Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Masters Racing (All Disciplines) Race on the track or road or on your mountainbike in the Masters Category? Want to talk tactics, strategy and training with your peers?

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-23-12, 09:22 AM   #26
Hermes 
Elite Rider
 
Hermes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Bikes: Too Many
Posts: 9,697
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esteban58 View Post
This is why 'power measurement' is so damn confusing...
This is why crank based power measurement is the way to go. The farther you go down the rabbit hole and want more wheel choices from an inventory, a power tap makes less sense. For example, you may want a cheap rear wheel with a tire for use on the trainer or you want to ride race wheels just because but want power measurement.
__________________
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit. Aristotle

Cat: Killer
Hermes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-12, 09:35 AM   #27
shovelhd 
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Bikes: Yes
Posts: 15,429
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
It's the way to go if you have one bike or if you have a boatload of cash. For those with multiple bikes that don't have a boatload of cash, a Powertap makes a great deal of sense. Even two Powertaps, one race, one training, makes a great deal of sense. The best combination that I have found, for me, is a Quarq on the race bike, and a Powertap on the CX/commuter bike. No swapping cranks, and if the Quarq dies, I still have power.
shovelhd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-12, 09:39 AM   #28
revchuck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: South Louisiana
Bikes: Cannondale CAAD9
Posts: 5,630
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
This is why crank based power measurement is the way to go. The farther you go down the rabbit hole and want more wheel choices from an inventory, a power tap makes less sense. For example, you may want a cheap rear wheel with a tire for use on the trainer or you want to ride race wheels just because but want power measurement.
This is true, but so is its inverse - if you ride more than one bike, you can swap wheel sets more easily than cranks. In the best of all possible worlds, we'd have crank-based power on each bike, and multiple wheelsets for each bike as well.
revchuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-12, 10:13 AM   #29
sarals 
Idiot Emeritus
 
sarals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Central Coast CA
Bikes: 2011 Prius Three, Specialized Venge, Felt B16, Look 566, Giant TCXW
Posts: 5,442
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
It's the way to go if you have one bike or if you have a boatload of cash. For those with multiple bikes that don't have a boatload of cash, a Powertap makes a great deal of sense. Even two Powertaps, one race, one training, makes a great deal of sense. The best combination that I have found, for me, is a Quarq on the race bike, and a Powertap on the CX/commuter bike. No swapping cranks, and if the Quarq dies, I still have power.
This is what I'd do, if I could afford it. As it stands for me, my race bike will NOT have power, at least this season. It's totally impractical on many fronts to consider moving my PT wheel over to my Bianchi just for races. I'll go on HR and PE in races.
__________________
Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."
sarals is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-12, 10:16 AM   #30
shovelhd 
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Bikes: Yes
Posts: 15,429
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
That is exactly what I did in 2011. I won the biggest race of my career on HR and RPE.
shovelhd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-12, 11:12 AM   #31
revchuck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: South Louisiana
Bikes: Cannondale CAAD9
Posts: 5,630
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Quote:
Even two Powertaps, one race, one training, makes a great deal of sense.
This is what I'm working towards. That way I could keep my aluminum Allez on the trainer and only take it off for nasty weather rides, and ride my carbon Look more. Right now the Allez is getting 80+% of the miles this year. I'm squirreling away dribs and drabs of cash for the next PT.
revchuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-12, 08:01 AM   #32
shovelhd 
Senior Member
 
shovelhd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Western MA
Bikes: Yes
Posts: 15,429
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
PSA: Anyone looking for a wireless compact power meter -

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=121529

It's a compact, 175mm, and it's not the top of the line, but it's an almost new wireless SRM with a Rotor BB for $900. Steal.
shovelhd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-12, 09:05 AM   #33
revchuck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: South Louisiana
Bikes: Cannondale CAAD9
Posts: 5,630
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
PSA: Anyone looking for a wireless compact power meter -

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=121529

It's a compact, 175mm, and it's not the top of the line, but it's an almost new wireless SRM with a Rotor BB for $900. Steal.
Dang, that is a really good deal...wonder if I could scratch up the scratch for that...
revchuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-12, 03:41 PM   #34
sarals 
Idiot Emeritus
 
sarals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Central Coast CA
Bikes: 2011 Prius Three, Specialized Venge, Felt B16, Look 566, Giant TCXW
Posts: 5,442
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
I see where Competitive Cyclist just announced a "wheelset sale"....
__________________
Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."
sarals is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-13, 07:36 PM   #35
Bootlegger
Velcro
 
