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  1. #76
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    That course neutralizes one of my strengths, cornering at high speeds and managing power through them. It's a power rider's course. I'm also bringing my kid with me, and it's a) not downtown with a cool place to explore while I'm racing and b) only four chances to watch Dad and c) it's too long a course for them to take pictures at more than one point.

    If I'm OTF I will not be alone, I guarantee it. There will be a sprint, and I'm not a huge fan of having to turn left coasting down from 40mph or risk ending up on the freeway. It's a course designed by a runner, not a cyclist.

  2. #77
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    If we start sending them input about start finish they might make a change. It's insane right now and asking for trouble.

    Is there a schedule out? If they combine the 50-54 and 55-59 we can put together an OTF consortium.

  3. #78
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    If I'm OTF I will not be alone, I guarantee it.
    Not if I can help it, you won't. I may be inexperienced, but I'm not an idiot.

    However my build will be focused on the TT's, and I'd be happy to ride for you in the <insert appropriate name for that course here>. Even without the turns, you have the chops for the Gold.

  4. #79
    Senior Member VanceMac's Avatar
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    Ha! The photo of that finish line looks like something from Bad Idea Jeans. "So I was thinking, we'll just put the finish line before the road narrows into a funnel and then hits a T-intersection. Perfect, right?"

  5. #80
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Sent them this:

    Greetings,


    I just reviewed the course for the 20k and 40k road races. Whoever placed the finish line on Erieside so close to a 90 degree turn is asking for a lot of ambulance rides. Depending on wind conditions you can have a large group of people crossing the finish line at 40+ MPH in a full sprint with less than 180 feet to slow down. People will be hitting the brakes hard and all it will take is for one person to be a little late to cause a massive pileup.



    This is what happens when one person makes contact:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5Z8Bf57HXs


    I'd ask that the finish line be moved back at least another 200' to allow riders a modicum of room to decelerate safely.


    Sincerely,


    Kurt R Bickel 50-54

    USAC Category 1
    3 x National Champion

  6. #81
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    if you go 20 blocks to the east, you will be on the campus where MEA and I went to college and we met. Depending on the weather, the wind will be interesting on this course since it blows off the lake. The leg out will probably be into the wind and leg back with the wind.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  7. #82
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    I think they are planning to award a black jersey for the longest skid mark after the finish.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  8. #83
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    If we start sending them input about start finish they might make a change. It's insane right now and asking for trouble.

    Is there a schedule out? If they combine the 50-54 and 55-59 we can put together an OTF consortium.
    No race day schedule yet, no, just days of the races. If they combine, it will be a double edged sword. Prep and planning will be key.

    Thanks for the link. I was planning to find that link tonight but you saved me the trouble.

  9. #84
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    Sent them this:

    Greetings,


    I just reviewed the course for the 20k and 40k road races. Whoever placed the finish line on Erieside so close to a 90 degree turn is asking for a lot of ambulance rides. Depending on wind conditions you can have a large group of people crossing the finish line at 40+ MPH in a full sprint with less than 180 feet to slow down. People will be hitting the brakes hard and all it will take is for one person to be a little late to cause a massive pileup.



    This is what happens when one person makes contact:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5Z8Bf57HXs


    I'd ask that the finish line be moved back at least another 200' to allow riders a modicum of room to decelerate safely.


    Sincerely,


    Kurt R Bickel 50-54

    USAC Category 1
    3 x National Champion
    Nice job. I'll mention that 180 feet is about 3 seconds before impending doom.

  10. #85
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    I just sent them this:

    Hi,

    I am excited to be traveling to Cleveland for the races, and appreciate your getting the details of the course out to us cyclists in advance. But please consider moving the finish line back at least a couple of hundred feet, to allow us all room to slow down before hitting that corner which is, right now, far too close to the finish line. I expect to be hitting that finish line at about 40mph, in a pack of other racers. The stretch immediately after a finish is frequently a point where crashes can occur, and having to slow rapidly will make that stretch all the more dangerous. I envision lots of burning rubber as people try to slow enough to be able to get around the turn.

    Thanks again,


  11. #86
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    Not if I can help it, you won't. I may be inexperienced, but I'm not an idiot.

    However my build will be focused on the TT's, and I'd be happy to ride for you in the <insert appropriate name for that course here>. Even without the turns, you have the chops for the Gold.
    Thanks. I hope so. This is a national class event, though. There are boatload of Cat1 Master crit monsters in the area, not to mention all over the country. It's going to be tough.

