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Thread: No Limits

  1. #26
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    A lot of the women, including Sarah Hammer, wore the Giro in the Omnium Scratch Race. I really like the KasK and wanted one but the last time I looked it was not available. Also, in the US, we need the CSPC sticker in the helmet. Initially, the Catlike and Casco helmets did not have US certification. Typically, that is not a problem unless an official checks helmet stickers. At Worlds, we had to show up at technical inspection with bikes and helmets.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

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    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Do you think either of those helmets are road legal? Do you think the visor would fog up in a 55 minute criterium in hot and humid weather?

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    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Giro claims the new helmet rides very cool.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

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    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Hmmm.

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    Senior Member VanceMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    Do you think either of those helmets are road legal? Do you think the visor would fog up in a 55 minute criterium in hot and humid weather?
    Both will be legal. I wouldn't imagine anyone would be using the Kask for anything but a TT. The visor on the Giro is easily removed (magnets)... and in fact, Hammer was using it without visor and regular sunglasses in the scratch race Hermes mentions.

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    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    I owe myself a new helmet. Available Spring 2013.

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    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasm54 View Post
    I don't understand the reference to "less than a year's training" for Kenny.... If there was something new out there, they wouldn't be the only people to know about it, and someone would be whispering.
    It was a big improvement between Worlds and the Olympics in a sport where you're usually looking at small gains. Bauge wasn't even in the same stadium. Of course Bauge could have had an off day and the point about Bauge missing tests is well taken. I'm less jaded/skeptical about the GB track team BTW.

    As far as someone having secret sauce, it happens.

    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post

    As far as someone having secret sauce, it happens.
    Yes. There was plenty of whispering, though, wasn't there?

    Listen, I'm not a true believer, anything is possible.

  9. #34
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    BBC article. Here are a couple of excerpts. I always wash my hands but I need to do it better!

    "The whole principle came from the idea that if you broke down everything you could think of that goes into riding a bike, and then improved it by 1%, you will get a significant increase when you put them all together," he explained, without looking at all like the evil mastermind of a mysterious sect.

    There's fitness and conditioning, of course, but there are other things that might seem on the periphery, like sleeping in the right position, having the same pillow when you are away and training in different places. "Do you really know how to clean your hands? Without leaving the bits between your fingers?

    So the secret of British cycling's success is taking your own pillow with you when you travel, and cleaning your hands properly. Sorry, Dave, but that's not going to wash with the opponents you have just steamrollered for the second Games in succession. They want cheating, they want witchcraft, they want an excuse.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  10. #35
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    When I took the pursuit clinic at Velo Sports Center in LA from Fast Track Coaching, Dave Le Grys spent a lot of time with us on the details of riding the 250 indoor track. It is common knowledge that the shortest distance around the track is the black line. But actually it is not. The shortest distance around the track is just to the outside of the large blue band which is about 4 inches inside of the black line. To discourage racers from taking a shortcut, sponges are placed on the blue band. If you hit them, it slows the bike down. Dave wanted us to ride between the black line and the blue band. He put out the sponges.

    We then practiced riding between the black line and the blue band at flying one lap pace. The theory being that higher speed is much more difficult to hit the mark but once one can do it, then it is even easier at race pace and one is prepared for faster speeds.

    Look, I am not an Olympian, Pro Racer but just another masters trying to learn the sport and improve. However, no one wants to train like that and coaches do not want to bother with putting out the sponges to practice. I know of no racers, except me and my wife, that want to just practice riding between the black line and the blue band.

    Does Team GB do it? I suspect they do this at Manchester all the time.

    I took two starting clinics from these guys and between the clinics and watching video including my own, I think I really understand starting out of a starting gate. I watched the women's omnium and my wife has a better technical start than 95% of the athletes but similar to GB. Now the women are monster strong but technically, they did not explode far enough forward with straight arms out of the starting gate.

