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  1. #226
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleave View Post
    That's what I meant. Not the fact that you moved it down that much. Need to check my posts for clarity.
    Gotcha - and yep, he raised it 3cm from where the Madone was, but that was because he wouldn't cheat the max saddle height of the Madone, and the saddle we went to didn't have as much height above the rails. I had been cheating the max height for about a year. In any event, I think I'll settle in at maybe 89.2 or 89.3, but am going to go at 89 for awhile until my legs settle back in.

    For the drop increase, I'm taking the "adapt or die" approach, which usually works for me better than going slow and gradual. I'm setting it where I think I'll be, and will back off only if it doesn't work out after awhile. Those of us at the extremes of fitting parameters, as I know you are as well Cleave, can't always take the standard approach. And when it comes to drop, you are moving that around all the time as you ride, and the lowest position is no different than just really tucking in and bending the arms, with the bars higher. It will affect arm position, but my lowest position will remain the same. Plus, I trimmed the front brake cable 1 cm too much to set the stem any higher. How's that for commitment?

    I also need narrower bars, but Giant isn't even selling these bars yet, other than on a new bike. If I want to go from 44 to 42 with these, I'll have to buy a smaller bike just to get the bars. So, I'm looking at other options - I want to maintain the aero approach, and probably stick with carbon to deaden vibration, since the bike is "less than forgiving". When I swap bars, I'll raise the stem if it isn't working, or cut the steerer if it is. Bike came with a glue in insert to replace the mechanical expander, once the steerer is cut. It stiffens things up, and I'm sure saves a few grams... This is definitely the most "no-compromise" racing bike I've put together.

    The 9000 FD shifts like you wouldn't believe, and the trim is really nice. If you try a little trim style push, but have already trimmed, you shift the ring, because the touch moving to the big ring is so light. And when you go from big to small, it goes to the trimmed position, reducing the chance of a chain drop - then you can trim it all the way if you are near the top of the cassette. As some reviews have said, it's what 7900 should have been, and it will keep a lot of people from going electronic, because the FD is as good as the electronic FD, so long as you are okay with trimming yourself rather than having that done for you by your electronic major domo.

  2. #227
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    at 16lbs (I'm waiting on a stem) it's a tank. then again I'm skipping the KOM contest on the Kol d'Prospect Park.

    It was hard for me to justify getting the SL though, and I'm really over the ISP.
    You may be over them, but the folks in Taiwan are clearly not. Fewer parts and joints = higher margins.

  3. #228
    Packfodding 3 caloso's Avatar
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    Due to a crash on Saturday which knocked my Cervelo out of commission, I raced my '86 Gazelle Champion Mondial on Sunday.



    Not really an ideal crit bike, but it certainly wasn't the limiting factor. Many compliments followed by "Holy crap, are you going to actually race on it?!?"
    Cyclists of the world, unite! You have nothing to lube but your chains!

  4. #229
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    You may be over them, but the folks in Taiwan are clearly not. Fewer parts and joints = higher margins.
    and yet I managed to, without any difficulty, to get the same bike with a regular seat post. while lots of companies have ISP many more have regular seat posts, albeit proprietary ones. And most have versions of their high end bikes with regular posts. Part of the reason is that traveling with an ISP is a pain in the ass. Stan's/AXA is on giants and they're on the advanced due to ISP travel. When Mountain Khakis were on Ridley's they rode the non ISP version for the same reason. It's great if you have a big budget and getting your stuff from here to there is someone else's problem, but for most people it's not going to be worth the hassle.
    Last edited by gsteinb; 05-07-13 at 03:39 PM.

  5. #230
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caloso View Post
    Not really an ideal crit bike, but it certainly wasn't the limiting factor. Many compliments followed by "Holy crap, are you going to actually race on it?!?"
    I don't understand that train of thought. Is is as aggressive as today's bikes? No. Is is suitable? Hell yes, maybe with a bit of an adjustment in riding style. We've got a Cat1 Master out here that races a Waterford and kicks everyone's butt. The Champ, right up until the last race I saw him in, raced a Cannondale R3000 with barends.

  6. #231
    Packfodding 3 caloso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    I don't understand that train of thought. Is is as aggressive as today's bikes? No. Is is suitable? Hell yes, maybe with a bit of an adjustment in riding style. We've got a Cat1 Master out here that races a Waterford and kicks everyone's butt. The Champ, right up until the last race I saw him in, raced a Cannondale R3000 with barends.
    Exactly. It does require a bit more steering input than the Cervelo and the 32 spoke wheels require me to think hard about spending any time in the wind, but these are small considerations on the whole.
    Cyclists of the world, unite! You have nothing to lube but your chains!

