i really want to know why I'm supposed to like the avid 5's more than the nearly identical promax????(no model name). I have held them side by side and can see no real difference. Same height, width, length weight is nothing I can distinguish. Besides the cool logo, why should I prefer the Avids. I am a little confused. For the most part I can see a quality difference in "good" products vs. generic cheapo items. i.e. payless shoes wear out MUCH faster than say, ADIDAS or New Balance. What gives? Also when is a trek not a Trek? If I take a steel framed 820 and strip the decals, change all the components to better ones, is it still a crappy trek 820? Assume one would do that simply because they could instead of an imediate answer of why not just buy a rockhopper? Just curious.