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 10-06-05, 10:16 PM #1 crgowo Senior Member Thread Starter     Join Date: Feb 2004 Bikes: Posts: 388 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Can i put a chain guide on my bike? I may be wrong but are some chain guides mounted by pressing it with the bbcup? If so what size bb do they fit. Im thinking of purchasing this to help reduce chain suck while pedaling. I mostly do technical XC or trail riding ( really dont know the difference) so I dont need those full blown duel roller chain guides. Anyhow if my bb size is 73 113.5L would I beable to mount this. I would like to keep my big chain ring if possible. http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/134...hain-Guide.htm or this http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/130...hain-Guide.htm what do the sizes mean on the this one? Thanks for your help.
 10-07-05, 12:23 AM #2 jeff williams I couldn't car less.     Join Date: Nov 2003 Bikes: Ritchey P-series prototype, Diamondback, Nishiki Triathelon Pro. Posts: 4,397 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Unless you have an ISCG mount they go on\in the bb. I just use the lower roller. No suck and not too many . Adapt the roller shaft to be longer and it would do a double? Sorry, I run single. (38 to 11-30 is da BOMB!) Guides can be noisy, but work. No other info from me, I don't have the ISCG mount and am not even sure that's the right spelling. Pretty sure.
 10-07-05, 06:48 AM #3 J-McKech What?     Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: N. Tx Bikes: Bianchi Brava(retired), Surly Instigator(retired) Posts: 1,650 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 1 Post(s) hey Jeff, what type of chainring are you running? Who made it?
 10-07-05, 08:05 AM #4 cryptid01 one less horse     Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: East Jesus NY Bikes: are better than yours Posts: 5,600 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) The guide arm is sandwiched between the drive side BB cup and the BB shell. It will work with any normal mountain BB. The LRP will not allow you to keep your big ring. I have no experience with the Heim.
10-07-05, 12:07 PM   #5
jeff williams
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 Originally Posted by FreeridinLoon hey Jeff, what type of chainring are you running? Who made it?
The silver is the triples original 46 with the teeth ground off.
The black is a 38T Blackspire non-ramped ring.

10-07-05, 01:01 PM   #6
J-McKech
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 Originally Posted by jeff williams The silver is the triples original 46 with the teeth ground off. The black is a 38T Blackspire non-ramped ring.
Do you find the non-ramped ring is stronger than ramped? I'm about to go 1-9 and I'm trying to go cheapie on the front chainring.

10-07-05, 02:21 PM   #7
cryptid01
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 Originally Posted by FreeridinLoon Do you find the non-ramped ring is stronger than ramped? I'm about to go 1-9 and I'm trying to go cheapie on the front chainring.
If you've already got a ramped ring you'd like to use, you should be okay...I've run a single ramped ring on my freeride bike all season (in conjunction with an MRP guide) and have had no problems.

10-07-05, 06:22 PM   #8
J-McKech
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 Originally Posted by gastro If you've already got a ramped ring you'd like to use, you should be okay...I've run a single ramped ring on my freeride bike all season (in conjunction with an MRP guide) and have had no problems.
Well good.

 10-07-05, 06:34 PM #9 ChroMo2 Senior Member   Join Date: Aug 2005 Bikes: 1997 Schwinn Moab2 cross-country racing, highly modified, rebuilt many, many times. very fast! Posts: 256 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) chainsuck is caused by improper drivetrain setup and/or maintenance. try using a wider bottom bracket and a smaller chainring for the low gear. Make sure your chainring, chain, and cassette are all compatible. Ultimately a new cassette is needed to mate with a new chain. Clean and lubricate your chain more frequently, making sure the links don't bind.
10-07-05, 06:47 PM   #10
jeff williams
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by FreeridinLoon Do you find the non-ramped ring is stronger than ramped? I'm about to go 1-9 and I'm trying to go cheapie on the front chainring.
The ramp ring I replaced was Shimano ramp\pin and thin-flexed, also I was going from 36-38 to get some speed.
The Blackspire is thicker, smoother and I climb alot so I want strong.

Maybe replace in the spring when worn? Ebay and they are cheap.
You wear rings faster on singles, I run a non-indented ring and flip it before one side of the valley wears too much.

Cheers.

10-09-05, 02:34 PM   #11
crgowo
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thanks for the help.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by ChroMo2 chainsuck is caused by improper drivetrain setup and/or maintenance. try using a wider bottom bracket and a smaller chainring for the low gear. Make sure your chainring, chain, and cassette are all compatible. Ultimately a new cassette is needed to mate with a new chain. Clean and lubricate your chain more frequently, making sure the links don't bind.
Ill check those things, because my bb may be to narrow because when in the small chain ring and biggest cog the chain is just about to rub against the tire.

10-10-05, 06:57 AM   #12
jeff williams
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 Originally Posted by ChroMo2 chainsuck is caused by improper drivetrain setup and/or maintenance. try using a wider bottom bracket and a smaller chainring for the low gear. Make sure your chainring, chain, and cassette are all compatible. Ultimately a new cassette is needed to mate with a new chain. Clean and lubricate your chain more frequently, making sure the links don't bind.

"try using a wider bottom bracket and a smaller chainring for the low gear."

Straight chain or you wear. Single chainring straight chain to mid cluster.

"Make sure your chainring, chain, and cassette are all compatible. Ultimately a new cassette is needed to mate with a new chain."
He didn't state he'd replaced the drive.

Mono ring, the chain needs to kept on the ring. The derailer is only a kind of tension.
Tensioned drives work better, smaller the rear gear, more you'll have a jump.
MotoX, use the same to keep the drive engaged while the suspesion is flexed.

Maybe the chains too long.

 10-10-05, 07:06 AM #13 jeff williams I couldn't car less.     Join Date: Nov 2003 Bikes: Ritchey P-series prototype, Diamondback, Nishiki Triathelon Pro. Posts: 4,397 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) My gearing is 38 to 11-30. 9 spd chain would snap I think. Heavy rider =no go. 7 or 8 rear. Chain> SNAP! OW! @$= * Last edited by jeff williams; 10-10-05 at 07:19 AM. 10-10-05, 07:17 AM #14 cryptid01 one less horse Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: East Jesus NY Bikes: are better than yours Posts: 5,600 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Quote:  Originally Posted by jeff williams My gearing is 38 to 11-30. 9 spd chain would snap I think. Heavy rider =no go. 8 or 7 chain. My gearing is 38 to 11-32. 9 speed chain hasn't snapped thus far after 1 hard season. Heavy rider = me (230 lb) 1 chain is all that's required. 10-10-05, 07:43 AM #15 jeff williams I couldn't car less. Join Date: Nov 2003 Bikes: Ritchey P-series prototype, Diamondback, Nishiki Triathelon Pro. Posts: 4,397 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Quote:  Originally Posted by gastro My gearing is 38 to 11-32. 9 speed chain hasn't snapped thus far after 1 hard season. Heavy rider = me (230 lb) 1 chain is all that's required. Not from what I've heard. * or less climbing. Hum. ho. LETS GO! 10-10-05, 09:31 AM #16 cryptid01 one less horse Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: East Jesus NY Bikes: are better than yours Posts: 5,600 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Quote:  Originally Posted by jeff williams Not from what I've heard. * or less climbing. Hum. ho. LETS GO! Ignore list, meet jeff williams. jeff williams, ignore list. 10-10-05, 03:17 PM #17 jeff williams I couldn't car less. Join Date: Nov 2003 Bikes: Ritchey P-series prototype, Diamondback, Nishiki Triathelon Pro. Posts: 4,397 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Quote:  Originally Posted by gastro Ignore list, meet jeff williams. jeff williams, ignore list. So I'll take your advice over my bro's with 25 yrs riding NShore? And over my mechs who builds bikes for trials riding? =8 max. I use the 7 rear so my wheel has less dish. Next we are spreading the frame 145mm to build hella strong wheels. I don't like the sound of your drive, wouldn't work for me. When I say climbing, I don't mean hills. Stone outcroppings the size of apt buildings. Standing on the drive. 9 spd chains can\have snapped, 7's, never heard of it. All I need is the 11-30 range off a 38, less cogs. -larger chain is a superior drive in that it can be stressed to a greater degree. The ramped 36T ring I took of would have probably snapped or bent yesterday (my best ride EVER!) Glad I tossed that POS. You can argue your point, or be rude. Doesn't matter to me. Last edited by jeff williams; 10-10-05 at 03:32 PM.  10-11-05, 08:34 AM #18 cryptid01 one less horse Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: East Jesus NY Bikes: are better than yours Posts: 5,600 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) jeff williams, now that you have edited your posts to approach accepted rules of coherent sentence structure, I will take the time to respond to the parts I think I understand. Essentially, the difference in our opinions is this: You make contentions based on hearsay and speculation ("9 spd chain would snap I think" and "The ramped 36T ring I took of would have probably snapped or bent yesterday"), whereas I offer an empirical data point based upon my direct experience...namely, running a 1x9 with a ramped front ring for a season without any chain issues whatsoever. I