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Thread: Weight weinies

  1. #1
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    Why do so many mountain bikers put so much emphasis on the weight of their bicycle? Going to the extent of having a gram scale seems like the person is unsure of their capabilities. Sure, it's nice to have a bike around 21 pounds. But if you think weighing each component, and chosing the one that's lightest, don't you think you could be sacrificing structural integrity, and risking building a safer mountain bike?

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    Throw the stick!!!! LowCel's Avatar
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    It depends on the purpose of the bike. It also depends on how much that person has done to prepare for the upcoming race season. If that person has trained on a daily basis and has lost 50 pounds then it seems as if that person deserves to have a light bike. It also seems that as long as the person is able to spend money on the bike in order to make it lighter without taking food off the table it seems like you should just live and let live.

    I assume that you are writing about me since I haven't seen too many other people on the mountain bike portion of this site showing new parts with the weights. I enjoy trying to make by bike as light as possible while still keeping it reliable. If that makes me (or anyone else) happy what is the problem with it?

    Please research the parts that I have used. Once you find that they are unsafe for xc use please let me know. Until then don't assume that just because parts are light that they are not reliable.

    Cheap, Light, Reliable - Pick any two.
    I may be fat but I'm slow enough to make up for it.

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    Throw the stick!!!! LowCel's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, could you please explain to me how wanting a light bike translates to being unsure of my capabilities?

    Just so you know the majority of the best cross country riders in the world are weight weenies. I guess they are unsure of their capabilities as well.
    I may be fat but I'm slow enough to make up for it.

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    Throw the stick!!!! LowCel's Avatar
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    It always amazes me how much nonsense you are able to post ChroMo2. Just doing a quick scan of your previous posts lets everyone know exactly how much you actually know about this sport. I know that you say that you are "experienced". Unfortunately your posts don't seem to agree with that statement.

    I'm just trying to figure out which one of your posts have been the most informative.

    Could it be.....
    .
    what kinda bikers ride cannondales?
    .
    or could it be one of your powerful posts from this thread......
    .
    These are two of my favorites from that thread.
    .
    in order of performance gains it's the frame first! handlebar grips, gloves, pedals, crank, wheels, rear derailler, cassette, chain, front derailler, brake pads, handlebars, waterbottle.
    also the stem is very important it decides how agressive you ride.
    .
    I think one of the best responses to your posts in the past was by never. I don't think I could get it right so I am going to have to quote him on this one.
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by never
    Are you really being serious when you make your posts?
    I may be fat but I'm slow enough to make up for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LowCel
    It always amazes me how much nonsense you are able to post ChroMo2. Just doing a quick scan of your previous posts lets everyone know exactly how much you actually know about this sport. I know that you say that you are "experienced". Unfortunately your posts don't seem to agree with that statement.

    I'm just trying to figure out which one of your posts have been the most informative.

    Could it be.....
    .
    what kinda bikers ride cannondales?
    .
    or could it be one of your powerful posts from this thread......
    .
    These are two of my favorites from that thread.
    .


    .
    I think one of the best responses to your posts in the past was by never. I don't think I could get it right so I am going to have to quote him on this one.
    .
    I appreciate your first response, it made more sense than your other two. I'm a former street racer, and have built street racing motors by my own specifications from the studying that i have done on aftermarket applications. I've seen my designs on motors that were duplicated in HOT ROD magazine, after I applied specicific components. I'm also a trained technician and worked on military vehices in Ft. Carson Colorado. I've raced motorcycles and snowmobiles and have performed the work to make them outperform standard factory designs. If your "biffed" by my posts it's because i've actually put mysellf in the position to test vehicles that were built with aftermarket parts and i've actually machined parts that have never been seen before to use them in racing applications, and I test them, pushing the limits of exhibitionism sport riding. So basically buiding a racing bicycle is very common for me, and understanding 99% of the componentry to it's applications is second nature. I've seen a 19 pound mountain bike with fiberglass spokes. Unfortunatey the price you have to pay for that is the spokes break easily no matter how much you weigh. Would you wanna use fiberglass spokes in competition? They weigh a lot less! I wouldn't. I use Control tech seatposts. I own two of them. They don't make them anymore, it's too bad, they were of superior design. I use Selle Italia Flite saddles with titanium rails. I tried the tubular titanium instead of the solid rails. I broke a rail on a tubular seat. The seat was lighter because of it's design. Selle Italia offered to replace the rail. I thanked them and just decided to buy a new one. So maybe people can learn that if you sit around and weigh your components, your not always going to help yourself, and you might end up with a bike that's going to break. My bike weighs about 24 pounds and it does a far superior job than most hardtails. I rely on physical performance. I think it would be fun to see people post their bikes and tell us how much their bikes weigh.

