Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 59
  1. #1
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Let me check.
    My Bikes
    Of course.
    Posts
    11,245
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Women pros: More balls than most of the men

    Competitor Radio Interview:

    http://competitorradio.competitor.com/?s=inga

    From Cycling News article on Nicole Cooks retirement:

    Cooke also spoke of how she had to take four of her teams to court over the years to recoup unpaid wages and compared her situation with some figures involved in the Armstrong case.

    "When Lance cries on Oprah later this week and she passes him a tissue, spare a thought for all of those genuine people who walked away with no reward, Cooke said. "Tyler Hamilton will make more money from a book describing how he cheated than I will make in all my years of honest labour."

  2. #2
    Old Road Racer Cleave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    SoCal
    My Bikes
    Bicycle Transportation: 2013 Ford Focus Electric, 2010 Toyota Prius
    Posts
    4,945
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hi, I think you have to pay for a subscription to hear the Inga Thompson interview.

    Here's a link to Nicole Cook's blog:

    http://www.nicolecooke.com/index.php...id=1&Itemid=18
    Thanks.
    Cleave
    "Real men wear pink."
    See my cycling photos at http://www.pbase.com/cleavel/bicycling
    See my bikes at http://www.pbase.com/cleavel/mybicycles
    Visit my blog at http://cleavesblant.wordpress.com/
    Lightning Velo Cycling Club: http://www.lightningvelo.org/

  3. #3
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Let me check.
    My Bikes
    Of course.
    Posts
    11,245
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleave View Post
    Hi, I think you have to pay for a subscription to hear the Inga Thompson interview.

    Here's a link to Nicole Cook's blog:

    http://www.nicolecooke.com/index.php...id=1&Itemid=18
    Nope. I download those podcasts all the time.

  4. #4
    West Coast Weenie Esteban58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Sunnyvale, CA.
    My Bikes
    2013 Caletti, Trek 7500 fx
    Posts
    639
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well that was an interesting read... It would be nice if the economics of professional sports could be somehow made 'fair' - fair to all of the competitors - men, women, stars, domestiques, fans, and people dependent on the sport for a living (e.g. the stadium workers) - but I don't see that happening.
    there is no signature.

  5. #5
    Bourbon junkie ricebowl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    NorCal
    Posts
    653
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Define "fair"
    Quote Originally Posted by Esteban58 View Post
    It would be nice if the economics of professional sports could be somehow made 'fair' - fair to all of the competitors - men, women, stars, domestiques, fans, and people dependent on the sport for a living (e.g. the stadium workers) - but I don't see that happening.
    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
    Show me just one law that says that a person has a right to exercise their judgement or common sense, just one.

  6. #6
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Central Coast CA
    My Bikes
    2011 Prius Three, Cannondale CAAD 10.3, Felt B16
    Posts
    4,158
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's pretty simple to me. Equal pay for equal labor.

    Well, here we go...
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  7. #7
    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Uncertain
    Posts
    6,678
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks for starting this thread, Ex. I'm an admirer of Cooke - most of those who have found her "difficult" are the apologists for the establishment which has failed so miserably either to tackle doping or to support the womens branch of the sport.

    Can't link to her blog for some reason, perhaps because it is receiving too much traffic. For those with the same problem,
    here is the full text of her retirement statement. It's lengthy, but it is a remarkable and, to my mind, impressive document.

    For example! Here she is on the male cyclists who claim that it wasimpossible to resist the pressure to take drugs:

    Pressure was put on me but I was determined, and fortunate. I had a very good team-mate who was in a similar predicament and she took the same stance I did. Team-mates that say "NO" are priceless. I would have been very naive to think that I would not encounter moments, like this. I am appalled that so many men bleat on about the fact that the pressures were too great. Too great for what? This is not doing 71 mph on the motorway when the legal limit is 70. This is stealing somebody else's livelihood. It is theft just as much as putting your hand in a purse or wallet and taking money is theft. Theft has gone on since the dawn of time but because somebody, somewhere else, does it, does not mean it is right for you to do it. There can be no excuse.
    Last edited by chasm54; 01-15-13 at 03:57 AM.

  8. #8
    Curmudgeon Wil Davis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Nausea, New Hamster
    My Bikes
    (see http://wildavis.smugmug.com/Bikes) Bianchi Veloce (2005), Nishiki Cascade (1992), Schwinn Super Sport (1983)
    Posts
    1,572
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I just listened to the whole thing. Very impressive! Many thanks for posting!
    "" - Marcel Marceau

  9. #9
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    My Bikes
    Giant Propel, Cervelo P2
    Posts
    5,481
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    She decides to ride bikes due to a running injury, and 5 races later she is in the olympic trials.. :-)

    She is a great interview.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  10. #10
    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Uncertain
    Posts
    6,678
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    She decides to ride bikes due to a running injury, and 5 races later she is in the olympic trials.. :-)

    She is a great interview.
    And a great rider, too. Maybe as good as Vos, who has eclipsed her but with the benefit of a less turbulent time. Hard to think of a world champion in any other professional sport who, year after year, has to sue their employers for breach of contract.