    Sarah Hammer, IMO, missed her start in the 500 meter omnium. There is a 5 countdown. You go up on two and back on one and then explode forward. Sarah was up on two and back on 1/2 and then came forward too fast and hung a little in the gate. At least that is what it looked like from the angle shown in the video feed I got.

    GB was perfect on the starts and of course Chris Hoy defines what a good standing start is.

    I am helping out with the women's team pursuit program and one of the female mentors who also coaches was providing tips on the standing start. She told the women not to go back behind the saddle and to just stand up and press down. She has a good start and if she used the method I learned she would be great.

    You see in cycling, technique and know how is relative and in flux. Everyone has an opinion and many coaches have their own way of doing things which may or may not produce the best results and racers want to do things their own way.

    The real way to get fast is to copy Dave Le Grys. Here he is stooping down when Team USA women are starting team pursuit. It looks like Dave is giving Sarah Hammer a smooch on her butt. Hey Dave, even I can execute against that objective. Of course, one does have to get Hammer in the right position and be in the right spot

    Last edited by Hermes; 08-08-12 at 11:10 AM.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  11. #36
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    I know of no racers, except me and my wife, that want to just practice riding between the black line and the blue band.

  12. #37
    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    Sarah Hammer, IMO, missed her start in the 500 meter omnium. There is a 5 countdown. You go up on two and back on one and then explode forward. Sarah was up on two and back on 1/2 and then came forward too fast and hung a little in the gate. At least that is what it looked like from the angle shown in the video feed I got.
    That is right, and you're in good company in spotting it. Chris Boardman was providing the expert analysis on the BBC and pointed out that Trott had murdered Hammer at the start. And in his opinion, Trott's perfect start was worth a half second to her. Trott beat Hammer by 0.8 seconds. Had Hammer been only 0.3 behind her she would now have the gold medal.

  13. #38
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasm54 View Post
    That is right, and you're in good company in spotting it. Chris Boardman was providing the expert analysis on the BBC and pointed out that Trott had murdered Hammer at the start. And in his opinion, Trott's perfect start was worth a half second to her. Trott beat Hammer by 0.8 seconds. Had Hammer been only 0.3 behind her she would now have the gold medal.
    IMO, Trott's start out of the mechanical gate was technically perfect.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  14. #39
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    IMO, Trott's start out of the mechanical gate was technically perfect.
    And she has a great smile to boot!
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

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    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    And she has a great smile to boot!
    She has. And she's a great example of how success breeds success. Some of our national papers have been carrying a picture of her, aged twelve, with Bradley Wiggins, who has draped his gold medal from Athens around her neck. And a slightly later one of her with Pendleton. No doubt she'll already have inspired some potential champions in her turn.

  16. #41
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    In the spirit of the "no limits", just think what GB could have accomplished and inspired in future generations if the Olympic committee had not changed the rules and eliminated the individual track events in favor of the omnium or kept everything the same and added the omnium. I wonder if adjusting the events would favor individual countries and do politics play into these decisions. Nah. What am I thinking.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  17. #42
    Dharma Dog lhbernhardt's Avatar
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    On riding inside the black line: This is such an obvious advantage I'm surprised so few people do it! I call the area between the blue band and the black line the "pursuiter's lane." Anytime I'm training at the bottom of the track, I'm on the black line or below. It's just a normal part of training, working on the technique. And you get to the point where you don't even look down, you know just where your front wheel is! And it's still surprising in a pace line just how few riders do this. Back in the 90's, I recall being in a training race with one of the top elite-age Canadian pursuiters in front of me. Going around the corner at 60 kmh, he was just nailed to the black line! It has to become second nature.

    When I was in Manchester in 1995, they used starting machines, and it was my first experience with one. The English rider who showed us how to work with them told us that it was best to "push back" on the rear pedal just before the start. That makes the reaction - coming down hard on the lead foot - much more explosive! That's why you rock back at "1". Again, so obvious!

