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  1. #101
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Initially, I looked at the pics of the TTT. I saw that the first pic the last rider did not have an aero helmet. Then in the last pic, all the racers had aero helmets. WTF, was there a helmet change? After reading the post, it was another rider who jumped on the back of your team.

    First, that seems odd at best and disruptive and illegal at worst. A drafting rider slightly decreases the aero drag of the rider in front.

    This is a question for our newly minted USAC ref... ShovelHD. Is it legal for dropped riders to join on the back of a different team in a championship TTT?
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  2. #102
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    3F10. No team shall take pace behind another team closer than 25 meters ahead or 2 meters to the side. He should have been DQ'd.

  3. #103
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    3F10. No team shall take pace behind another team closer than 25 meters ahead or 2 meters to the side. He should have been DQ'd.
    Does his DQ also DQ his team? Theoretically, a dropped rider could disrupt another team thus benefitting his team.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  4. #104
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    If he's #3 , I would think so. I'm not sure.

  5. #105
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    If he's #3 , I would think so. I'm not sure.
    It would make sense if he was the 3rd rider. However, it depends on how USAC defines a team.

    I know how disruptive riders hanging on the back of pace lines can be. You take your pull and are drifting back getting ready to get back on and in your peripheral vision you see another cyclist that you do not expect to be there Even if he opened up a gap, it is still a distraction considering the racer is coming off of a hard effort and must now accelerate to get back on and time it right. Anyway, it just seems wrong. If I had latitude as a ref, I would DQ the entire team or relegate them one position or assess a time penalty.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  6. #106
    Old Road Racer Cleave's Avatar
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    More details on what happened. We passed this guy on the back straight. Apparently he jumped on as we passed him. Our rookie was sitting out turns and he said that the guy actually got in front of him at one point. I remember seeing him out of the corner of my eye as he was trying to pass us between turns 3 and 4. I was thinking, "WTF?!?!"

    When we got to the front straight he passed us! (More WTF?!?!) We passed him back and then, as the photo shows he was on us after we dropped our 4th. Apparently he dropped off of us and went back to our 4th and said, "Do you want me to pull you back to your team?" Even though our 4th was a rookie, he knew enough to decline the offer.

    Apparently this guy started with the team that eventually finished 5th (about 4 minutes faster than we). He got dropped by his team less than halfway into the race.

    It amazes me how some bike racers have no clue. I've seen guys drafting on ITTs and I've seen "8-man" TTTs. In the end it didn't make enough of a difference to matter but it would have been a good lesson for him or his team if the officials had either DQed him, his team, or given his team a time penalty for cluelessness. (What paragraph is that in the rule book? )
    Thanks.
    Cleave
    "Real men wear pink."
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  7. #107
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Uosmf.

  8. #108
    Old Road Racer Cleave's Avatar
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    ^^^???
    Thanks.
    Cleave
    "Real men wear pink."
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  9. #109
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    You one stupid...

  10. #110
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    A bunch of old ladies going pretty fast in Long Beach.

    Pasadena Senior Games 2014 Photo.
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  11. #111
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    Nice suffer face.

  12. #112
    Resident Alien Racer Ex's Avatar
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    Cool pic.

  13. #113
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    That was the 40K, towards the end of the race. This was an eight woman break. Two of Ex's athletes are in this shot, Heidi (on the front), and a fat little gal on fourth wheel.
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  14. #114
    Senior Member IBOHUNT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    Nice suffer face.

  15. #115
    Senior Member IBOHUNT's Avatar
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    second wheel looks like got the head down "Crap, what did I get myself into" deal going on

  16. #116
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBOHUNT View Post
    second wheel looks like got the head down "Crap, what did I get myself into" deal going on
    There was a headwind that we picked up there, off that corner. She was probably feeling that. She was a strong one, that girl. Well, they (we) all were!
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarals View Post
    That was the 40K, towards the end of the race. This was an eight woman break. Two of Ex's athletes are in this shot, Heidi (on the front), and a fat little gal on fourth wheel.
    Don't do that. Respect yourself. And go kick whoever fed you that b.s. all your life in that balls. You are a freaking helicopter pilot who took up road racing in your sixties, which is completely rad.
    ...

