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-   -   Age-group racing (http://www.bikeforums.net/masters-racing-all-disciplines/919418-age-group-racing.html)

Racer Ex 11-12-13 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creakyknees (Post 16241358)
Age-group racing is a cop-out. Real racers race their category.

Inside joke. He's sending a soft ball over to me.

When I was in Creaks redneck 'o the woods there was a push by some people to get the 1/2 masters out of master' races. A fair bit of it was pointed at me. When I pointed out that I would just downgrade and sandbag my category like a whole bunch of people were doing, and that the same masters who were whining about the 1/2 masters could go race THEIR cat the crickets could be heard for miles. Although I think one guy was dumb enough to say how he hated racing with a bunch of 20-somethings.

Oh, but for ME it's OK?

Some of the promoters were buying into it until I crunched some numbers and pointed out that while the 1/2 guys were only 15% of the fields, over the year they were 35% of the entry fees and raced 3 to 5 times as much as the Cat 3-5 crowd.

Racer Ex 11-12-13 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allegheny Jet (Post 16241589)
At Track Nats I was the only one on the podium without some kind of colors on their sleeves.

You could fix that if you didn't go bottom fishing for the close out tri jerseys.

Allegheny Jet 11-12-13 07:45 PM

I'm feeling bullied around here.:cry:

Racer Ex 11-12-13 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allegheny Jet (Post 16241808)
I'm feeling bullied around here.:cry:

Send a guy a few racist and profanity laced texts threatening him and his family and suddenly they get all whiney.

Hey, maybe you should just go ****** *** * *** * ** * * or take a**** ** * * ************ *** ** ** ** ** gerbil.

valygrl 11-12-13 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racer Ex (Post 16241821)
Send a guy a few racist and profanity laced texts threatening him and his family and suddenly they get all whiney.

Hey, maybe you should just go ****** *** * *** * ** * * or take a**** ** * * ************ *** ** ** ** ** gerbil.

I'd like to buy a vowel.

Hermes 11-12-13 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valygrl (Post 16241849)
I'd like to buy a vowel.

Like a lot.

Racer Ex 11-12-13 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valygrl (Post 16241849)
I'd like to buy a vowel.

Paypal accepted.

Creakyknees 11-13-13 11:18 AM

Ex is right, as always... it was a clunky joke... apologies to anyone who was forced to untangle panties.

Creakyknees 11-13-13 11:20 AM

in my defense: It's November. If I don't troll you guys, that means I have to take it out on the recumbent forum and that's just not as satisfying.

Creakyknees 11-13-13 11:22 AM

And for the record: I'm a 3 and on crit days I usually race both cat and age. And get my ass kicked in both.

caloso 11-13-13 12:24 PM

Yeah, I'm at the sweet spot where I can get thrashed by a junior in the morning and his dad in the afternoon.

revchuck 11-13-13 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caloso (Post 16243647)
Yeah, I'm at the sweet spot where I can get thrashed by a junior in the morning and his dad in the afternoon.

You're nothing if not consistent. :)

Allegheny Jet 11-13-13 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caloso (Post 16243647)
Yeah, I'm at the sweet spot where I can get thrashed by a junior in the morning and his dad in the afternoon.

:)

jbenkert111 11-13-13 09:13 PM

Hey guys (and gals), I'm the guy. who started this thread and have really enjoyed it. I have really learned a lot from ya'll. My main reason in asking about age-groups was not to see how many medals I could collect, but to be able to gage my progress against my PEERs. It doesn't look like a movement is going to get started (surprise:-)), so what You all have inspired me to do is this. I will continue to use my low to mid priced equipment, train as hard as I can, and just do the best I can. With the ultimate goal of being ranked as high as I can on the USA Cycling website's 5 year age groups In the different disciplines. I plan to race TT's on the roathd and MTB's, and all disciplines in MTB's.

By the way I would like to hear your opinions on this. Sara has expresses some reservations (lack of satisfaction) about racing when there was lack of of competition. I understand that to an extent, but how about this. In running, when someone in your age group beats you by a couple of seconds, about the only thing you can do is train harder, but in biking, although you are the main factor, buying a better and more expensive bike or equipment can make a difference. Where does it end and when is enough, enough?

Hermes 11-13-13 09:26 PM

When you run out of money.

jbenkert111 11-13-13 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermes (Post 16245062)
When you run out of money.

