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  1. #1926
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    Sara - Good job on keeping to your goals! Your races sound like the M55+ ones where I am - small fields and a huge ability spread.
    Regards,
    Chuck

    Demain, on roule!

  2. #1927
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    There were five pre reg, and five day of. I've learned, indeed, that small fields mean a lot of work! Unless you have some of your team in the race, people just aren't inclined to work together. And, oh yeah, the spread in ability is pretty large, as is the age spread! Still, I enjoy crits. I wish there were more to do.
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  3. #1928
    So it is LAJ's Avatar
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    Nicely done, Sara! Wind, and mind games, in a small field. What's not to love! As always, so much to learn.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post

    And let the age thing go. We are all old with problems of some kind. Focusing on that is counterproductive.

  4. #1929
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    Nice work LAJ. I messed up my wheel-holding and ended up at the back at the little downhill before the left on the last lap, and it took me until the blue house at the bottom of the finishing hill to make it to the front. I can't imagine what it was like with 75 racers instead of 40. So hard to move up!

    Quote Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
    Same race as valygrl. 30th/80, or 75 or something. It sold out. The race was scheduled for an 8:49 start, so I figured to get in the staging 5-10 minutes before. 8:30, it already seemed to have half the field there. I lined up at the very back, and the first pass through the dirt was neutral. Slinky onto the pavement, and then settled in. Took a lap and a half to get to the front. We thought pushing the pace may help out our strong guys, so we had guys up there most of the time. Myself and a teammate pulled them around for 1/4-1/3 of the second lap. That last little hill took it out of me on the 3rd/last lap. The team didn't fare as well, and I was at the back of the lead pack. Lots of us in the top 30, but no real results to speak of. We'll work on that.

    rapwithtom raced smart as heck. I never saw his nose in the wind, yet he was near the front the whole race.

    The Federal Center is next week, and I look forward to that. 4 miles, 18 corners, and I may dip my toe into the 55+ race. I hope to learn, and also feel I have enough wits about me to get out if I feel I may be a hazard.
    ...

  5. #1930
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    Good heavens, Racer Ex. Well done, and I hope you're not feeling the effects of the weekend too much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post

    And let the age thing go. We are all old with problems of some kind. Focusing on that is counterproductive.

  6. #1931
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    Thanks valygrl. That sounds familiar! I took a drink, and relaxed for half a heartbeat, and they decided that would be a good time to up the pace. That couple of seconds reaction time/stowing the bottle allowed me to have that pesky motorcycle in my ear. I knew I would catch them at the left, as those guys slowed way down for it, but I still had to maintain speed to match the acceleration. The pack was smaller, by more than half, but still. My mistake. I just used too much energy messing around. Great job working back up there, and having some suds left to be well into the top ten.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post

    And let the age thing go. We are all old with problems of some kind. Focusing on that is counterproductive.

  7. #1932
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
    Thanks valygrl. That sounds familiar! I took a drink, and relaxed for half a heartbeat, and they decided that would be a good time to up the pace. That couple of seconds reaction time/stowing the bottle allowed me to have that pesky motorcycle in my ear. I knew I would catch them at the left, as those guys slowed way down for it, but I still had to maintain speed to match the acceleration. The pack was smaller, by more than half, but still. My mistake. I just used too much energy messing around. Great job working back up there, and having some suds left to be well into the top ten.

    She is a smart and strong one, that lady is!
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  8. #1933
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
    Good heavens, Racer Ex. Well done, and I hope you're not feeling the effects of the weekend too much.
    I still have the stage racer gene thing, couple of crits just make me need a short nap. Lungs and head seem to be better. Other stuff is the same.

    Mostly frustrated at getting punched out of a break. Been a long time since that happened. Intellectually I know that the quality of the break was super high and I dumped a lot of matches getting there, but it's like the fighter who's never been knocked out waking up looking at the ref above him.

  9. #1934
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    I know that sinking feeling. You did well.