  7. #232
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    at 16lbs (I'm waiting on a stem) it's a tank.
    It's OverDrive 2, right? What stem are you getting? Only one's I'm aware of are Giant and Ritchey.

  8. #233
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    I have the contact one on there, but have that boxy looking giant one on order. I wasn't aware I could get a Ritchey. I'd probably have done that.

  9. #234
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsteinb View Post
    I have the contact one on there, but have that boxy looking giant one on order. I wasn't aware I could get a Ritchey. I'd probably have done that.
    The LBS owner who has given me the deals replacing the stolen bike clued me in. It's this one: WCS 4-AXIS 44 - 1.25"

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by caloso View Post
    Not really an ideal crit bike, but it certainly wasn't the limiting factor. Many compliments followed by "Holy crap, are you going to actually race on it?!?"
    You certainly won on style points. And while you needed to avoid the wind with those wheels, you didn't have to avoid the bumps quite as much.
    Regards,
    Chuck

    Demain, on roule!

  11. #236
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by revchuck View Post
    You certainly won on style points. And while you needed to avoid the wind with those wheels, you didn't have to avoid the bumps quite as much.
    What Chuck said!
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  12. #237
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    AzT - wow! It DOES look proportioned better than the Madone. Beautiful! BTW, you are going to black out the Giant lettering, right?

    Congratulations!!! I'd say something about riding it like you, well you know, but I didn't want to touch that sore nerve....
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  13. #238
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Some shots of the revamped Shiv cockpit. Need to find some foam for new arm rest pads. The tire being out of line is an optical illusion...cell phone camera. Not much the wind is going to see here:









  14. #239
    Senior Member VanceMac's Avatar
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    Sooo clean.

  15. #240
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    MacGyver was inspired.

  16. #241
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    Why are the brake levers like that?
    ...

  17. #242
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    Less is more.

    Why is the drive side extension higher?

  18. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by valygrl View Post
    Why are the brake levers like that?
    Ha, I was going to ask the same question, but then figured it out......... I think.

    I'm guessing that they line up with the bullhorns as an overall drag reduction exercise.

    Close?

  19. #244
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nacler22 View Post
    Less is more.

    Why is the drive side extension higher?
    Again, a bit of a cell phone camera optic, the difference is less than a millemeter...but there's some manufacturing +/- and bolt alignment that creates the bit of asymmetry.

    Quote Originally Posted by nacler22 View Post
    Ha, I was going to ask the same question, but then figured it out......... I think.

    I'm guessing that they line up with the bullhorns as an overall drag reduction exercise.

    Close?
    Winner winner chicken dinner!

    Drag reduction comes in two forms; shape and volume. While the brake levers aren't as good a shape as the base bar, setting the levers up like this reduces the volume the wind "sees" considerably. The air separates around the lever and, depending on speed, either only partially hits the base bar or reattaches on the trailing edge.

    And, as a nice surprise, braking in this position is actually more secure and stable than in the "conventional" position. Took me zero time to adapt...actually gets me to the brake levers quicker as well.

    If I had more confidence in my soldering ability I could clean this up further. It's no Tetonrider custom stem set up but it's not bad.

    Based on the HDC test session the old set up got me around "magic" CdA. This no doubt drops that a smidgen.

  20. #245
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    AzTR, your Propel is wicked.

    I thought my 83.5cm saddle to bb was long, but sweet baby Zeus.

  21. #246
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    Ex, thanx for the info.

    Colonel Sanders will do.

  22. #247
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Ex, that is slick. Two questions. The brake caliper is still in the wind - is the drag it imposes negligible where it is (I'm thinking the shape of the headtube probably masks the caliper to some degree due to the wider cross section)? I'd think there would be some turbulence associated with it. Second, do you use your thumbs to actuate the brake levers?
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  23. #248
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarals View Post
    Ex, that is slick. Two questions. The brake caliper is still in the wind - is the drag it imposes negligible where it is (I'm thinking the shape of the headtube probably masks the caliper to some degree due to the wider cross section)? I'd think there would be some turbulence associated with it. Second, do you use your thumbs to actuate the brake levers?
    The original Shiv had a nose cone over the front caliper, which the brake was integrated into. It was raced for a season like that then somebody forgot to pay off the UCI and they said "we just noticed you have a nose cone". This was the solution. It's not a huge drag generator because the air flow mostly attaches to the head tube, but it is seen a bit.

    The thumb actuation is actually easier than a conventional set up, and a bit more secure as well.
    Last edited by Racer Ex; 05-09-13 at 08:50 AM.

  24. #249
    powered by Racer Ex gsteinb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    The LBS owner who has given me the deals replacing the stolen bike clued me in. It's this one: WCS 4-AXIS 44 - 1.25"
    this guy showed up today



  25. #250
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    gsteinb = cavendish

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