. However, the results just came in and I finished 18th. Another top 20 as the oldest guy in the field.

    What a great day.
    Last edited by shovelhd; 04-06-14 at 07:37 PM.

  6. #1831
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    Great job, shovel and Gary!
    Regards,
    Chuck

    Demain, on roule!

  7. #1832
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Sweet stuff, Shovel. Gary is lucky to have you.

    And way to goo Valygrl - great job!
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  8. #1833
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    happy to have is probably a better phrasing than lucky. Our team turned 20 this year. and from the days when it was also an elite team with guys like jeff pierce, it's always fielded formidable squads. while we're just a masters team now, I like to think we are one of the better masters teams in the northeast. the primary reason is the core is a good group of guys who are friends first. yesterday was a full on team effort, with everyone assigned and then executing their roles. and even down a couple of guys, with folks having other obligations, when we execute our best plan we'll have a pretty good shot at winning. shovel fits in great. pizza at pepe's, and anniversary jerseys I think next week apres race
    Last edited by gsteinb; 04-07-14 at 06:25 AM.

  9. #1834
    Old Road Racer Cleave's Avatar
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    shovelhd and gsteinb, sounds like a lot of fun. Fun often leads to good results (combined with some dedicated training and years of race experience).

    valygrl, being there at the end is always satisfying and sometimes frustrating at the same time. Great job!
    Thanks.
    Cleave
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  10. #1835
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    I don't particularly like negative racing, nor would I call it fun. I also think depending on it is risky. It makes your squad too predictable. I have found I my career that it is more effective to have part of the team attacking, not following, racing positive, while others protect. What we do is achieving results.

  11. #1836
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Congrats to ShovelHD and gsteinb. First, the racing is always superb and team tactics excellent. However, what is also very impressive is the teamwork. It is amazingly hard to put together a great team and keep it going achieving superior results.

    ShovelHD, I have mentioned this many times before, but what I really like about your racing is that you race with the P/1/2s. I am not taking anything away from masters per se, but the elite P/1/2s are the best such that any result in that field is amazing.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  12. #1837
    So it is LAJ's Avatar
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    Very nice shovelhd and gsteinb.

    Great job, valygrl. The gal that won is strong, and I'm sure you know her story.

    45+4 Louisville was my first real crit back, as I don't count that crap-show Stazio. My goal was to get my head right, and I think it worked OK. I became more comfortable, and was able to work up towards the front, then it would get a little weird, and I would get shuffled back. Either way, this one usually has some kind of wreck, and I was out to show myself it wouldn't be me. People still race like idiots. They don't count DNF's, I don't believe, so over 60 started, 56 finished, and I got a whopping 30th.

    35+4 27th. Way faster. Same amount of time, an extra lap. No bunching up climbing the little hill valygrl talked about, like the earlier race. No recovery, other than the downhill bit. I finished with the pack, and actually rode to the front in this. Gassed at the end.

    Air Force Academy RR. 40 miles, 3500 feet of climbing. I had no business being there, but I went anyway. Collegiate race, so a bunch of kids. Either way. 37th out of 75. It snowed on me the last half of the lap. Nothing went right. My battery went dead on the Quarq, no warning. I farted with that, and then forgot a tire lever, as hauling a tube is a good idea. Leg warmers wouldn't stay right, just stupid stuff. I'm glad I went.

    I'm glad to be racing again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post

    And let the age thing go. We are all old with problems of some kind. Focusing on that is counterproductive.

  13. #1838
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    Nice, LAJ! I don't know anything about the winner in my field, maybe you could fill me in in a PM?

    Thanks for the nice words, everyone. It was fun to be in the mix, and I learned another way to lose a race, and will try not to repeat it. I talked to my coach, and her takeaway was: don't abandon your race plan. Good advice. I'll try to heed it next time.
    ...

  14. #1839
    Old Road Racer Cleave's Avatar
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    LAJ, that definitely jumping back into the deep end of the pool. Good job!

    shovelhd, maybe it's just me, but I think there is a difference between negative racing to support a teammate and negative racing because that's all you know how to do because you THINK you can win a field sprint. Can't tell you how many times I've seen riders chase down breaks when they have a teammate in the break. If someone is marking another rider or chasing breaks for a teammate who has a very good chance of winning a race or series, I'm OK with that. At that point, it's my job to disrupt that process by attacking repeatedly or letting others roll off the front or...
    Thanks.
    Cleave
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  15. #1840
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    Congrats to ShovelHD and gsteinb. First, the racing is always superb and team tactics excellent. However, what is also very impressive is the teamwork. It is amazingly hard to put together a great team and keep it going achieving superior results.