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    Senior Member swifferman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChroMo2
    I appreciate your first response, it made more sense than your other two. I'm a former street racer, and have built street racing motors by my own specifications from the studying that i have done on aftermarket applications. I've seen my designs on motors that were duplicated in HOT ROD magazine, after I applied specicific components. I'm also a trained technician and worked on military vehices in Ft. Carson Colorado. I've raced motorcycles and snowmobiles and have performed the work to make them outperform standard factory designs. If your "biffed" by my posts it's because i've actually put mysellf in the position to test vehicles that were built with aftermarket parts and i've actually machined parts that have never been seen before to use them in racing applications, and I test them, pushing the limits of exhibitionism sport riding. So basically buiding a racing bicycle is very common for me, and understanding 99% of the componentry to it's applications is second nature. I've seen a 19 pound mountain bike with fiberglass spokes. Unfortunatey the price you have to pay for that is the spokes break easily no matter how much you weigh. Would you wanna use fiberglass spokes in competition? They weigh a lot less! I wouldn't. I use Control tech seatposts. I own two of them. They don't make them anymore, it's too bad, they were of superior design. I use Selle Italia Flite saddles with titanium rails. I tried the tubular titanium instead of the solid rails. I broke a rail on a tubular seat. The seat was lighter because of it's design. Selle Italia offered to replace the rail. I thanked them and just decided to buy a new one. So maybe people can learn that if you sit around and weigh your components, your not always going to help yourself, and you might end up with a bike that's going to break. My bike weighs about 24 pounds and it does a far superior job than most hardtails. I rely on physical performance. I think it would be fun to see people post their bikes and tell us how much their bikes weigh.

    Someone tell Lance Armstrong to get off his 16 lb Trek, it's unsafe! :O:O:O

    So is the point of this thread to scoff at those who care what their bike weighs? Seems a little ridiculous to me.

    If an XC racer has a 23 lb. bike and another who has a 21 lb. bike race, and both have equal abilities, who will win? The one with the lighter bike. I suppose if you don't want to win, then there's no point in being a weight weenie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swifferman
    Someone tell Lance Armstrong to get off his 16 lb Trek, it's unsafe! :O:O:O

    So is the point of this thread to scoff at those who care what their bike weighs? Seems a little ridiculous to me.

    If an XC racer has a 23 lb. bike and another who has a 21 lb. bike race, and both have equal abilities, who will win? The one with the lighter bike. I suppose if you don't want to win, then there's no point in being a weight weenie.
    Lance Armstrong doesnt ride a mountain bike. get real

  8. #8
    Throw the stick!!!! LowCel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChroMo2
    Lance Armstrong doesnt ride a mountain bike. get real
    Once again you have proven that you speak of things you know nothing about. Do a search, you will find that he has actually won some mountain bike races.

    I may be fat but I'm slow enough to make up for it.

