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Old 06-17-05, 03:31 PM   #1
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Oh no... why is my rim doing this?

I got my truing stand today and I was messing around with it a little bit. I came across something that made me cringe...

Imagine you are standing next to the rim, looking at the sidewalls of the rim as well as all of the spokes. Well, there's one point in my rim there it buldges outward quite a bit. I at first thought those particular spokes were just entirely too loose, and the rest of the rim was too tight... making this buldge out since the loose spokes would essentially mean longer spokes.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36...d/DSCN4519.jpg
*This picture shows the buldge in the rim hitting the gauge.*
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36...d/DSCN4518.jpg
*This picture shows the space between the gauge and the rim. This is how it should be.*
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36...d/DSCN4517.jpg
*This picture shows the rim hitting the gauge again.*
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36...d/DSCN4516.jpg
*This picture if you notice, there's a line in the rim... which tells us this is where the two pieces came together to make the rim whole. Hmmm... could this mean something?*
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36...d/DSCN4514.jpg
*Rim hitting, again.*

BTW, if anybody knows where you can get free hosting for videos around 4-5 megs I can show a 10-15 second video of exactly what it's doing...

With that being said, what can we do? I go to the beach in a week and believe it or not I was most excited about waking up in the morning to ride bike on the boardwalk.
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Old 06-17-05, 03:33 PM   #2
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use manual focus, your camera is not focusing on the correct area.
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Old 06-17-05, 03:36 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by glock17
use manual focus, your camera is not focusing on the correct area.
I did use manual focus. I can see very bluntly where the problem is...

You see the beige/silverish horseshoe thing? In the center of that, the black gauge? I have that set fairly close to the rim, and when I spin the rim there's a certain point where it hits. Picture 18 shows very bluntly that there is a space in between the gauge and the rim, like I set it to. Some of the other pictures show where it's hitting.
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Old 06-17-05, 03:36 PM   #4
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use manual focus, your camera is not focusing on the correct area.

His camera probably doesn't have a macro lens, in that case even manual focus won't help there.
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Old 06-17-05, 04:58 PM   #5
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Let's put it this way. Say you're looking at the side of the wheel, viewing the sidewalls of the rim as well as all of the spokes.

That figure is supposed to be a complete circle, correct?

Mine is not. At one point, it has a buldge outwards. What can I do to fix it? I'm dying for an answer... I have the perfect opportunity for a full day of riding tomorrow (no work, nothing else to do, and my girlfriend is working all day... ) and right now this rim is just sitting here cause I don't know what else to do...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36...d/paintrim.jpg
*Click once to enlarge the picture in your browser*
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Old 06-17-05, 05:01 PM   #6
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The wonders of MS paint.
Well you could try adjusting the spokes but I doubt that will help. Hammer the crap out of that bump.
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Old 06-17-05, 05:05 PM   #7
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The wonders of MS paint.
Well you could try adjusting the spokes but I doubt that will help. Hammer the crap out of that bump.
Can a bike shop fix this? Sadly, it's 7:05 and I think they close at 7. Sh*t...

If a bike shop can fix this, can anyone give me an estimated price?

edit - I thought it might be useful for me to tell you guys a little more detail about the rim. When the tire is on and I'm going down the street, I don't feel it. To be honest I think the rubber absorbs the small lump anyway. But, when the tire is on, and I hold down my front brake, the brake jumps. I thought it was a bend in the rim causing this, but here it's the small lump that's causing it (at least I'm pretty sure). I think the lump is a few small milimeters high.
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Old 06-17-05, 05:06 PM   #8
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Can a bike shop fix this? Sadly, it's 7:05 and I think they close at 7. Sh*t...

If a bike shop can fix this, can anyone give me an estimated price?
Why get your shop to do it...all they will do is beat it with a hammer.
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Old 06-17-05, 05:11 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by madbiker555
Why get your shop to do it...all they will do is beat it with a hammer.
I just wasn't sure if there was some kind of straightening machine they might use that might be safer to the rim than a rubber hammer. I'm not sure about this because I'm paranoid of bending the spokes if I whale the rim a few times with a nice rubber hammer.

I'm heading out the door for the night, but I appreciate all responses I've gotten so far and look forward to more. Thanks fellas!

-Jayce.
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Old 06-17-05, 07:00 PM   #10
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your wheel is just out of radial true. No big deal, it just means that in the spot there there is the "bump", the spoke tension is to low. Have you read Sheldron browns article about Truing? Or park tools. i suggest taking it to a shop and pay the 10 or 15 to have them do it but ask them to show you what it is so you can watch them do it and maybe pick helpful info up
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Old 06-17-05, 08:08 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by phantomcow2
your wheel is just out of radial true. No big deal, it just means that in the spot there there is the "bump", the spoke tension is to low. Have you read Sheldron browns article about Truing? Or park tools. i suggest taking it to a shop and pay the 10 or 15 to have them do it but ask them to show you what it is so you can watch them do it and maybe pick helpful info up
That's what I was hoping it was, just something simple that an expert could fix with some spoke tweaking. Well, I didn't spend 40 bucks on an entry level truing stand for nothing, so I'm going to give it a whirl... plus I got a nice 12 tool set which has a spiffy spoke wrench on it I want to mess with.

I guess since it's only 10 pm (I normally work third shift, so this is insanely early to me) I guess I could just loosen all of the spokes and essentially start over. It'd be a fun learning experience, but if I end up getting confused or something, the bike shop will be my first stop tomorrow afternoon when I wake up.

I was just hoping my actual rim wasn't completely messed up. Given, I'm new yet so when I see something I'm unexperienced with I freak out thinking it's a bad thing, versus you folks who know world's more.

By the way, where is Sheldron Brown's article at?
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Old 06-17-05, 08:17 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Roasted
That's what I was hoping it was, just something simple that an expert could fix with some spoke tweaking. Well, I didn't spend 40 bucks on an entry level truing stand for nothing, so I'm going to give it a whirl... plus I got a nice 12 tool set which has a spiffy spoke wrench on it I want to mess with.

I guess since it's only 10 pm (I normally work third shift, so this is insanely early to me) I guess I could just loosen all of the spokes and essentially start over. It'd be a fun learning experience, but if I end up getting confused or something, the bike shop will be my first stop tomorrow afternoon when I wake up.

I was just hoping my actual rim wasn't completely messed up. Given, I'm new yet so when I see something I'm unexperienced with I freak out thinking it's a bad thing, versus you folks who know world's more.

By the way, where is Sheldron Brown's article at?
bookmark sheldon browns site, its among hte best websites out there for cycling information. Lots about mechanics of it, techniques, good stuff.
http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html
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Old 06-17-05, 08:19 PM   #13
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Oh yea its also worth mentioning. I dont know what rim you have but often times you will find a little defect in Sun rims. My current rims have two little "bulges" on the rim itself, one on the weld and one somewhere else. You wont notice it, it makes the rim bulge out on both sides about .5mm which like i said, you will notice on the stand but on the ride. So dont get too picky about getting so true you can't see wobbles with the naked eye
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Old 06-17-05, 08:44 PM   #14
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Oh yea its also worth mentioning. I dont know what rim you have but often times you will find a little defect in Sun rims. My current rims have two little "bulges" on the rim itself, one on the weld and one somewhere else. You wont notice it, it makes the rim bulge out on both sides about .5mm which like i said, you will notice on the stand but on the ride. So dont get too picky about getting so true you can't see wobbles with the naked eye
That's the thing. I never noticed this little buldge in the rim. In fact you couldn't really see it on the bike, and you felt NOTHING when riding. The reason I knew something was wrong was the fact the front brakes jumped ever so often... so I knew there was something off somewhere, I just didn't know where to start, but I figured I'd come across the problem while truing the wheel.
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Old 06-17-05, 11:12 PM   #15
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Why get your shop to do it...all they will do is beat it with a hammer.
Yeah if your shop is run by a bunch of idiots. Seriously What the ****?
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Old 06-18-05, 02:11 AM   #16
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Yeah if your shop is run by a bunch of idiots. Seriously What the ****?
Raiyn, what do you suggest I do?

I read on Sheldon's site something about vertical truing, which from the sound of it was what I was looking for. Sheldon mentioned that I should look for the highest point of the rim, which I imagine was the buldge. Then, tighten those particular spokes in the group responsible for the buldge. Well, I did. Buldge is still there...

I go to the beach in the week and I'm so tied up with funds that going to the bike shop to get the wheel done by them is pretty much out of the question... Is there anything you can suggest to me?
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Old 06-18-05, 06:10 AM   #17
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Raiyn, what do you suggest I do?

I read on Sheldon's site something about vertical truing, which from the sound of it was what I was looking for. Sheldon mentioned that I should look for the highest point of the rim, which I imagine was the buldge. Then, tighten those particular spokes in the group responsible for the buldge. Well, I did. Buldge is still there...

I go to the beach in the week and I'm so tied up with funds that going to the bike shop to get the wheel done by them is pretty much out of the question... Is there anything you can suggest to me?
Did you tighten the spokes around hte bump too? you cant just make one spoke really tight and expect it to go. You have to even it out. On the bump, is the high spot on the section of the rim where a spoke is directly beneath it? Or is it on the section of the rim where it is between two spokes.
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Old 06-18-05, 06:26 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by phantomcow2
Did you tighten the spokes around hte bump too? you cant just make one spoke really tight and expect it to go. You have to even it out. On the bump, is the high spot on the section of the rim where a spoke is directly beneath it? Or is it on the section of the rim where it is between two spokes.
The bump appears to just be above two spokes. I tightened them, nothing. I tightened roughly 8 spokes in that group, nothing.

I don't know what else to do. I'm taking it to the bike shop this afternoon along with my truing stand (in case they want to see this exactly how I saw it first hand) to see what they think.

Also - I mentioned this once before, but not lately and wanted to remind you folks something. The particular bump in my rim, it's right where the rim comes together to make a circle. You know how I said there are 2 spokes that appear to be causing this bump? One spoke is on one side, one spoke is on the other... but both are next to each other, since these two spokes are the "end spokes" of the rim that come together to make the circle. Any relevance here?
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Old 06-18-05, 06:32 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Roasted
The bump appears to just be above two spokes. I tightened them, nothing. I tightened roughly 8 spokes in that group, nothing.

I don't know what else to do. I'm taking it to the bike shop this afternoon along with my truing stand (in case they want to see this exactly how I saw it first hand) to see what they think.

Also - I mentioned this once before, but not lately and wanted to remind you folks something. The particular bump in my rim, it's right where the rim comes together to make a circle. You know how I said there are 2 spokes that appear to be causing this bump? One spoke is on one side, one spoke is on the other... but both are next to each other, since these two spokes are the "end spokes" of the rim that come together to make the circle. Any relevance here?
ooh! The bump is right where the rim seam is then, this makes sense. Can you estimate how much the bump sticks out? it is very common for rims to have a little bulge at the seam (i think i mentioned that before). These bulges should be ignored during truing
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Old 06-18-05, 06:39 AM   #20
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I second what phantom said, take it to the shop and ask when they might have the time to true your wheel while you watch.

Is there a weld where this "hump" occures?

Vertical truing is a bit trickier. Some times you will need to loosen opposing spokes directly accross (other side of hub) and then tighten the ones near the problem. If done wrong you could make more of a prblem for your self.

Suggestion, once you get your rim fixed, by a cheep wheel you can practice on.

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Old 06-18-05, 07:06 AM   #21
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ooh! The bump is right where the rim seam is then, this makes sense. Can you estimate how much the bump sticks out? it is very common for rims to have a little bulge at the seam (i think i mentioned that before). These bulges should be ignored during truing
Well, on my truing stand I adjusted the gauge to be VERY close to the rim, and spun it rather quickly and just stared at the gauge while the rim spun. Obviously, when the rim spins every so often when that buldge passes the gauge (like .5 mm away) I can easily see where it is.

I estimate about 3 milimeters.

I don't notice this while riding. Again, I just don't want my front brakes to have that jump. That's the whole purpose of this, because before if I hold down the front brake it jumps pretty much everytime it hits the buldge. But when I'm doing 35 mph down a hill and I'm NOT braking, I feel nothing... so it's obvious this buldge effects nothing, but the braking.
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Old 06-18-05, 08:13 AM   #22
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If you need a hammer to fix ANYTHING on your bike, you are doing it WRONG!

