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Old 06-09-05, 08:01 AM   #1
sth
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What brand/model of disc brakes?

I am going to outfit a new road/tour/commuter frame with hydraulic discs and am trying to decide what brand/model of disc brakes. The choices are Shimano LX or XT, Hayes 9, or Avid 5. I am leaning to the LX set up. Stopping power is probably equal for all so it is more an issue of reliability, easy or use and quality. I think the XT is probably costly overkill and I have heard that the 9's are maybe loosing a little quality control. Dont know much about the Avids and they not a strong contender.

Does the mountain bike community have any good ideas?

thank

sth
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Old 06-09-05, 09:09 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sth
I am going to outfit a new road/tour/commuter frame with hydraulic discs and am trying to decide what brand/model of disc brakes. The choices are Shimano LX or XT, Hayes 9, or Avid 5. I am leaning to the LX set up. Stopping power is probably equal for all so it is more an issue of reliability, easy or use and quality. I think the XT is probably costly overkill and I have heard that the 9's are maybe loosing a little quality control. Dont know much about the Avids and they not a strong contender.

Does the mountain bike community have any good ideas?

thank

sth
I heard the Avid Juicy 5s are great, I think Maelstrom here runs them on one of his bikes.
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Old 06-09-05, 09:22 AM   #3
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The XT's or Avid Juicy fives would be an excellent choice. XT's do have the edge in my opinion in that they use mineral oil vs. DOT4 brake fluid.
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Old 06-09-05, 10:06 AM   #4
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Out of those, I would pick the Juicy 5s. They are excellent brakes.

I love hope brakes though. Hope M4s have excellent modulation and one finger endo power.
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Old 06-09-05, 11:03 AM   #5
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Is there a reason you are looking at hydraulics for your commuter instead of mechanical discs? I don't know if you would be able to utilize all the improvements over mechs hydraulics have to offer. Obviously these benefits come at a cost and I don't know if a commuter/tourer would want these tradeoffs.
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Old 06-09-05, 12:32 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by seely
The XT's or Avid Juicy fives would be an excellent choice. XT's do have the edge in my opinion in that they use mineral oil vs. DOT4 brake fluid.
why is mineral oil a better choice than DOT4 fluid?
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Old 06-09-05, 12:48 PM   #7
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Some people have environmental concerns
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Old 06-09-05, 12:53 PM   #8
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from the shimano website
"

All Shimano hydraulic disc brakes use natural mineral oil. This oil is friendly to the environment, non-toxic and non-corrosive. This oil is the ideal media for bicycle disc brake systems.
"
I remember hearing that mineral oil is less prone to contamination, but I might be making that up. It also says that you should only use the shimano branded oil, so any price advantage is gone.

Personaly I love my avid bb5 mechs. I really don't see any advantage to using hydro for a commuter bike.
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Old 06-09-05, 02:28 PM   #9
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On a commuter I'd want Avid BB7's, $70 a wheel and much easier to deal with in the field.
http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/126...rake-160mm.htm
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Old 06-09-05, 10:59 PM   #10
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Thanks all for your input. The main reason for going with discs on a commuter/tourer or any bike for me is rim wear. Winter riding on the rainy west coast eats rims with "v" brakes for breakfast. I am tired of replacing rims with worn out sides. I want to set up a pair nice rims on the new ride and want them to last for a while. Hydraulics? Well better feel, stronger, no cable stretch, and we all have to admit...wow factor. However after reading some owner reviews on another site, I am re-thinking the hydraulic aspect. Lots of issues around mess, maintenance, cost, set up etc. Maybe the Avid BB7 is a good option.

Any more thoughts on these?

As for mineral oil vs DOT fluid: DOT is vehicle fluid and meant for very high heat and pressure, nothing a bike will ever face. It is messy, toxic, hydroscopic (absorbs moisture out of the air - that large container you buy and use a few ml out of very year or two could well be contaminated by the next time you use it and water is corrosive in the system) and it destroys paint if it dribbles and is not cleaned up quickly.

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Old 06-10-05, 12:38 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by sth
Maybe the Avid BB7 is a good option.

Any more thoughts on these?
They're all my 265# butt needs to go trail riding around here and when set up well I'd trust them to be more than adequate for even a Minnesota winter. (I haven't lived in FL ALL my life)

Pair them up with a set of Dry Cables and you won't have to worry about cable contamination.

With replacement rotors starting at $17 and pads at $13 you can't go wrong
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Old 06-10-05, 11:09 AM   #12
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I have Shimano hydraulics but if I were shopping would go with Avid mechanicals. Simple is good.
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Old 06-11-05, 10:22 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiyn
They're all my 265# butt needs to go trail riding around here and when set up well I'd trust them to be more than adequate for even a Minnesota winter. (I haven't lived in FL ALL my life)

Pair them up with a set of Dry Cables and you won't have to worry about cable contamination.

With replacement rotors starting at $17 and pads at $13 you can't go wrong
I am leaning toward the BB7s. Everything I read, on this forum and elsewhere, seems positive about them. A concern I have with them, and maybe it is more a "looks" issues, is cable routing for the rear. The Marinoni frame i am likely to buy has the rear two hole bracket mounted away from the seat stay, pointing straight up, on its own. Presumably this is for easier rack mounting on a touring frame. The Avid hydraulic hoses use a small banjo fitting at the caliper body allowing the hose to leave the caliper at any angle. The BB7 cable leaves the body straight up. To avoid a kink would require a relatively large arc back to the frame. To me, this leaves it vulnerable to getting caught up on something, and it doesnt look good. Am I reading too much into this??

