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Old 06-13-05, 04:37 PM   #1
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Truing stands.

I know I've been debating this for a while, and trying to find at-home inventions on my own time to cross out the need for a truing stand, but anymore it just seems more sensible to get one... mostly because my parents, girlfriend, and brothers have all started riding, and on three of the bikes the brakes jump at a certain point in the rim, indicating a slight bend. Instead of taking them to the bike shop, where those guys didn't tru my wheel right the first time, I'd rather just use that money for a stand and do it myself.

I'm not sure what to look for though. Is there certain stands I should look at? Maybe particular features? The price range of these two truing stands is IDEAL for me, so if you folks have any opinions off of these two stands I'd appreciate it.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...goods&v=glance

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...goods&v=glance

I was kind of thinking about going with the 49 dollar one, because they had mentioned something about it being self centering, so no dish tool is needed. The 54 dollar one's description is so short and blunt it's not really saying much about the product.

What do you folks think?
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Old 06-13-05, 06:54 PM   #2
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On the verge of clicking "buy" for the 2nd link posted above (49 dollar option). Just not sure if I should wait for opinions or take a dive.
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Old 06-13-05, 07:46 PM   #3
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I don't know what more you can ask of a truing stand other than hold the wheel and provide some adjustable bearing to base the trueness of the wheel against, oh and not fall over. so I would say if it fits that criteria go for it. I would suspect that most would fit those listings the cheaper ones just won't last as long.

:edit: the first one looks of better quality to me though.
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Old 06-13-05, 08:36 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alcahueteria
I don't know what more you can ask of a truing stand other than hold the wheel and provide some adjustable bearing to base the trueness of the wheel against, oh and not fall over. so I would say if it fits that criteria go for it. I would suspect that most would fit those listings the cheaper ones just won't last as long.

:edit: the first one looks of better quality to me though.
I thought the first one looked a little better too, but the stinger with me is the second one (49 dollar silver one) says it has no need for a dishing tool due to it's design... The first one (54 dollar black one) says nothing.

*unsure*
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Old 06-13-05, 09:11 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roasted
I thought the first one looked a little better too, but the stinger with me is the second one (49 dollar silver one) says it has no need for a dishing tool due to it's design... The first one (54 dollar black one) says nothing.

*unsure*
The first one would probably be more stable. You don't need a dishing tool with any truing stand. All you need to do is to turn the wheel around to check for dish. That said, I'd rather use a dishing tool anyway.
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Old 06-13-05, 09:37 PM   #6
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Is dishing even a consideration when merely repairing "slight bends" so the family's brake pads don't rub?
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Old 06-13-05, 09:40 PM   #7
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Is dishing even a consideration when merely repairing "slight bends" so the family's brake pads don't rub?
not normally.
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Old 06-13-05, 10:34 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
The first one would probably be more stable. You don't need a dishing tool with any truing stand. All you need to do is to turn the wheel around to check for dish. That said, I'd rather use a dishing tool anyway.

Perhaps I'm a little bit confused over what dishing is versus truing... I was always under the assumption (remember, I'm quite new yet) that truing was getting the rim physically straight, while dishing is making sure that the rim itself is in line with the center "joint" if you will. As I said, I ended up getting the rim completely straight however it was shifted over one side a little too far, so that's where I'm at now.

Will these truing stands tell me where in the rim that it needs shifted to the right/left AND tell me if the rim itself is centered from the dish or as I mentioned before, "joint?"
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Old 06-13-05, 11:19 PM   #9
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I have the 2nd one.

It gets the job done, I have no complaints. When you put the wheel in you will be able to see if the wheel is shifting left to right as well as up and down. When the wheel moves left/right you use a spoke wrench and tighten/loosen the spoke nipples.

I hope that helps you somewhat....
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Old 06-13-05, 11:34 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattP.
I have the 2nd one.

It gets the job done, I have no complaints. When you put the wheel in you will be able to see if the wheel is shifting left to right as well as up and down. When the wheel moves left/right you use a spoke wrench and tighten/loosen the spoke nipples.

I hope that helps you somewhat....
Will this also detect the problem I had I posted above?

The problem I had: I had the rim completely straight, however it was completely shifted more to the one side. If you looked at the wheel when it was on the bike, the brake system was shifted over because of this.

Will this truing stand prevent this Matt? Thanks for your opinion by the way.
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Old 06-14-05, 12:02 AM   #11
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I think I understand what you are saying:

When the wheel is spun, the is no left-right wobbling of the rim. But when it is placed in the bike, it seems like it is shifted to one direction? Hmmm, im not sure of it will be able fix it. I'm not sure if it's just this stand, or if all stands can do it. Hmm, ill think about it through the might, and get back to ya.

Anyone else have any enlightening advice on the situation?
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Old 06-14-05, 01:11 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattP.
I think I understand what you are saying:

When the wheel is spun, the is no left-right wobbling of the rim. But when it is placed in the bike, it seems like it is shifted to one direction? Hmmm, im not sure of it will be able fix it. I'm not sure if it's just this stand, or if all stands can do it. Hmm, ill think about it through the might, and get back to ya.