  9. #9
    Throw the stick!!!! LowCel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChroMo2
    I appreciate your first response, it made more sense than your other two. I'm a former street racer, and have built street racing motors by my own specifications from the studying that i have done on aftermarket applications. I've seen my designs on motors that were duplicated in HOT ROD magazine, after I applied specicific components. I'm also a trained technician and worked on military vehices in Ft. Carson Colorado. I've raced motorcycles and snowmobiles and have performed the work to make them outperform standard factory designs. If your "biffed" by my posts it's because i've actually put mysellf in the position to test vehicles that were built with aftermarket parts and i've actually machined parts that have never been seen before to use them in racing applications, and I test them, pushing the limits of exhibitionism sport riding. So basically buiding a racing bicycle is very common for me, and understanding 99% of the componentry to it's applications is second nature. I've seen a 19 pound mountain bike with fiberglass spokes. Unfortunatey the price you have to pay for that is the spokes break easily no matter how much you weigh. Would you wanna use fiberglass spokes in competition? They weigh a lot less! I wouldn't. I use Control tech seatposts. I own two of them. They don't make them anymore, it's too bad, they were of superior design. I use Selle Italia Flite saddles with titanium rails. I tried the tubular titanium instead of the solid rails. I broke a rail on a tubular seat. The seat was lighter because of it's design. Selle Italia offered to replace the rail. I thanked them and just decided to buy a new one. So maybe people can learn that if you sit around and weigh your components, your not always going to help yourself, and you might end up with a bike that's going to break. My bike weighs about 24 pounds and it does a far superior job than most hardtails. I rely on physical performance. I think it would be fun to see people post their bikes and tell us how much their bikes weigh.
    WOW, I guess all that makes you an expert when it comes to bikes.
    I may be fat but I'm slow enough to make up for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LowCel
    WOW, I guess all that makes you an expert when it comes to bikes.
    Thank you! it's O.K. to realize that some people making posts do have the experience and education

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    Throw the stick!!!! LowCel's Avatar
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    Like I told you when I responded to yet another one of your enlightening pm's. You are a legend in your own mind.
    I may be fat but I'm slow enough to make up for it.

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    Senior Member swifferman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChroMo2
    Lance Armstrong doesnt ride a mountain bike. get real

    Pwned.

    I don't know any world-class XC racers so I just used the world's most famous roadie. The exact same thing applies to them too.

    Get real.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChroMo2
    Why do so many mountain bikers put so much emphasis on the weight of their bicycle?
    Mostly because we have to pedal them everywhere. When choosing between two components of roughly equal performance, weight matters. As someone with your background should understand (I'm kinda surprised you had to ask, actually) a cyclist puts out so little horsepower that small changes in both sprung and unsprung weight matter very much. Especially in racing situations.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChroMo2
    Going to the extent of having a gram scale seems like the person is unsure of their capabilities.
    No, only unsure of manufacturer's claimed weights, and their ability to guess at the weight of something by just holding it. Once again, this seems so simple as to be obvious, but for you it apparently wasn't. I'm surprised at your questioning the need for accuracy and precision, and for questioning the need for an advantage in a competition situation.


    Quote Originally Posted by ChroMo2
    Sure, it's nice to have a bike around 21 pounds. But if you think weighing each component, and chosing the one that's lightest, don't you think you could be sacrificing structural integrity, and risking building a safer mountain bike?
    Yes. With careful reading you will discover that most cyclists don't choose based on weight alone. We pick an application (like xc racing bar for a 175lb rider) and from among the qualified parts weight is one consideration in which bar we eventually buy. My all-mountain ride, at 30lbs, is not the lightest thing out there, but the parts are all about as light as they could be without me being worried that 4' drops would start to break things. (except for the hubs -coulda saved a pound by spending another $200, but I couldn't swing it).

    So, if we're not sacrificing structural integrity based on our intended use, you will find that a lighter mountain bike is safer. Easier to maneuver, easier to stop, easier to accelerate and bunny hop out of situations. You'll be less fatigued riding it, which will help to avoid crashes.

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    mntbikeracer mntbikeracer's Avatar
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    Wow the weather must be crappy!

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    it's easy to namedrop and post pictures of things that you think are cool. That's obvious, by the name that bikers so lovingly like to drop. Even a picture of our American Hero! But there was always the man who created the bike, and there's always gonna be the next guy to build the better one. But certainly you can't beleive that the weight of the components or even the bike, is going to dictate its performance?

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    Throw the stick!!!! LowCel's Avatar
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    How is it possible for someone to type so much yet say so little?
    I may be fat but I'm slow enough to make up for it.

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    Caustic Soccer Mom apclassic9's Avatar
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    I've been watching MTB races for 6 years now, and for some reason, I've never seen a Clydesdale (200 pounds+) sport rider win the overall in the Sport class. Ya think it might be the weight?