Also, what are good hubs? I was planning to go with XT's but it seems they only work with their dumb a** proprietary center lock (for 36 hole hubs) which eliminates the competitors brakes. This will be a commuter/tourer/fitness bike so tank strong is less impotant than quality bearing surfaces and good sealing.

Thx,

sth
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Old 06-11-05, 10:31 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sth
Also, what are good hubs? I was planning to go with XT's but it seems they only work with their dumb a** proprietary center lock (for 36 hole hubs) which eliminates the competitors brakes. This will be a commuter/tourer/fitness bike so tank strong is less impotant than quality bearing surfaces and good sealing.

Thx,

sth
Actually I, and other people on this board, who do not like shimano, like the centerlock mount. It uses a lockring that is the same as the one for a cassette, so the tool is pretty common. It also gets the rotor perfectly round, as opposed to the play you have when you use bolts.

The XT hub still does come in six-bolt, so if you really want that hub, go for it.
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/produ...M756+Hubs.aspx
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Old 06-11-05, 11:07 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Dirtbike
Actually I, and other people on this board, who do not like shimano, like the centerlock mount. It uses a lockring that is the same as the one for a cassette, so the tool is pretty common. It also gets the rotor perfectly round, as opposed to the play you have when you use bolts.

The XT hub still does come in six-bolt, so if you really want that hub, go for it.
http://www.jensonusa.com/store/produ...M756+Hubs.aspx
I have no issues with the center lock, anything Shimano does, they do right. Top quality stuff. I just dont like companies that make stuff that is so unique it cant be mix and matched. No other brake systems (that I have seen) use the c/l. All are 6 bolt. Shimano does offer 6 bolt XT hubs but only in a 32 hole version and I am going to use 36. Maybe that will change but for now I think 36 is best for what will use the bike for.

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Old 06-11-05, 11:11 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sth
I am going to outfit a new road/tour/commuter frame with hydraulic discs and am trying to decide what brand/model of disc brakes. The choices are Shimano LX or XT, Hayes 9, or Avid 5. I am leaning to the LX set up. Stopping power is probably equal for all so it is more an issue of reliability, easy or use and quality. I think the XT is probably costly overkill and I have heard that the 9's are maybe loosing a little quality control. Dont know much about the Avids and they not a strong contender.

Does the mountain bike community have any good ideas?

thank

sth
Just get any brakes and HOPE for the best
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Old 06-11-05, 11:36 AM   #17
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Well there are adapters that can be had to adapt the CL to a 6 bolt... if that helps.
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Old 06-11-05, 03:20 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sth
I am going to outfit a new road/tour/commuter frame with hydraulic discs and am trying to decide what brand/model of disc brakes. The choices are Shimano LX or XT, Hayes 9, or Avid 5. I am leaning to the LX set up. Stopping power is probably equal for all so it is more an issue of reliability, easy or use and quality. I think the XT is probably costly overkill and I have heard that the 9's are maybe loosing a little quality control. Dont know much about the Avids and they not a strong contender.

Does the mountain bike community have any good ideas?

thank

sth
Are you thinking about using a flat handlebar? I've never seen a hydraulic disc system with brake levers for road/drop handlebars, but maybe there is one. Does anyone know?
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Old 06-11-05, 07:16 PM   #19
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Are you thinking about using a flat handlebar? I've never seen a hydraulic disc system with brake levers for road/drop handlebars, but maybe there is one. Does anyone know?
Yes, a flat bar. Any drop bar bike that is equipped with disc brakes uses mechanicl style. No hydro levers for these bars.

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Old 06-14-05, 12:06 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sth
The Marinoni frame i am likely to buy has the rear two hole bracket mounted away from the seat stay, pointing straight up, on its own. Presumably this is for easier rack mounting on a touring frame.
As near as I can figure it you're correct
Quote:
Originally Posted by sth
To avoid a kink would require a relatively large arc back to the frame. To me, this leaves it vulnerable to getting caught up on something, and it doesnt look good. Am I reading too much into this??
Yes and no. The cable could be secured to the rack. However I went to the Marinoni site to snoop around and came up with this It relys on a device called a Travel Agent used as a pulley to direct the cable through the 90 degree bend
In theory this should allow you to route the cable as shown in the diagram
Quote:
Originally Posted by sth

Also, what are good hubs? I was planning to go with XT's but it seems they only work with their dumb a** proprietary center lock (for 36 hole hubs) which eliminates the competitors brakes. This will be a commuter/tourer/fitness bike so tank strong is less impotant than quality bearing surfaces and good sealing.
I've found the 32 hole 6 bolt XT's work quite well I also do like the Centerlock design, but I hate the riveted rotors they came out with. I'd rather get this http://www.mbaction.com/detail.asp?id=1163 in order to use normal rotors
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Old 06-14-05, 11:42 AM   #21
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How much do you want to spend on hubs?

A friend and I just did a bit of research for his first wheel build, and he went with Hope hubs. They're pretty sexy, and seemed the best value.

Back to the brakes: I've got Avid BB, with 203mm rotors on my XC rig. I could've gone with smaller rotors (these stop me plenty fast), but in rain, on muddy trails, I still slow and stop as desired. For a commuter, I might suggest Avid's road BB (though I've not had experience with 'em). They're designed for shorter travel levers. The TravelAgent worked pretty well on a commuter I had that had road levers to V-brakes, but if you're starting from scratch and can build it right...
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