    EDIT: Good job AZT.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    I just sent them this:

    Hi,

    I am excited to be traveling to Cleveland for the races, and appreciate your getting the details of the course out to us cyclists in advance. But please consider moving the finish line back at least a couple of hundred feet, to allow us all room to slow down before hitting that corner which is, right now, far too close to the finish line. I expect to be hitting that finish line at about 40mph, in a pack of other racers. The stretch immediately after a finish is frequently a point where crashes can occur, and having to slow rapidly will make that stretch all the more dangerous. I envision lots of burning rubber as people try to slow enough to be able to get around the turn.

    Thanks again,

    I would suggest a few hundred meters not feet. At 40 mph, you will cover 200 meters in about 11 seconds. And there is the celebration such as the ****** shot, wheely or pumping your arms or just with your arms up no hands coasting at 35 mph after crossing the line.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  13. #88
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    40mph is about 60 fps. The current line looks pretty much like what RacerEx says, under 200 feet. That's 3-4 seconds. Disaster.

  14. #89
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    Thanks. I hope so. This is a national class event, though. There are boatload of Cat1 Master crit monsters in the area, not to mention all over the country. It's going to be tough.

    EDIT: Good job AZT.
    Do they have a registered riders list anywhere?

  15. #90
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Registration closes May 1st. I haven't seen anything preliminary.

  16. #91
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    It looks to me to be the much the same course that they do the Cleveland Triathlon on. That explains the finish line position. There is plenty of time to adjust the finish line. I'll bet that they are getting plenty of input from the local racers.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  17. #92
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Hi,


    Thank you for your recent communication regarding the details of the cycling course for this year's national championship event. I am excited and looking forward to competing in Cleveland. However, I have serious concerns regarding the finish of the 20K and 40K cycling course. The finish line appears to be less than 200 feet from an intersection. With sprint speeds at or exceeding 40mph, forcing racers to slow and turn left (or right) in approximately three seconds is a recipe for disaster. Please consider changing the finish of the course to allow a longer, safer rollout after the finish line. Safety should be paramount at a national class event like this.


    Thank you for your consideration.


    <shovelhd>

    CT M55+ Gold Medalist 20K and 40K

  18. #93
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
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    Thank you for contacting the NSGA. We appreciate you taking the time to
    provide us with the suggestion to improve the National Games. Your
    suggestion has been documented, and will be presented before the Games
    Committee. We are always interested in feedback from our current athletes
    on ways we can improve the Games.


    Best of luck with your future competitions and endeavors!

  19. #94
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    What a nice response.

    Hopefully, none of you guys have UCI/International licenses.

    Ranking of cycling institutions from worst to the least worst - Senior Games, UCI and USA Cycling.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  20. #95
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    I got the same canned response.

  21. #96
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Course change. Somebody call Hollywood, this could make for an epic scene. Now we get to sprint into the convention center.

    http://nsga.com/media/documents/cour...-elevation.pdf

  22. #97
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    Course change. Somebody call Hollywood, this could make for an epic scene. Now we get to sprint into the convention center.

    http://nsga.com/media/documents/cour...-elevation.pdf
    That adds a little kicker hill coming off the Shoreway before the final turns.
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  23. #98
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Pulling the plug on the midwest trip. Not one huge thing but the sum of too many small family/racing/life things. Resetting to be closer to home, take care of some family obligations, do a few local races, then try to be the oldest fart to qualify for the ride off at Elite Track Nats at Carson in the 4k.

    Going to miss meeting/seeing you guys.

  24. #99
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    The hill is not going to make a difference. We're all gonna die.

    They said that they are going to start everyone in two waves, women first then men, just like a gasp triathlon. Great. So now there will be hundreds of guys lined up going straight into a chicane. Wonderful. Maybe I should cancel my hotel room and camp out on the line. Warmup? No way. Gotta line up early.

  25. #100
    Old Road Racer Cleave's Avatar
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    I thought PR on the cycling event was that someone with a lot of bike racing promotion experience was setting this up? So much for those reassuring thoughts. Good luck out there.

    BTW, are we down to @shovelhd and @Allegheny Jet?

    I think I'm going to start a general National/State Senior Games thread as I have a very high degree of confidence that we (the Mrs and I) are going to compete in the next one in 2015 (assuming I can qualify).
    Thanks.
    Cleave
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