  11. #11
    A might bewildered... Dudelsack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Loovul
    My Bikes
    Bacchetta Giro ATT 26; Lemond Buenos Aires
    Posts
    6,267
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sarals View Post
    It's pretty simple to me. Equal pay for equal labor.

    Well, here we go...
    Equal pay for equal wattage? Equal pay for equal joules? It all gets so complicated...

  12. #12
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    My Bikes
    Too Many
    Posts
    8,279
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I liked the retirement statement and her attitude as an athlete toward drug use and taking a position. I agree with her assessment of Tyler Hamilton.

    IMO, this statement is the compelling reason she was successful riding without using drugs.

    From a longer paragraph closing sentence. "I am so very fortunate to have been able to have won clean."

    Followed by this paragraph:

    Perhaps a major factor is that the races are short – only 3 hours long! This is perhaps a hard and unpopular fact that the male side may need to embrace if it is genuine about wanting to clean itself up."
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  13. #13
    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Uncertain
    Posts
    6,678
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dudelsack View Post
    Equal pay for equal wattage? Equal pay for equal joules? It all gets so complicated...
    It is indeed complicated, but not for that reason. The incomes of sports professionals, like those of entertainers, is largely dictated by the revenues that can be generated through advertising and PR. Those are related to audience figures. But of course, audience figures are heavily influenced by promotion. If sponsors and TV networks don't promote the product (for example, because women are less powerful than men and they assume this makes it less interesting) we have a self-fulfilling, self-reinforcing cycle.

    I've watched a lot of cycling over a lot of years. Womens' racing is often at least as animated as the male version, and if one tries to detach oneself from the "it's only worth watching the biggest and strongest" mentality, it can be mighty entertaining. Certainly I don't think there is much to choose between the entertainment value of the male and female track teams, for example.

    But the question of equal pay is some way down the road. If we addressed the questionof equal rights, that would be a start. It is absurd that there is a minimum contract wage for men, but not for women. And there's a wider issue of sexism here. We send a very poor message to young women when we imply - more than imply - that great female athletes are somehow less important than their male equivalents.

  14. #14
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Let me check.
    My Bikes
    Of course.
    Posts
    11,245
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    I thought the women's Olympic road race was one of the most visually compelling and exciting races I've seen in a long time. And it was nice not to have to listen to a lot of commentary about so and so coming off a 2 year ban. That said while their "house" has been cleaner, they still have cockroaches.

  15. #15
    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Uncertain
    Posts
    6,678
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    I thought the women's Olympic road race was one of the most visually compelling and exciting races I've seen in a long time. And it was nice not to have to listen to a lot of commentary about so and so coming off a 2 year ban. That said while their "house" has been cleaner, they still have cockroaches.
    I agree. And at the olympics, I wish it had been Cooke rather than Armistead contending with Vos in the sprint. Altogether a more equal contest. But politics, more than ability, dictated that Armistead was leading the team.

  16. #16
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Let me check.
    My Bikes
    Of course.
    Posts
    11,245
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by chasm54 View Post
    I agree. And at the olympics, I wish it had been Cooke rather than Armistead contending with Vos in the sprint. Altogether a more equal contest. But politics, more than ability, dictated that Armistead was leading the team.
    Shelly would have beaten them both if she hadn't flatted

  17. #17
    Travelling hopefully chasm54's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Uncertain
    Posts
    6,678
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    Shelly would have beaten them both if she hadn't flatted
    Possibly. Then again, if my Aunt had balls, she'd be my Uncle...

  18. #18
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    My Bikes
    Too Many
    Posts
    8,279
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Racer Ex View Post
    Shelly would have beaten them both if she hadn't flatted
    Amen, Olds is a monster and a former track world cup racer. After the Olympic Committee removed the women's points race from the games, she became a road racer / sprinter.

    In her bid for the World Cup, we ran practice races for her as fund raisers against our men. Here she is taking a sprint from a former Garmin Chipotle pro Daniel Hollaway. Daniel is a fabulous points racer who competed in Elite Nationals last year.