Anyone else have any enlightening advice on the situation?
I don't mean to sound rude but you're misunderstanding a little bit.

I don't have this stand, I'm just comparing these two stands and tomorrow when my bank information updates I'll buy whatever I decide to get.

Before, when I was just tweaking the wheel by the naked eye and simple measurements, I managed to get the rim straight. This was NOT using a stand of any kind. More or less a tape measurement, a pencil to hold against the fork and see where the bends were, and my own two eyeballs. After I adjusted and finished tweaking everything, the rim was 100% straight... however, the one side of the rim must of been a lot tighter than the other, because even though the rim appeared straight when spun, it was obvious the entire rim was shifted to one side more than the other. Again, I was not using a stand.

My question is- Does using this stand prevent this? I know it will show me where the bends are in the rim, but will it assure me the rim is dead-center, and not to the one side like it was after I tweaked it while NOT using a stand?

Thanks for your help Matt. I do appreciate your responses.
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Old 06-14-05, 02:49 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roasted
I know I've been debating this for a while, and trying to find at-home inventions on my own time to cross out the need for a truing stand, but anymore it just seems more sensible to get one... mostly because my parents, girlfriend, and brothers have all started riding, and on three of the bikes the brakes jump at a certain point in the rim, indicating a slight bend. Instead of taking them to the bike shop, where those guys didn't tru my wheel right the first time, I'd rather just use that money for a stand and do it myself.

I'm not sure what to look for though. Is there certain stands I should look at? Maybe particular features? The price range of these two truing stands is IDEAL for me, so if you folks have any opinions off of these two stands I'd appreciate it.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...goods&v=glance

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...goods&v=glance

I was kind of thinking about going with the 49 dollar one, because they had mentioned something about it being self centering, so no dish tool is needed. The 54 dollar one's description is so short and blunt it's not really saying much about the product.

What do you folks think?
I have the Park Tools TS-8 home stand and it is pretty good. It looks a little chinsy in pictures, but I find it to be made quite nicely now that I have used it. It is a little more ($80), but I don't regret it. You can dish the wheel by flipping it as another poster mentioned.
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Old 06-14-05, 03:25 AM   #14
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Mr. Roasted, from what I can gather, you have mucked uo the dish of your wheel. Basically, your hub is no longer centered in relationship to the rim. It is offset to one side. Assuming it is centered in the dropouts, the rim itself should be of equal distance to the fork legs. To compensate for the bend in your rim, you have pulled it too far to one side. I'm willing to bet that it's no longer equally tensioned.

Search the forums, Sheldon Brown, or the Park Tools site for details on how this happened, and how to correct it. It's not difficult, just a pain until you've done it a few times.
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Old 06-14-05, 03:39 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Expatriate
Mr. Roasted, from what I can gather, you have mucked uo the dish of your wheel. Basically, your hub is no longer centered in relationship to the rim. It is offset to one side. Assuming it is centered in the dropouts, the rim itself should be of equal distance to the fork legs. To compensate for the bend in your rim, you have pulled it too far to one side. I'm willing to bet that it's no longer equally tensioned.

Search the forums, Sheldon Brown, or the Park Tools site for details on how this happened, and how to correct it. It's not difficult, just a pain until you've done it a few times.
Yeah, I got to the point I said f*ck it and loosened all of the spokes and kind of restarted. I did manage to get the wheel straightened again, but it has some bends in it I can't seem to find with my trusty workshop pencil sliding against the rim as an indicator. I'd much rather just get the stand due to the fact I will be at the beach in 2 weeks with my bike, so I'd rather get everything done while I can (and get it done right) before I leave.

It really stunned me how I somehow got the wheel PERFECT, no bends whatsoever, but it was obviously offset. I was kicking myself in my own ass for quite some time.

I just wanted to make sure that the stand I buy will prevent what happened to me the first time, which is the wheel being straight BUT still being offset to one side. If either stand prevents this, then we have a new winner.
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Old 06-14-05, 03:57 AM   #16
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The Minoura has legs that move independently, side to side. Just easier to use than the other stand. What you need to do is read up on how to get the tension equal on both sides now. Good luck.
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Old 06-14-05, 06:05 AM   #17
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The Minoura has legs that move independently, side to side. Just easier to use than the other stand. What you need to do is read up on how to get the tension equal on both sides now. Good luck.
Read up on how to get the tension equal? It's 8 am (late for me, I'm a third shift worker), I have a sinus headache, and I believe I may be misunderstanding you. But are you saying I should read up on how to get the tension equal on both sides with the stand, or without? Just wasn't sure what you were trying to get at.