    My kid started XC racing with a 24" Specialized kid's MTB, which, at the time, weighed about as much as he did... Once he was upgraded to Hardrock Comp, he shaved at least 20 minutes off his average race time. These days he's riding a way cooler - and lighter - bike... and he's looking forward to passing LowCel

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    Throw the stick!!!! LowCel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apclassic9
    I've been watching MTB races for 6 years now, and for some reason, I've never seen a Clydesdale (200 pounds+) sport rider win the overall in the Sport class. Ya think it might be the weight?

    My kid started XC racing with a 24" Specialized kid's MTB, which, at the time, weighed about as much as he did... Once he was upgraded to Hardrock Comp, he shaved at least 20 minutes off his average race time. These days he's riding a way cooler - and lighter - bike... and he's looking forward to passing LowCel
    Once he gets what you told me about (no details since I don't know if he reads this forum or not) I'm sure he will have no trouble passing me. I'm sure his goals are set much higher than just beating someone like me anyway.

    I'm looking forward to seeing how fast he is next year and for years to come. I'm sure he will be one of the fastest in the series before all is said and done. One of the benefits of being an old man is that I will at least have an excuse when the young 'un beats me.
    I may be fat but I'm slow enough to make up for it.

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    Caustic Soccer Mom apclassic9's Avatar
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    Ended up getting him an IronHorse Triumph - it weighs WAY more than his Scalpel, but I figure it's better training to haul the extra weight around... besides, I didn't want it to fall apart on the 1st mile on the dirt road before he even gets to the hardtop! I'm also hoping he'll prefer it to his mountain board (what ever possessed me??)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChroMo2
    it's easy to namedrop and post pictures of things that you think are cool. That's obvious, by the name that bikers so lovingly like to drop. Even a picture of our American Hero! But there was always the man who created the bike, and there's always gonna be the next guy to build the better one. But certainly you can't beleive that the weight of the components or even the bike, is going to dictate its performance?

    I didn't know it was possible for anyone over the age of 13 to have a post this incoherent.

  21. #21
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    Do you think "weight weinies" go good with Hormel Chili?

  22. #22
    bike rider jimmythefly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChroMo2
    it's easy to namedrop and post pictures of things that you think are cool. That's obvious, by the name that bikers so lovingly like to drop. Even a picture of our American Hero! But there was always the man who created the bike, and there's always gonna be the next guy to build the better one. But certainly you can't beleive that the weight of the components or even the bike, is going to dictate its performance?
    I can and do. Acceleration=force/mass. Less mass means more acceleration. Moreacceleration is a performance characteristic. That's it. I have answered your questions, and you have not indicated that you think my specific answers were wrong. Unless you want to discuss things coherently I promise not to get drawn into another post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmythefly
    I can and do. Acceleration=force/mass. Less mass means more acceleration. Moreacceleration is a performance characteristic. That's it. I have answered your questions, and you have not indicated that you think my specific answers were wrong. Unless you want to discuss things coherently I promise not to get drawn into another post.
    what's wrong with you "weight weenies"? You dont factor in the most critical part! Dont be surprised that the main component in any type of racing is the man making the machine work at its peak efficiency.

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    i think most everyone will agree with me on this. when you start out racing a light bike is going to help you, but not make you the best. when you have been racing for a while and you are good, real good. a light bike is going to make you better.

    that is why people buy/build light xc bikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChroMo2
    Why do so many mountain bikers put so much emphasis on the weight of their bicycle? Going to the extent of having a gram scale seems like the person is unsure of their capabilities. Sure, it's nice to have a bike around 21 pounds. But if you think weighing each component, and chosing the one that's lightest, don't you think you could be sacrificing structural integrity, and risking building a safer mountain bike?
    I have a gram scale and have used it considerably. Having a light bike only complements my capabilities and maximizes my performance. I can't afford the lightest parts and at times settle for a cheaper aftermarket part over the name brand piece. I have never had a failure due to shaving weight.Also a large part of mountain bike racing is the belief in your self, many times I have pushed the other guy just hard enough to have him doubt himself and when that happens I have defeated him.If you beleive you have a fast bike this will help a great deal.eliminating the weight on the bike takes that variable away from the equation. Total confidence in you and your ride brings the best performance. That's why
    I'm a wieght weenie. and oddly enough it works.

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