    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  19. #19
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    My Bikes
    Too Many
    Posts
    8,279
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If Holloway had better wheels, he would have beat her.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  20. #20
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    My Bikes
    Giant Propel, Cervelo P2
    Posts
    5,481
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I love how he appears to be working a lot harder she is. She is laughing her way across the line.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  21. #21
    Senior Member Allegheny Jet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Medina, OH
    My Bikes
    confidential infromation that I don't even share with my wife
    Posts
    5,613
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by AzTallRider View Post
    I love how he appears to be working a lot harder she is. She is laughing her way across the line.
    Where you not alive 40 years ago? That picture shows the "thrill of victory and the agony of defeat".
    oldschool areodynamic brick

  22. #22
    Old Road Racer Cleave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    SoCal
    My Bikes
    Bicycle Transportation: 2013 Ford Focus Electric, 2010 Toyota Prius
    Posts
    4,945
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hi, I am definitely not trying to defend Lance or what he did to others along his way to his Oprah confession. It's interesting to hear of the kind of treatment that Inga received from coaches that were and were not associated with Lance. It seems that bad behavior went along with drug use and drug dispensing. IMHO, the fact that some very good women (Thompson, Cooke, et al) were able to withstand the attempts to get them to be "good teammates" is great for the sport and for them personally. However, like it or not, it was still a vastly different circumstance that what the men faced.

    It's one thing for me to say that I have never taken drugs (and I haven't). It's another for a male athlete at the top of the sport to "say no to drugs." The circumstances are completely different.

    I'd like to think that if someone has the integrity to say no at one level, that they would have the same integrity at a different level and environment. Unfortunately, it appears that the ability to say no changes.

    It would be interesting to see what would happen if unconditional amnesty were given to all cyclists -- amateur and professional -- in exchange for information on doping (types and techniques) and anonymously identifying drug sources. Add to that, permanent lifetime bans for any subsequent positive by anyone. Could this kind of framework clean up the sport?
    Thanks.
    Cleave
    "Real men wear pink."
    See my cycling photos at http://www.pbase.com/cleavel/bicycling
    See my bikes at http://www.pbase.com/cleavel/mybicycles
    Visit my blog at http://cleavesblant.wordpress.com/
    Lightning Velo Cycling Club: http://www.lightningvelo.org/

  23. #23
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    My Bikes
    Giant Propel, Cervelo P2
    Posts
    5,481
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Allegheny Jet View Post
    Where you not alive 40 years ago? That picture shows the "thrill of victory and the agony of defeat".
    Hey, I would've watched WWoS just to see the guy go off the side of the ski-jump ramp.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  24. #24
    I need speed AzTallRider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    My Bikes
    Giant Propel, Cervelo P2
    Posts
    5,481
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleave View Post
    It would be interesting to see what would happen if unconditional amnesty were given to all cyclists -- amateur and professional -- in exchange for information on doping (types and techniques) and anonymously identifying drug sources. Add to that, permanent lifetime bans for any subsequent positive by anyone. Could this kind of framework clean up the sport?
    I think you might have to couple the amnesty with Inga's suggestion that all samples saved from past events be taken out and tested using current techniques. That might increase the motivation for people to come forward and take advantage of the amnesty. Otherwise, if they haven't already been caught, then they aren't likely to be caught at all, so where is the motivation to come forward? I wholeheartedly agree with the use of lifetime bans - not sure anything else changes the risk-reward profile sufficiently.
    "If you're riding less than 18 MPH up a 2% grade please tell people Coggan is coaching you."

  25. #25
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Let me check.
    My Bikes
    Of course.
    Posts
    11,245
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleave View Post
    However, like it or not, it was still a vastly different circumstance that what the men faced.
    I dunno about that. Some women dopers (Jeanie Longo comes to mind) made pretty decent livings from their doping. No doubt the money wasn't as good as the men but you were still chasing Olympic gold in some cases, which has always had a nice bunch of money attached to it. Vastly would be overstating from my perspective, other than the lack of a grand tour on their calendar. The money at the bottom end certainly wasn't a lot different (not much).

    Reading Dara Torres book every few pages there's one of her competitors getting caught or being in a doping program. Same as the men.

    I don't think an amnesty program is a bad idea, but it's inherently unfair to some degree. Who got caught and who didn't was so much by chance and connections. But it's got to be better than the piecemeal approach that's happening now. Which brings up:

    The best/only thing of value that Lance could provide would be a wholesale slaughter of the UCI, including a firebombing of the headquarters (metaphorically of course). Kill the head, you kill the body. The degree of corruption and money grabbing by the UCI has always astounded me, and that they have a guy in charge who was banned for life from the Olympics by his own federation is...beyond comprehension.

    Or we could start cleaning house here at home. Look at the list of names on the USAC website and you get a sore neck from shaking your head. I don't hear so good anymore but they seem to have been particularly silent as of late. My guess is it's hard to get messages out of the bunker when you're hoping none of the bombs drop on your head.

    So what's happening with Inga's letter?

    (insert crickets here)

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •