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Old 06-22-05, 08:11 PM   #1
BlkHawkDown
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Upgrading from Shimano Alivio -> LX

Right now I have a 8-speed Alivio on my brusier and I want smoother shifting, so I thought about the better derailluers. Will it fit on my bike? Or will it not because of my shifters, or do I need a bigger cassette? What should I do?

Thanks in Advance.
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Old 06-22-05, 08:20 PM   #2
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The derailleur won't care how many gears it's shifting.

Whether the upgraded derailleur will make a significant difference is another question!
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Old 06-22-05, 08:25 PM   #3
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Ok...?
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Old 06-22-05, 08:35 PM   #4
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As long as the derailer has more possible gears (or equal) as your shifters do, your ok.
Most say 8 or 9 gears, or 7 or 8.
I might be wrong (probably am) but i thought the new LX series was just a new name for the cheaper series. You should probably go for xt atleast. Just order my XT upgraded from either alivio or deore, i forget.
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Old 06-22-05, 08:36 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by nirvanaschains
As long as the derailer has more possible gears (or equal) as your shifters do, your ok.
Most say 8 or 9 gears, or 7 or 8.
I might be wrong (probably am) but i thought the new LX series was just a new name for the cheaper series. You should probably go for xt atleast. Just order my XT upgraded from either alivio or deore, i forget.

LX is one step above the Deore and is the first level of "Race" level components, LX, XT and then XTR. It is a very nice product. I love mine on my NRS.
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Old 06-22-05, 08:41 PM   #6
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You aren't going to notice improved shifting going from Alivio to LX unless: the Alvio is misadjusted or worn out.
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Old 06-22-05, 08:49 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by nirvanaschains
As long as the derailer has more possible gears (or equal) as your shifters do, your ok.
Bulldust.

It doesn't matter how many 'speeds' the derailleur is asked to shift, so long as it's range of motion (the travel between it's limits) can cover all the gears.

A new, more expensive derailleur is often not the ticket to better shifting. Spend some time to setup and adjust your current system before spending unnecessary money. http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/FAQrindx.shtml
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Old 06-22-05, 08:57 PM   #8
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The more accurate answer is rear derailleurs are designed to move from big to small cassette cogs and remove slack from the chain while doing so. all 9 sp compatible derailleurs will work with lower systems (ie 7 and 8 sp). 8 sp derailleurs will also work with 9 sp systems but cannot remove as much chain slack as 9 sp derailleurs. 8 sp systems and early 9 sp systems can remove up to 39 teeth worth of slack while current Mega 9 derailleurs can remove 43 Teeth worth of slack. to determine how many teeth worth of slack needs to be removed 1) add # teeth on small chain ring + # teeth on small cassette cog 2) add # teeth on large chain ring + # teeth on large cassette cog 3) subtract #1 from #2 and thats the number of teeth your rear derailleur will need to remove. Current Mega 9 systems have 43 teeth of slack (44+32)-(22+11) = 76 - 33 = 43 teeth. I hope that helps...
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Old 06-22-05, 09:45 PM   #9
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wow, extra information. So i shouldn't upgrade, won't do much for my Alivio. Right?
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Old 06-22-05, 09:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubacca
Bulldust.

It doesn't matter how many 'speeds' the derailleur is asked to shift, so long as it's range of motion (the travel between it's limits) can cover all the gears.

A new, more expensive derailleur is often not the ticket to better shifting. Spend some time to setup and adjust your current system before spending unnecessary money. http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/FAQrindx.shtml
Thnx for the website.
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Old 06-22-05, 10:44 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Ranger
You aren't going to notice improved shifting going from Alivio to LX unless: the Alvio is misadjusted or worn out.
Bulldust (to qoute Stubacca). I have LX on my brand new NRS properly adjusted and setup. My brother-in-law has Deore on his brand new Cannondale properly adjusted and setup and we BOTH notice a big difference between LX and just regular Deore.

You will notice a difference but only if you change the shifters to LX as well as the Derailleur.
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Old 06-22-05, 11:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorsar
8 sp derailleurs will also work with 9 sp systems but cannot remove as much chain slack as 9 sp derailleurs. 8 sp systems and early 9 sp systems can remove up to 39 teeth worth of slack while current Mega 9 derailleurs can remove 43 Teeth worth of slack. to determine how many teeth worth of slack needs to be removed 1) add # teeth on small chain ring + # teeth on small cassette cog 2) add # teeth on large chain ring + # teeth on large cassette cog 3) subtract #1 from #2 and thats the number of teeth your rear derailleur will need to remove. Current Mega 9 systems have 43 teeth of slack (44+32)-(22+11) = 76 - 33 = 43 teeth. I hope that helps...
Actually that's highly technical bunk in regards to this conversation.

The only difference here is range of motion. You can get an 8 speed derailier to shift a nine speed system perfectly as the cassette wdth is exactly the same.

It isn't about chain slack or anything else because that's determined by cage length not how many speeds it was designed for. They had 11 and 34 tooth cogs on 7 speed cassettes and they had 44 and 22 tooth triples way back when as well

Quote:
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Thnx .

I will break you of this habit
In regards to the question the SHIFTERS will play a bigger role in smoothness and precision than the derailieurs.
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Old 06-22-05, 11:03 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by jameyj
You will notice a difference but only if you change the shifters to LX as well as the Derailleur.
What kind of difference?
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Old 06-22-05, 11:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiyn
[color=blue]
I will break you of this habit
In regards to the question the SHIFTERS will play a bigger role in smoothness and precision than the derailieurs.
Hey man, sorry about that. I remember you burning me before. "I will be broken of this habbit!...only on bikeforums.net"
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Old 06-22-05, 11:05 PM   #15
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What kind of difference?
The difference between a Hurst and a column shifter.
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Old 06-22-05, 11:07 PM   #16
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Should I buy different shifters?
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Old 06-22-05, 11:11 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlkHawkDown
Should I buy different shifters?
Chances are it would have more of an impact. Alivio is pretty decent in my opinion I ran the previous generation Alivio on my commuter until about a year ago. The newer Alivio stuff on the newer bikes is so much better than what I had.
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Old 06-22-05, 11:31 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiyn
Actually that's highly technical bunk in regards to this conversation.
I didn't realize basic math now qualifies as "highly technical".

To be honest, when I had that exact question this is the information that gave me the confidence to step outside the marketing hype and use logic to figure out what would work. I almost take that as a compliment Raiyn, who'd have thought that knowing as little as I know about this stuff I'd be asked to dumb down my answers.
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Old 06-22-05, 11:37 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorsar
I didn't realize basic math now qualifies as "highly technical".

To be honest, when I had that exact question this is the information that gave me the confidence to step outside the marketing hype and use logic to figure out what would work. I almost take that as a compliment Raiyn, who'd have thought that knowing as little as I know about this stuff I'd be asked to dumb down my answers.
As I stated it's not about the chain wrap capacity as that's still a product of cage length.

It's also a moot point as the 8 Speed Alivio shifts 9 just fine. (Though that's not what he's asking)

I'm not sure why you think all the math helped you as it's the range of lateral motion that's important here, not the chain wrap.
Perhaps I should have said "needlessly wordy"?
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Old 06-23-05, 03:36 AM   #20
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If I were you I'd just get them properly set up. Alivio stuff should work fine. Make sure your cable moves freely, mech hanger is straight, nothing covered with crap. Don't bother upgrading (yet)
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Old 06-23-05, 07:53 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jameyj
Bulldust (to qoute Stubacca). I have LX on my brand new NRS properly adjusted and setup. My brother-in-law has Deore on his brand new Cannondale properly adjusted and setup and we BOTH notice a big difference between LX and just regular Deore.

You will notice a difference but only if you change the shifters to LX as well as the Derailleur.
Ranger ain't talking bulldust... he's absolutely correct in the context of this question: replacing the derailleur will not have a significant impact.

There's more difference between the NRS and the Cannondale shifting than just the derailleur. As you rightly point out, the OP will only really notice a difference if he upgrades the shifters as well, which will mean buying new cassette and chain too if he's upgrading to 9 speed. At which point you're better off upgrading to SRAM X.7 triggers and derailleurs IMHO.
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Old 06-23-05, 05:11 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubacca
At which point you're better off upgrading to SRAM X.7 triggers and derailleurs IMHO.
Especially with pricepoint's $80 shifters / R.D. package
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Old 06-23-05, 05:17 PM   #23
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The bruiser is a free ride bike. Why are you upgrading components like those?

It would be like an XC rider getting a QR 20 wheelset.
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Old 06-23-05, 05:21 PM   #24
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The bruiser is a free ride bike. Why are you upgrading components like those?

It would be like an XC rider getting a QR 20 wheelset.
This is certainly true. I was merely answering the question.
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Old 06-23-05, 05:36 PM   #25
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This is certainly true. I was merely answering the question.
True say.

I suggest he save up for a better fork or some other such free riding component.
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