Bootlegger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Berlin Heights, Ohio
Bikes: Ridley Damocles ISP / Specialized Epic 29er
Posts: 66
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Train heavy, race light. I build my own wheels so I'm always experimenting. Built up a nice set of HED C2's with a PT and King last year for training that I gave to my son (he races for Marian University). I'd like to duplicate that and go tubeless next time. Very nice set-up. I race carbon tubulars when the roads permit.
Bootlegger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-13, 11:53 AM   #36
sarals 
Idiot Emeritus
 
sarals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Central Coast CA
Bikes: 2011 Prius Three, Specialized Venge, Felt B16, Look 566, Giant TCXW
Posts: 5,442
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
I just got my little (unmanicured) hands on a pair of Campy Euros wheels. They're at the LBS getting trued and bearing inspection/service. They're immaculate. The rear has a Campy freewheel and 13t - 29 cassette, so I'll try them out on the L'una. I don't know how they'll compare to the Easton EA90 Aero wheels on it now, but I'll report back with my findings.
__________________
Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."
sarals is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-13, 01:10 PM   #37
revchuck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: South Louisiana
Bikes: Cannondale CAAD9
Posts: 5,630
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Sara - Sounds pretty good to me. My only concern is whether your RD can handle the 29t cog. I know many of them can, just don't know which. Hope it works out!
revchuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-13, 01:20 PM   #38
Esteban58
West Coast Weenie
Thread Starter
 
Esteban58's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Sunnyvale, CA.
Bikes: 2013 Caletti, Trek 7500 fx
Posts: 639
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Is that 10 or 11 spd Sara?
Esteban58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-13, 01:42 PM   #39
sarals 
Idiot Emeritus
 
sarals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Central Coast CA
Bikes: 2011 Prius Three, Specialized Venge, Felt B16, Look 566, Giant TCXW
Posts: 5,442
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
It's a Chorus 10 speed. The bike they came off of was the donor bike for my entire group, now I have the wheels, too. The RD can handle that 29 cog, no problem!
__________________
Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."
sarals is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-13, 02:29 PM   #40
revchuck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: South Louisiana
Bikes: Cannondale CAAD9
Posts: 5,630
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarals View Post
It's a Chorus 10 speed. The bike they came off of was the donor bike for my entire group, now I have the wheels, too. The RD can handle that 29 cog, no problem!
Cool! Now you just have to get some olive oil for lube.
revchuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-13, 03:43 PM   #41
sarals 
Idiot Emeritus
 
sarals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Central Coast CA
Bikes: 2011 Prius Three, Specialized Venge, Felt B16, Look 566, Giant TCXW
Posts: 5,442
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by revchuck View Post
Cool! Now you just have to get some olive oil for lube.
__________________
Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."
sarals is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-13, 04:31 PM   #42
Cleave
Old Road Racer
 
Cleave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: SoCal
Bikes: Bicycle Transportation: 2013 Ford Focus Electric, 2010 Toyota Prius
Posts: 5,250
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Sara, I guess you have the medium length rear derailleur cage if it's easy. The short cage can do 29T with very careful adjustment. Enjoy the wheels!
__________________
Thanks.
Cleave
"Real men wear pink."
See my cycling photos at http://www.pbase.com/cleavel/bicycling
See my bikes at http://www.pbase.com/cleavel/mybicycles
Visit my blog at http://cleavesblant.wordpress.com/
Lightning Velo Cycling Club: http://www.lightningvelo.org/
Cleave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-13, 04:36 PM   #43
sarals 
Idiot Emeritus
 
sarals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Central Coast CA
Bikes: 2011 Prius Three, Specialized Venge, Felt B16, Look 566, Giant TCXW
Posts: 5,442
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleave View Post
Sara, I guess you have the medium length rear derailleur cage if it's easy. The short cage can do 29T with very careful adjustment. Enjoy the wheels!
Thanks, Cleave!

Here's the RD...

__________________
Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."
sarals is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-13, 05:28 PM   #44
Cleave
Old Road Racer
 
Cleave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: SoCal
Bikes: Bicycle Transportation: 2013 Ford Focus Electric, 2010 Toyota Prius
Posts: 5,250
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Sara, that looks like a short cage to me. Campagnolo's literature says 26T max but DaveSSS had a primer in the 41 on how to make a 29T work with a Campy short cage derailleur. I successfully tried it this past summer. I only used it once and I ended up with a separate chain cut to just the right length to go with the 29T cassette. I'll see if I can relocate the thread later.
__________________
Thanks.
Cleave
"Real men wear pink."
See my cycling photos at http://www.pbase.com/cleavel/bicycling
See my bikes at http://www.pbase.com/cleavel/mybicycles
Visit my blog at http://cleavesblant.wordpress.com/
Lightning Velo Cycling Club: http://www.lightningvelo.org/
Cleave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-13, 07:40 PM   #45
sarals 
Idiot Emeritus
 
sarals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Central Coast CA
Bikes: 2011 Prius Three, Specialized Venge, Felt B16, Look 566, Giant TCXW
Posts: 5,442
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleave View Post
Sara, that looks like a short cage to me. Campagnolo's literature says 26T max but DaveSSS had a primer in the 41 on how to make a 29T work with a Campy short cage derailleur. I successfully tried it this past summer. I only used it once and I ended up with a separate chain cut to just the right length to go with the 29T cassette. I'll see if I can relocate the thread later.
Okay, thanks!
__________________
Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."
sarals is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-13, 12:30 PM   #46
sarals 
Idiot Emeritus
 
sarals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Central Coast CA
Bikes: 2011 Prius Three, Specialized Venge, Felt B16, Look 566, Giant TCXW
Posts: 5,442
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Cleave, I'm going to put the 13-26 cassette on the Euros wheels, for now. I'll deal with derailleurs later. That might involve putting on a medium cage Chorus or Record RD. That's going to have to wait, I have bigger fish to fry right now.

I'm also reconsidering my idea of racing the L'una. It's too special a bike to risk banging up. I'm going to work on the Look to see if I can get it to fit better, and I'll race it. I'll put a 11-25 Shimano cassette/freewheel on the Eastons and use them as the racing wheels on the 566. I've secured another Oura saddle (which is just so comfy on Bianchi) for the Look, and I'm going to do the suggested setup on it. I'm going to find some 53-39 rings for the crank, too (it's BCD 130; they're out there). Hey, I raced it last year, I can certainly do it again this year. A new frame or bike is out of the question right now, unless one falls in my lap. Not likely, that.
__________________
Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

Last edited by sarals; 01-06-13 at 01:41 PM.
sarals is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-13, 01:40 PM   #47
sarals 
Idiot Emeritus
 
sarals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Central Coast CA
Bikes: 2011 Prius Three, Specialized Venge, Felt B16, Look 566, Giant TCXW
Posts: 5,442
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Cleave, is this the thread you were talking about?

"...I did find this info from Branford below. If I was to run a 53/39 and 13/28 miche I would have a CW of 29. Just 2 points higher than campy recommended 27 on a short cage. Branford confirms that campy short cage will shift into a 29 just performance may not be optimum.... Only $41 for the miche may be worth it for science sake.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chain Capacity and Cage Length
Campagnolo officially recommends various rear derailleur cage lengths for use with specific cassette and double or triple chain ring combinations. However, it is important to understand that any 1999 to current, Campagnolo 10 speed rear derailleur, will shift up to a 29 tooth cog and down to an 11 tooth cog. The problem you will run into is that the derailleur cage may not be long enough to take up all the slack in the chain for a wide range. Thus Campagnolo recommends using a short cage derailleur with a maximum cassette cog size of 26 teeth even though it will shift to a 29 tooth cog. Chain wrap or CW is a helpful concept to understand when you need to determine proper derailleur cage length.

Current Record, Chorus, Centaur and Veloce 9 and 10 speed rear derailleurs use the same three cage lengths; 55, 72.5 and 89 mm measured from the center of the upper jockey wheel to the center of the lower jockey wheel. 55 mm cages have a chain wrap value of 27; 72.5 cages have a CW of 36 while 89mm long cages have a chain wrap value of 39.

Chain Wrap is a simple calculation that will help you determine whether the rear derailleur you choose has a long enough cage to take up the chain slack in your drive train. The shorter the cage, the lighter and stiffer the derailleur and the quicker it will shift. Calculate Chain Wrap to get the greatest shifting performance.
To calculate Chain Wrap Capacity determine the difference between your largest and smallest chain ring. Then determine the difference between your largest and smallest cog. Add the differences and you have Chain Wrap Capacity.

Example: 42/52 chain rings and a 12/21 cassette yields a CW of 19. 52 - 42 = 10. 21 - 12 = 9. 10 + 9 = 19. So, with a 42/52 chain ring and a 12-21 cassette you would need a rear derailleur that has a Chain Wrap Capacity of at least 19.
For a 39/53 and a 13/26 combo you will need a minimum CW of 27. 53-39 = 14. 26 - 13 = 13. 14 + 13 = 27. In practice the CW numbers are flexible by one or two points. You could use a 39/53 with a 12-26 cassette with a CW of 27 even though the calculation calls for 28.
"
__________________
Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."
sarals is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-13, 11:48 AM   #48
sarals 
Idiot Emeritus
 
sarals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Central Coast CA
Bikes: 2011 Prius Three, Specialized Venge, Felt B16, Look 566, Giant TCXW
Posts: 5,442
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Would you or wouldn't you? And why?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271132891266...84.m1423.l2649
__________________
Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."
sarals is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-13, 11:54 AM   #49
sarals 
Idiot Emeritus
 
sarals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Central Coast CA
Bikes: 2011 Prius Three, Specialized Venge, Felt B16, Look 566, Giant TCXW
Posts: 5,442
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
I've been reading where a lot of you East Coasties are really high on the Psimet wheels. They're reasonably priced, too.
__________________
Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."
sarals is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-13, 01:15 PM   #50
Esteban58
West Coast Weenie
Thread Starter
 
Esteban58's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Sunnyvale, CA.
Bikes: 2013 Caletti, Trek 7500 fx
Posts: 639
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarals View Post
Would you or wouldn't you? And why?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271132891266...84.m1423.l2649

I'll admit to a general fear of ebay... but it depends on your goal... that weight seems kinda high for carbon.
I guess it depends on what you're looking for.
Esteban58 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:22 AM.