  10. #1935
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    Obviously we're in the thick of the racing season and some of us are in the thick of the competition.

    valygrl, shovelhd, gsteinb, LAJ, sarals, and Racer Ex, good reads on what's happening with all of you. Most importantly, good to read that everyone stayed upright this past weekend.

    gsteinb, I think I need a do-over on this season. More on that later and elsewhere.
    Thanks.
    Cleave
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  11. #1936
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    Good races by all, well done

  12. #1937
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    Weld County RR 45/4's - with LAJ

    I was dreading this race - 86 riders with narrow, flat roads, I feared, made for gruppo compacto for 90 minutes. Being a 4, and riding closely with other 4's, puts me on alert.

    The race turned out completely differently than my expectations. First, I felt good in the group. I moved around well, especially for me (thanks LAJ), and spent most of the race in the top 20 or so. Secondly, the group communicated much better than I've ever experienced: lots of verbalizations and hip touching made things pretty safe. Perhaps that's a difference between being at the front and the back?

    We did 3 laps. The course featured a couple of mile 1-2% hill that topped out about a mile before the finish, then was flat for 1/2 mile, then 1% downhill for the last 1/2 mile before the finish.

    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that if I can get my 200 lbs to the top of the hill with the group, then the downhill finish gets me about as excited as 'waki at a buffet. I made it through with the group the first two times, but was one of the last to not make it to the top with the group on the last lap. I finished best of the rest, which was in the 20's.

    Takeaways:
    - I'm no longer the worst ever at riding in a group. It's not a strong suit, but it's not a catastrophe either.
    - I still don't have the fitness to be a player when there are hills involved, but I'm not too far off.
    - Though I'm a crit guy, I've had a lot of fun doing RR's, even though they are not what I have been training for.
    - Even in this RR, the sprinting out of corners added fatigue...I showed some big power numbers at many of the corners even though I was far from the finish. I have a lot more to learn here in terms of conserving energy and/or hurting others.
    - I was suckered into chasing an attack with half a lap to go. Shame on me, that's not how I was going to be successful in this race.

    I think the 45/4 racing is getting better, both fitness-wise and tactically, but even more importantly, it's getting a lot more collegial. Racers, even people not competing teams, are actually chatting after the race. That, for me at least, is making it a lot more fun.

  13. #1938
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Tom, good job! That was a great report. Nothing like progress to boost both the confidence and fun level, is there?
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  14. #1939
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Nice job rapwithtom. If you enjoy the social part of it, you'll like racing in Open Masters when you are ready. Nice chit chat before and after. Lots of throat slitting in the middle though.

  15. #1940
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapwithtom View Post
    Weld County RR 45/4's - with LAJ

    I was dreading this race - 86 riders with narrow, flat roads, I feared, made for gruppo compacto for 90 minutes. Being a 4, and riding closely with other 4's, puts me on alert.

    The race turned out completely differently than my expectations. First, I felt good in the group. I moved around well, especially for me (thanks LAJ), and spent most of the race in the top 20 or so. Secondly, the group communicated much better than I've ever experienced: lots of verbalizations and hip touching made things pretty safe. Perhaps that's a difference between being at the front and the back?

    We did 3 laps. The course featured a couple of mile 1-2% hill that topped out about a mile before the finish, then was flat for 1/2 mile, then 1% downhill for the last 1/2 mile before the finish.

    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that if I can get my 200 lbs to the top of the hill with the group, then the downhill finish gets me about as excited as 'waki at a buffet. I made it through with the group the first two times, but was one of the last to not make it to the top with the group on the last lap. I finished best of the rest, which was in the 20's.

    Takeaways:
    - I'm no longer the worst ever at riding in a group. It's not a strong suit, but it's not a catastrophe either.
    - I still don't have the fitness to be a player when there are hills involved, but I'm not too far off.
    - Though I'm a crit guy, I've had a lot of fun doing RR's, even though they are not what I have been training for.
    - Even in this RR, the sprinting out of corners added fatigue...I showed some big power numbers at many of the corners even though I was far from the finish. I have a lot more to learn here in terms of conserving energy and/or hurting others.
    - I was suckered into chasing an attack with half a lap to go. Shame on me, that's not how I was going to be successful in this race.

    I think the 45/4 racing is getting better, both fitness-wise and tactically, but even more importantly, it's getting a lot more collegial. Racers, even people not competing teams, are actually chatting after the race. That, for me at least, is making it a lot more fun.
    Well done.
    As for the social aspect before and after - that's what should happen. My take on this racing bit is that I'm not going to get a paycheck doing it so it better be fun before and after; the racing part should be tough.