    ShovelHD, I have mentioned this many times before, but what I really like about your racing is that you race with the P/1/2s. I am not taking anything away from masters per se, but the elite P/1/2s are the best such that any result in that field is amazing.
    Thank you very much. To be fair, the Bethel races are P/1/2/3, not pure elite P/1/2, but a lot, and I mean a lot, of the Cat3's get blown off the back. Looking at road-results you'll see that most of the field is Cat1/2 with some pros that show up every once in a while. Also, those guys only get to do one race while it is my second race of the day.

  16. #1841
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAJ View Post

    45+4 Louisville was my first real crit back, as I don't count that crap-show Stazio. My goal was to get my head right, and I think it worked OK. I became more comfortable, and was able to work up towards the front, then it would get a little weird, and I would get shuffled back. Either way, this one usually has some kind of wreck, and I was out to show myself it wouldn't be me. People still race like idiots. They don't count DNF's, I don't believe, so over 60 started, 56 finished, and I got a whopping 30th.

    35+4 27th. Way faster. Same amount of time, an extra lap. No bunching up climbing the little hill valygrl talked about, like the earlier race. No recovery, other than the downhill bit. I finished with the pack, and actually rode to the front in this. Gassed at the end.

    Air Force Academy RR. 40 miles, 3500 feet of climbing. I had no business being there, but I went anyway. Collegiate race, so a bunch of kids. Either way. 37th out of 75. It snowed on me the last half of the lap. Nothing went right. My battery went dead on the Quarq, no warning. I farted with that, and then forgot a tire lever, as hauling a tube is a good idea. Leg warmers wouldn't stay right, just stupid stuff. I'm glad I went.

    I'm glad to be racing again.
    We're glad to have you back. Three races after returning and you finish them all in the field? You have potential, my man.

  17. #1842
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleave View Post
    shovelhd, maybe it's just me, but I think there is a difference between negative racing to support a teammate and negative racing because that's all you know how to do because you THINK you can win a field sprint. Can't tell you how many times I've seen riders chase down breaks when they have a teammate in the break. If someone is marking another rider or chasing breaks for a teammate who has a very good chance of winning a race or series, I'm OK with that. At that point, it's my job to disrupt that process by attacking repeatedly or letting others roll off the front or...
    I get your point. It's just the team offense that's missing. We have the defense down. I will say this about negative racing, in particular marking one guy for the whole race, it is physically and mentally draining as it is a rather complex task. I think there are a lot of very good racers that would not be able to do it. Think about what needs to happen. You have to stay on the wheel of one of the most powerful guys in the field. Everybody wants that wheel, so you have to fight for it for the whole race. If you lose it for a moment, you have to take some wind and work your way back on it. If he slides through the field, you have to stand your ground and make room. If he works with a teammate or friend in the field and tries to box you in, you have to see it coming and counter. And of course, every time he attacks and tries to get away, you have to go, no matter how many times in a row he does. So it's understandable, at least to me, how someone could lose focus or not be 100% able to react for every second of the race, and lose their prey with disastrous results. It is not easy.

  18. #1843
    So it is LAJ's Avatar
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    Thank you valygrl, Cleave, and shovelhd!

    I'm in a much better mood now. I was worried, as I have seen folks get very nervous in the pack. Any twitch by a bike near them, and they reacted. I didn't want to be that guy. Bumping drills, and practicing with the new team helped.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post

    And let the age thing go. We are all old with problems of some kind. Focusing on that is counterproductive.

  19. #1844
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Way to go LAJ. Solid finishes and the rubber side down.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  20. #1845
    So it is LAJ's Avatar
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    Thank you AzTallRider. Though I wanted to do better, I wasn't sad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post

    And let the age thing go. We are all old with problems of some kind. Focusing on that is counterproductive.

  21. #1846
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Keep working hard and the results will come.

  22. #1847
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Valygrl, way to go, lady! Sounded like a strong ride. Fantastic!
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  23. #1848
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    LAJ, good on ya! Sounds like your head IS right. Strong results, smart riding.
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  24. #1849
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Shovel, you're amazing. Just freaking amazing. You and Gary make a helluva team, I'd say without even knowing how things stack up in your area that your team HAS to be the ONE where you are. You guys rock!
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  25. #1850
    So it is LAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    Keep working hard and the results will come.
    Thanks again, shovelhd. There is a certain method to riding smarter, and not just packing the miles in. It just took a while to pound that fact into my head.

    Quote Originally Posted by sarals View Post
    LAJ, good on ya! Sounds like your head IS right. Strong results, smart riding.
    Thank you very much, sarals. Watching you improve, is a good motivator.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post

    And let the age thing go. We are all old with problems of some kind. Focusing on that is counterproductive.

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