I've been a bike mechanic for going on 20 years. The hammers are reserved for stuff that's come out of the junk pile and a high level of frustration that needs to be worked out.

O.k., maybe for tapping out a bearing or headset or other "correct" uses.

You've got a "HOP" in your rim. Instead of your wheel being pefectly round, it's egg shaped.

As you read in Sheldon Brown's How-to, "verticle truing" is difficult to do.

What I do is to loosen all the spokes all the way around in 1/4 turn increments four times, so I've loosened each spoke one full turn.

Start with the worst spot. (where the hump is) and tighten the two spokes on either side of the hop, in 1/4 turn increments. Then work to the next spoke on either side of the first pair. Then the next pair of spokes. effectively tightening 3 pairs of spokes. After you tightened the 3rd pair the first 1/4 turn, go back to the first pair and tighten them another 1/4 turn. Repeat this until the hop diminishes.

Hops are hard to eliminate. Why? well, the rim is a fixed length. When you pull the rim towards the hub in one location, it wants to bulge in another.

You may have to loosen the other spokes another 1/2 turn total if the hop doesn't go away.

Let me try to explain. You are pulling the rim inwards in one location and allowing the rim to move outwards equally over the remainder of the wheel.

The hard part is to pull in just enough and allow the rest to move outward enough, so that the rim is pefectly round again!
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Old 06-18-05, 08:18 AM   #23
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If you need a hammer to fix ANYTHING on your bike, you are doing it WRONG!

I've been a bike mechanic for going on 20 years. The hammers are reserved for stuff that's come out of the junk pile and a high level of frustration that needs to be worked out.

O.k., maybe for tapping out a bearing or headset or other "correct" uses.

You've got a "HOP" in your rim. Instead of your wheel being pefectly round, it's egg shaped.

As you read in Sheldon Brown's How-to, "verticle truing" is difficult to do.

What I do is to loosen all the spokes all the way around in 1/4 turn increments four times, so I've loosened each spoke one full turn.

Start with the worst spot. (where the hump is) and tighten the two spokes on either side of the hop, in 1/4 turn increments. Then work to the next spoke on either side of the first pair. Then the next pair of spokes. effectively tightening 3 pairs of spokes. After you tightened the 3rd pair the first 1/4 turn, go back to the first pair and tighten them another 1/4 turn. Repeat this until the hop diminishes.

Hops are hard to eliminate. Why? well, the rim is a fixed length. When you pull the rim towards the hub in one location, it wants to bulge in another.

You may have to loosen the other spokes another 1/2 turn total if the hop doesn't go away.

Let me try to explain. You are pulling the rim inwards in one location and allowing the rim to move outwards equally over the remainder of the wheel.

The hard part is to pull in just enough and allow the rest to move outward enough, so that the rim is pefectly round again!
Just to clarify, you want me to loosen all of the spokes and begin tightening in 1/4 turn increments at the hop location. After focusing on the hop location, is it more sensible to go to the opposite side of the rim and begin to tighten those? Or should I just go down the rim one at a time and lightly tighten them in groups, over and over until it's all done?
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Old 06-18-05, 11:55 AM   #24
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Aight, I'm done screwing around with this wheel.

I got it straight, minus one little kink I'll get out in a minute. From bending over cautiously looking this over my back started to hurt so I'm taking a break before I take out the last small bend in it.

Anyway, vertically it's still wobbling a bit. And now it's not so much where the seam is in the rim, so I fixed that but then I had a HOP at one other point in the rim, but a very small one. I just tweaked and compromised a little bit. Now, there's about a quarter's width of play.

Example: Remember how I said I adjusted my gauge on my truing stand so at the hop it was virtually RIGHT against the hop? Well, doing that same thing, I turned the wheel until I found the WIDEST gap inbetween the rim and the gauge. At the widest point, I can stick a quarter in between, but nothing else... it's a snug fit for the quarter itself.

I'm thinking that's close enough for a rookie. I'm gonna lay down for an hour, fix this last small bend, and go ride.

Thanks for everyone's help.
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Old 06-18-05, 12:09 PM   #25
madbiker555
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: ontario, canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiyn
Yeah if your shop is run by a bunch of idiots. Seriously What the ****?

Well my LBS is run by a bunch of idiots...seriously.
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