  16. #1941
    So it is LAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapwithtom View Post
    Weld County RR 45/4's - with LAJ

    I was dreading this race - 86 riders with narrow, flat roads, I feared, made for gruppo compacto for 90 minutes. Being a 4, and riding closely with other 4's, puts me on alert.

    The race turned out completely differently than my expectations. First, I felt good in the group. I moved around well, especially for me (thanks LAJ), and spent most of the race in the top 20 or so. Secondly, the group communicated much better than I've ever experienced: lots of verbalizations and hip touching made things pretty safe. Perhaps that's a difference between being at the front and the back?

    We did 3 laps. The course featured a couple of mile 1-2% hill that topped out about a mile before the finish, then was flat for 1/2 mile, then 1% downhill for the last 1/2 mile before the finish.

    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that if I can get my 200 lbs to the top of the hill with the group, then the downhill finish gets me about as excited as 'waki at a buffet. I made it through with the group the first two times, but was one of the last to not make it to the top with the group on the last lap. I finished best of the rest, which was in the 20's.

    Takeaways:
    - I'm no longer the worst ever at riding in a group. It's not a strong suit, but it's not a catastrophe either.
    - I still don't have the fitness to be a player when there are hills involved, but I'm not too far off.
    - Though I'm a crit guy, I've had a lot of fun doing RR's, even though they are not what I have been training for.
    - Even in this RR, the sprinting out of corners added fatigue...I showed some big power numbers at many of the corners even though I was far from the finish. I have a lot more to learn here in terms of conserving energy and/or hurting others.
    - I was suckered into chasing an attack with half a lap to go. Shame on me, that's not how I was going to be successful in this race.

    I think the 45/4 racing is getting better, both fitness-wise and tactically, but even more importantly, it's getting a lot more collegial. Racers, even people not competing teams, are actually chatting after the race. That, for me at least, is making it a lot more fun.
    Was that where I was almost spit out the back? Just before the little downhill before the left, I assume.

    Very nice report, and well done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post

    And let the age thing go. We are all old with problems of some kind. Focusing on that is counterproductive.

  17. #1942
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAJ View Post
    Was that where I was almost spit out the back? Just before the little downhill before the left, I assume.
    Maybe a mile before the left...we were all 2-up, I was in the 2nd row, and the 2 in front and the guy beside me were chatting..."you ready?" etc etc. Nothing subtle or coy. Then they went...with full anticipation and visibility by everybody. I went too, thinking it might be strong enough to get away. But it was a dumb attack because a) there was no surprise; b) the stronger riders were all sitting 5th wheel or so anyway, immediately behind.

    The only real effect was that those who were working hard on the hill (eg me) got a little closer to the rivet, whilst the stronger climbers merely had to temporarily suspend their chit chat. If the attack was merely to fatigue me, then clever by them and shame on me...but this is only cat 4, and I'm a nobody, so that's not what it was about. But it did get hard for a while.

  18. #1943
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    One of the things Ex and I have talked about is those situations when someone does something which makes you think "what the %(#$ is in his mind? Am I missing something?" Chances are, if you are thinking about things enough to have that sort of thought, it means the other guy(s) are just not making sense. Not making sense happens a lot in races - like 3 guys launching from the front of the pack. That's typically a real long shot, absent a course feature that dictates it. Which is possible, if they were just trying to use the hill to 'decant' the peloton a bit. Do you know how those three ended up?

    In any event, you two had a great race!
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  19. #1944
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    I still have the stage racer gene thing, couple of crits just make me need a short nap. Lungs and head seem to be better. Other stuff is the same.

    Mostly frustrated at getting punched out of a break. Been a long time since that happened. Intellectually I know that the quality of the break was super high and I dumped a lot of matches getting there, but it's like the fighter who's never been knocked out waking up looking at the ref above him.
    The other guys in the break probably rushed to their cars to 'text home to momma' about how they dropped you. Then, next time...
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  20. #1945
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleave View Post
    Obviously we're in the thick of the racing season and some of us are in the thick of the competition.

    valygrl, shovelhd, gsteinb, LAJ, sarals, and Racer Ex, good reads on what's happening with all of you. Most importantly, good to read that everyone stayed upright this past weekend.

    gsteinb, I think I need a do-over on this season. More on that later and elsewhere.
    Cleave. How about we rewind the PSG, and go for another lapping of the field? You can do the initial attack this time, and we can bridge to you.

    eventually.