That's what I was afraid of. Living on retired military pay I guess I keep my low end gear and train extra hard.

caloso 11-13-13 10:22 PM

Hermes is right, but isn't it more a question of diminishing returns? And it seems to me you reach those diminishing returns sooner in some disciplines than others. In crits and mass start track events it seems like the equipment has a lot less bearing on results than time trialling, where you can literally buy speed up to a certain point.

jbenkert111 11-13-13 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caloso (Post 16245170)
Hermes is right, but isn't it more a question of diminishing returns? And it seems to me you reach those diminishing returns sooner in some disciplines than others. In crits and mass start track events it seems like the equipment has a lot less bearing on results than time trialling, where you can literally buy speed up to a certain point.


Makes sense Hermes. Speaking from NO experience (have only done a few Road TT's) TT's would seem to benefit most from equipment, but also a rider with strong aerobic endurance and a good aero position. However, crits and road races would seem to benefit most from rider skills and sprint (30 seconds) speed coupled with experience.

sarals 11-14-13 12:05 AM

Don't listen to Sara, she likes to complain. She's AJ's partner in feeling bullied, too. That's because she likes it (and asks for it).

:p

;)

shovelhd 11-14-13 05:24 AM

I race primarily criteriums and I ride the best equipment I can afford. If you are consistently losing races by half a wheel then you can start focusing on equipment. Until then, it's all about the input, baby.

revchuck 11-14-13 05:39 AM

John - I'm also living on retired military pay, so I know what you mean! From what I've read - I don't have a TT bike - fit is the big thing for TTs. If your Fuji fits and is in good shape, all you need to add is the sweat equity. ;)

For me, the hardest thing is racing against guys our age who've been doing this since they were kids. 40 years of racing experience and fitness is tough to overcome. I keep at it because I can see how far I've come from where I started. A good thing is the younger guys, who are almost as studly as we were at their age, seeing us going at it tooth and nail, and recognizing that while you have to get old, you don't have to get fat and out of shape. You've probably already seen that in your running.

Cleave 11-14-13 09:30 AM

Masters racing is full of high-end equipment. Similar to what shovelhd said, you still have to pedal it.

sarals 11-14-13 09:52 AM

Sweat equity. I race against young women who could make a Klein fly. It's not the bike, it's the legs (for the most part).

Racer Ex 11-14-13 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caloso (Post 16245170)
it seems like the equipment has a lot less bearing on results than time trialling, where you can literally buy speed up to a certain point.

Common fallacy. There's zero guarantee that, other than buying better wheels than you have (provided you know that this is actually the case) you wallet is going to bring you a faster time. There are plenty of people I've seen and worked with that had better CdA and power numbers in the drops on their road bike than they did with their initial setup on their TT bikes.

Even assuming a good position, you can see big differentiations putting different things on different people, the most glaring being helmets where the wrong aero helmet might be 10w worse than a road helmet.

The other thing that gets lost on most people is that all the numbers you read in the magazines and tests from the wind tunnel are at an assumed 30 MPH. Take a look at any local TT result and you'll see (unless the course has a tailwind or is mostly downhill) very few people hitting that number.

The time/power savings go down exponentially as you go slower, so if you're a 25 MPH person, you don't lose 20% of the savings, you lose more like 50%. That makes some "bought speed" pretty worthless.

A fair bit of this applies to road/crit racing as well. You save a few watts buying wheels, I save more ducking my head in the wind and hiding really well in the pack. Or sticking you subtly in the wind in a break.

For equipment to really matter you need to be at the pointy end of the stick, and you need to use it to your advantage.

AzTallRider 11-14-13 11:55 AM

You also see a lot of discouraged racers after failed attempts to buy speed. A teammate went whole hog on TT's, up to and including wind tunnel testing. Custom frame, uber wheels, etc. Then, still not doing well, he tried switching coaches. Same results. He isn't racing now. To everyone but him, it was clear that he was inconsistent in his training, and didn't have the drive to take his effort to the level many people do. He has a "shallow pain-cave", something I understand because mine isn't nearly as deep as many people I know, and several of the people here on the forum. Being able to totally bury yourself for a long time really matters. We miss the guy, partly because he also set up a big pop-up, with a generator driven fan to keep us all cool. The smaller TT group lived better on race day than the larger crit contingent, which gets the official team tent.

We have another guy, an absolute monster power wise (my nickname for him is "Incrdible Hulk"), who also is constantly cycling through cycling gear. We love that, because he sells his stuff to us at ridiculously low prices. He has the money to play that game, enjoys it, so that's what he does. He even has a separate garage for his bikes, of which there are a great many. But he could radically improve his results by just racing smarter, rather than relying on brute power. Has a monster sprint, but will blow himself out before the end of the race. Great guy, and I love him to death. He does pretty well in the TT's.

I buy the best gear I can, but I'm under no illusion it will significantly change my results. For TT's, it's no where near what a few adjustments under expert guidance can do.


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