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by valygrl View Post
    Don't do that. Respect yourself. And go kick whoever fed you that b.s. all your life in that balls. You are a freaking helicopter pilot who took up road racing in your sixties, which is completely rad.
    +1! Sara has her own fan club, of which I'm proud to be a member.
    Regards,
    Chuck

    Demain, on roule!

  19. #119
    Idiot Emeritus sarals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by revchuck View Post
    +1! Sara has her own fan club, of which I'm proud to be a member.
    Awww, you two....thanks!
    Racer Ex..."Don't know if the shop is under new ownership. If not feel free to shoplift stuff and break bottles in his parking lot."

  20. #120
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Here is a pic of us at the TT. Someone please feed me a dog biscuit. I am definitely sitting up and begging for one. Photo by Craig Huffman Photography.



    In fairness, I have 15 cm of seat to bar drop on my TT bike and pursuit bike and about 6 cm in this pic. However, in practice, I may have struggled with a significantly lower position. Santana uses an oversize steerer tube so I could not find a -17 or -35 degree stem locally in the time frame I had to set up this bike and race. I suspect -17 would have been much better and about right for the race.

    Helmet courtesy of Racer Ex.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  21. #121
    Senior Member shovelhd's Avatar
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    That head tube couldn't be much shorter. I think you guys look great although I can see where you'd like to be rotated more. The reach looks pretty good.

  22. #122
    Elite Rider Hermes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shovelhd View Post
    That head tube couldn't be much shorter. I think you guys look great although I can see where you'd like to be rotated more. The reach looks pretty good.
    Thanks Shovel. I need to get these Zipp clip ons that put the aerobar extension under the base bar with the elbow pads resting on the handlebar. And I need a -17 degree stem. That should provided another 3 to 4 cm of seat to bar drop which should be about right.

    Here is the course. 40K out and back, flat, elevation 5000 with crosswinds in both directions. Our average temperature was 88 degrees with a high of 92 degrees at the end.



    Below is a pic of me warming up with a couple of other people. Photo Sara S.

    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Einstein

  23. #123
    Senior Member IBOHUNT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valygrl View Post
    Don't do that. Respect yourself. And go kick whoever fed you that b.s. all your life in that balls. You are a freaking helicopter pilot who took up road racing in your sixties, which is completely rad.
    Where's the double like thingy. I just want to be on this side of the dirt in my 60's.

    Side note - I get accused of doing the same thing. I even put FOG (Fat Old Guy) on the back of my jersey using white medical tape one day.

    Quote Originally Posted by revchuck View Post
    +1! Sara has her own fan club, of which I'm proud to be a member.
    I was awarded membership as well. Might not be able to pay the dues though.

  24. #124
    Senior Member IBOHUNT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    Thanks Shovel. I need to get these Zipp clip ons that put the aerobar extension under the base bar with the elbow pads resting on the handlebar. And I need a -17 degree stem. That should provided another 3 to 4 cm of seat to bar drop which should be about right.

    Here is the course. 40K out and back, flat, elevation 5000 with crosswinds in both directions. Our average temperature was 88 degrees with a high of 92 degrees at the end.



    Below is a pic of me warming up with a couple of other people. Photo Sara S.

    Some happy folk in beautiful country. Any Mule deer?

  25. #125
    Old Road Racer Cleave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
    Here is a pic of us at the TT. Someone please feed me a dog biscuit. I am definitely sitting up and begging for one. Photo by Craig Huffman Photography.



    In fairness, I have 15 cm of seat to bar drop on my TT bike and pursuit bike and about 6 cm in this pic. However, in practice, I may have struggled with a significantly lower position. Santana uses an oversize steerer tube so I could not find a -17 or -35 degree stem locally in the time frame I had to set up this bike and race. I suspect -17 would have been much better and about right for the race.

    Helmet courtesy of Racer Ex.
    Are your pedals out of phase by 90 degrees? If so, I've never seen a tandem set up that way but I can guess at the potential advantages for doing so.
    Thanks.
    Cleave
    "Real men wear pink."
    See my cycling photos at http://www.pbase.com/cleavel/bicycling
    See my bikes at http://www.pbase.com/cleavel/mybicycles
    Visit my blog at http://cleavesblant.wordpress.com/
    Lightning Velo Cycling Club: http://www.lightningvelo.org/

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