    Got to say that is one great feeling.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  21. #1946
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    Cleave. How about we rewind the PSG, and go for another lapping of the field? You can do the initial attack this time, and we can bridge to you.

    eventually.

    Got to say that is one great feeling.
    I expect that, and I cannot wait to see it.
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  22. #1947
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    AzT, you reminded me of some things I've thought about around my last race. I'm sitting here watching "Deadliest Catch", and the term "greenhorn" stings every time I hear it. Even though I am not going all in in the races I'm doing right now,because they are training races, I can't help but think over the mistakes I've made and the opportunities that I have missed. My team mate made the comment "she wanted it more than you did" when I told her about how I'd been tricked into doing 90% of the work by the rider I was working with, and then watched her ride away and finish ahead of me because I was pooped. That remark irritated me at first, and then I remembered the mind game aspect of this sport. The part I don't know much about. The part that could keep me in the race at the end or out of it early. Two other things that happened in that race have been a focus to me, as well. One was watching a rider move strongly up the leeward side of the pack to position herself second wheel, and I had every opportunity to follow her. And it would have been helpful to me if I had. The other was watching the other 60+ woman in the field move smartly up the same side moments earlier, and thinking that I should have been marking her. In both cases, I thought about what was going on when it was happening rather than reacting to it. Why? Because, I'm new to this. I thought and then had second thoughts, rather than being decisive. But - I'm remembering these opportunities, and it's probably good that I recognize them. I look forward to when I know enough about this sport so that I can react the right way and be there at the end of the race.
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  23. #1948
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    That's where it was, rwt. Heck, I even asked the motorcycle rider what kind of nonsense was going on here.

    Thank you all. It was an enjoyable weekend.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post

    And let the age thing go. We are all old with problems of some kind. Focusing on that is counterproductive.

  24. #1949
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    Great race reports. Please keep them coming!

    Saw the surgeon today, new x-ray from another angle showed a big gap between the bones so getting it plated next Wednesday... Fortunately I've had very little pain!
    http://climbinglama.blogspot.com.au

  25. #1950
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Sara,

    First off, anyone that watches Deadliest Catch is A-OK in my book. Whenever that MH-60 shows up I think of you and what you do.

    Im in not your coach but it seems to me like you're going through a growth spurt with your racing knowledge. It can be taught, but it must be learned, if that makes any sense. I question myself after ever single race, even when I win. Maybe it's because I'm an engineer, or maybe just because that's how I'm wired. The questioning is easy. The analysis and lessons learned are the hard part. You are making tremendous progress in that area as evidenced in your last post.

    What to do when you are working in a small group and one is not. I usually start with reality and encouragement first. "We're not going to stay out here long if you don't get working. Come in now let's go". If it's a team support thing I say nothing because it's futile. If they are clearly wheel sucking then I deal with it for a bit and then I'll say something like "You don't want me to make this hard for you." That usually puts them into attack mode so you have to be diligent. That's true for all wheel suckers. They will attack you at any moment so save a reserve and keep an eye on their wheel.

    I had one in the 55 race last weekend when we were in the chase group with the solo rider up ahead. One teammate was doing nothing, as he should. Some doofus Cat4 was yelling at everyone to work including the teammate but I ignored him. Actually I didn't, I asked him if he was in the wrong race as the Cat5's were earlier. But there was one guy who I have races with enough to know his tricks, a strong Cat3 who will wheel suck and sprint but he is capable of bridging solo so not exactly a sprinter. I just gave him encouragement. "Come on Hartford lets get this guy". And he started working with me. We didn't catch the guy but we did what we could and he finished right behind me.

    Things will ill start to get easier once you get a feel for pacing your efforts in the criterium arena where surges can crush you. It takes confidence in your ability to recover and patience to measure your efforts during surges to give yourself the chance. This can again be taught but it must be learned.

    Keep up the great work and good luck in the PSG.

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