To be blunt: Will either of these stands indicate to me whether or not the dish is out of alignment? Given the fact I've never used a truing stand, I'm taking a dive in the dark with you folks' opinions and recommendations.
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Old 06-14-05, 06:20 AM   #18
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You should read about how to achieve proper tension. You really need a tensiometer, but if you tighten both sides equally, your wheel will stay truer and last longer. With the vertical guide indicator on the center of the Minoura stand (the T shaped looking thing) you can pretty much verify that the wheel is dished correctly.
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Old 06-14-05, 08:21 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roasted
Perhaps I'm a little bit confused over what dishing is versus truing... I was always under the assumption (remember, I'm quite new yet) that truing was getting the rim physically straight, while dishing is making sure that the rim itself is in line with the center "joint" if you will. As I said, I ended up getting the rim completely straight however it was shifted over one side a little too far, so that's where I'm at now.

Will these truing stands tell me where in the rim that it needs shifted to the right/left AND tell me if the rim itself is centered from the dish or as I mentioned before, "joint?"
Dishing is overtightening the drive side spokes relative to the nondrive spokes so that the rim is centered on the hub. You achieve this by having shorter spokes on the drive side and by having a higher tension on the drive side. A self-centering stand means that the calipers of the truing stand are usually spring loaded and centered where the center of the hub should be. So a rim placed in the stand should be centered when it is placed in the stand and tensioned properly to get the rim evenly between the calipers.

I, personally, like a dishing too because it tells me how much I have to pull the rim to whichever side to get it centered. If you don't have a self-centering stand nor a dishing tool, you can take the wheel out of the stand and flip it over without adjusting the trueness indicator (the calipers) and adjust the wheel whichever way needed to get it centered. You will probably have to do this a number of times to get the proper adjustment.
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Old 06-14-05, 08:29 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roasted
Read up on how to get the tension equal? It's 8 am (late for me, I'm a third shift worker), I have a sinus headache, and I believe I may be misunderstanding you. But are you saying I should read up on how to get the tension equal on both sides with the stand, or without? Just wasn't sure what you were trying to get at.

To be blunt: Will either of these stands indicate to me whether or not the dish is out of alignment? Given the fact I've never used a truing stand, I'm taking a dive in the dark with you folks' opinions and recommendations.
The self centering stand will tell you when your dish is off. The rim will ride too close to one side and too far from the other, just like your brakes show you that the dish is off. The other stand will tell you the same thing but you will have to measure to find where the center of the stand is. I used an early Minoura like the noncentering one for several years and it is a good stand. It is very stable. I haven't used the self-centering Minoura but I have a Park stand that self-centers and it works well. I still rely on a dishing tool but that's because I'm old and set in my ways.
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Old 06-14-05, 02:45 PM   #21
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The self centering stand will tell you when your dish is off. The rim will ride too close to one side and too far from the other, just like your brakes show you that the dish is off. The other stand will tell you the same thing but you will have to measure to find where the center of the stand is. I used an early Minoura like the noncentering one for several years and it is a good stand. It is very stable. I haven't used the self-centering Minoura but I have a Park stand that self-centers and it works well. I still rely on a dishing tool but that's because I'm old and set in my ways.
Thanks for the opinions and information, I think I'm just gonna go ahead and order the Minoura.
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Old 06-14-05, 07:19 PM   #22
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I ordered the Minoura. What's odd is, Amazon.com always had two Minoura's which were 110% completely identicle listed, and I never figured out why.

Today one of them were on sale, so I grabbed one. Still unsure of why they'd have one for sale and not the other when they're identicle, but what's it matter... I got a deal.
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Old 06-14-05, 08:56 PM   #23
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Will a stand prevent messing up the dish, even if it doesn't come w/a dishing tool?
Well, it could, but only if you are patient with it. Since you can set the stand to measure for bends, if you notice it starts rubbing all the time, you should realize 'i tightened the entire side to much'. But again you can still mess it up if your not carefull.
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Old 06-14-05, 09:30 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattP.
I have the 2nd one.

It gets the job done, I have no complaints. When you put the wheel in you will be able to see if the wheel is shifting left to right as well as up and down. When the wheel moves left/right you use a spoke wrench and tighten/loosen the spoke nipples.

I hope that helps you somewhat....
I also have the second one. It's definitely not the cool Park professional stand you'll find at the bind shop, but it's a BIG step up from truing on the bike. I can get my wheel within 1mm on lateral and vertical true.

The only comment I have is that this stand is probably more appropriate for disc brake users. The "feelers" are just round nut heads. The expensive models have spring loaded "feelers". Using this too much could mar the finish on your rim and potentially affect rim braking.

I don't think you can rely on a local shop to true your wheels. They always have a "good enough" attitude of 2mm rather than REAL true of 1mm. I got my wheel back once and had to dish it off a half an inch.

Finally, get a GOOD spoke wrench. Not those crapo ones you get down at the discount store. They are meant to fit a couple different sizes of spokes, which means they are very good at rounding pretty much any spoke. Spend the $6 for a nice Park Tools or Pedros spoke wrench.
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Old 06-15-05, 12:55 AM   #25
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Anyone know a cheap source for the 20mm axle adaptors?
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