    Luis

  18. #43
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lhbernhardt View Post
    The English rider who showed us how to work with them told us that it was best to "push back" on the rear pedal just before the start. That makes the reaction - coming down hard on the lead foot - much more explosive! That's why you rock back at "1". Again, so obvious!

    Luis
    Took me a sec to remember that pushing back on the pedal was possible. I need a fixie.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  19. #44
    Dharma Dog lhbernhardt's Avatar
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    But the Brits have always been concerned with small details on the track. Back in the 70's, I attended a track session coached by then-Canadian national coach and ex-champion pursuiter Norman Sheil. For the pursuit start, he had us put the bike high in the sprinter's lane, and pointed slightly downhill so we'd have the advantage of a slight downhill start (or at least not be taking the first pedal stroke uphill!). If the official objects to the bike pointing downhill, you just turn slightly left at the start.

    And rocking back is even useful in a held start where your holder is not allowed to push. You just let them know you'll be pushing back. When you push back at "1," (or even unexpectedly a half-second later) they resist the push by pushing forward, and if you time it right, you get a gentle push off the line!

    And it's interesting to see all the mistakes riders make, especially at a start. Some signs of bad (or no) coaching:

    - mounting the bike on the track (at the start line) from the left side (you ALWAYS mount a bike on the track from uptrack (unless you're at the rail), it's way shorter distance to the saddle!)

    - trying to steer the bike as it's being leveled by the holder (keeping the bars dead straight at the start keeps the bike upright, no matter how far over it gets tilted!).

    - the rider gets out of the saddle at "5." Tiring out the start muscles before the race even begins!

    Luis

  20. #45
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    IMO, the next track dynasty will emerge from Cleveland, Ohio. They have a new 160 meter wooden track.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  21. #46
    Dharma Dog lhbernhardt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    IMO, the next track dynasty will emerge from Cleveland, Ohio. They have a new 160 meter wooden track.
    I'd have thought they would have come from SouCal, which has the best indoor facility in North America. But a track definitely helps people become better bike racers overall. I don't consider anyone to be a "compleat bike racer" unless they've got significant track racing experience. I've always liked Roger Young's take on track racing: you go to a road race, and if you're strong enough, you get to practice one finish. You go to a track race, and you get to practice at least three finishes. Later in the season, when it really counts, you've got a 6-rider breakaway approaching a flat finish. One of the riders in the break is a trackie. Who do you put your money on?

    The indoor 200-meter track in Vancouver (Burnaby, about 10 minutes from my house) has definitely helped Canada, especially the women. But there's also a 138-meter indoor track in London, ON. And I'm not sure whether or not the board track in Dieppe, NB is covered. And I'm not sure if there's any more or better riders coming out of those areas yet. But it takes many years to develop the system and the riders, and to get past ingrained attitudes and traditional approaches. I think the Brits have done a remarkable job of this, but I think it started with the Manchester track in the early 90's.

    Luis

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    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lhbernhardt View Post
    I think the Brits have done a remarkable job of this, but I think it started with the Manchester track in the early 90's.

    Luis
    A few years earlier, with the Edinburgh velodrome at Meadowbank. But it was at Manchester that they achieved a critical mass and gathered momentum.

  23. #48
    Dharma Dog lhbernhardt's Avatar
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    I remember reading in one of the English cycling mags that before Manchester they had an indoor training velodrome at some place called Calshot?

    Luis

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    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lhbernhardt View Post
    I remember reading in one of the English cycling mags that before Manchester they had an indoor training velodrome at some place called Calshot?

    Luis
    Wow, now you're going back a bit. Calshot was the UK's first indoor track - the 1948 London Olympics had used the outdoor track at Herne Hill - and was built in a disused WW2 aircraft hanger, iirc. I think there's still a track there.

  25. #50
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    I know this sounds strange, given I've never ridden track in my life, but I am seriously considering organizing an effort to build a track here in AZ. Sort of a retirement gig.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

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