have removed you from my ignore list so I can continue to mitigate the adverse effects of rumor mongering on other forum members. Listening to you praise yourself for your perceived technical craftiness or the gnarly terrain you conquer is a burden I will just have to bear.  10-11-05, 10:52 AM #19 Blazinall91 Show Me What'cha got Join Date: May 2005 Location: O'Fallon, Misery Bikes: old school Giant Attraction MTB (where it all started),old school Schwinn High Plains MTB (XC and long ride duty), Mosh DJ3 (BMX basher), and Trek Bruiser 1 (freeride and full of mods and still growing) Posts: 1,225 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) I'm runnin a single ring, 32 to 11-32 8 speed, i love it thus far, I'm running a race Face 32tooth and i have a 36 tooth FSA as well. 10-13-05, 08:12 PM #20 jeff williams I couldn't car less. Join Date: Nov 2003 Bikes: Ritchey P-series prototype, Diamondback, Nishiki Triathelon Pro. Posts: 4,397 Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s) Quoted: 0 Post(s) Quote:  Originally Posted by gastro jeff williams, now that you have edited your posts to approach accepted rules of coherent sentence structure, I will take the time to respond to the parts I think I understand. Essentially, the difference in our opinions is this: You make contentions based on hearsay and speculation ("9 spd chain would snap I think" and "The ramped 36T ring I took of would have probably snapped or bent yesterday"), whereas I offer an empirical data point based upon my direct experience...namely, running a 1x9 with a ramped front ring for a season without any chain issues whatsoever. I have removed you from my ignore list so I can continue to mitigate the adverse effects of rumor mongering on other forum members. Listening to you praise yourself for your perceived technical craftiness or the gnarly terrain you conquer is a burden I will just have to bear. "whereas I offer an empirical data point based upon my direct experience...namely, running a 1x9 with a ramped front ring for a season without any chain issues whatsoever." Another one bites the dust. Broken Chain Ever break a chain? I Crashed Tonight And Was Taken To The Emergency Room I'm getting really sick of this X.9 chain and powerlink. First bad accident...crappy day! Breaking Stuff Chain Breaking? Snapped My Chain Tonight Chain Broken Chains Suck Chain ?'s My stupid chain broke AGAIN! Bad Crash + Broken Derailleur + Broken Chain (x2) = Two Crappy Days Busted my chain "en route" to work... Has this happened to anyone? My chain snapped Snapped chain story & Questions My bike is messed my bike How often have you gotten stuck with no way home.? Chain Broke then it mangled my derailer!! Legs of Steel!!! Broke my chain and crashed hard A lucky break? O.K..p.m everyone and chart what spd drive they were running. Ignoring the fact a single ring drive has less ability to gear out the load on the drive. "Essentially, the difference in our opinions is this: You make contentions based on hearsay and speculation ("9 spd chain would snap I think" and "The ramped 36T ring I took of would have probably snapped or bent yesterday")," I took it off before it snapped, I can bend it by hand, felt it under load.. Chain ring questions? 02-03-04. First post regarding modded crank. 1 yr and 8 months ridings single ring drive(s). "Listening to you praise yourself for your perceived technical craftiness or the gnarly terrain you conquer is a burden I will just have to bear." A pic of my ho-made tensioner and drive stuff. My favorite climbing rocks, a few pics. I'm only kinda crafty, my mech is the one who added 4.5mm to my axle length to correct my chainline. The person who advised me to run a 7 is a good friend with 25+ years cycling expierence cycling and was aware of the bluffs I ride are dangerous, and that I was mashing (38-28 gearing) standing on the cranks climbing. I asked him if thinner chains snap easier, he said yes. I asked how to prevent this and a possible fall. He said stick with the 7, they don't snap, had never heard of it. I believe in the right gear for the right job, a non-ramped\pin ring front if no derailer. One reason I do this with a non-offset ring as I flip it over when I change the chain to get more life\less hooking. The other is I want a thicker ring to prevent possible bending or snap. Never snapped a chain since childhood, never bent a modern chainring. I will still continue to 'overbuild', I'd rather play safe and save my money.$nap!

Insult away. Makes no difference to my bike building or ego.
Makes you seem a bit of a jerk though.
Post 15 would be me after working Sun night through 'till 4 am Monday morning @ a nightclub=drinking afterhours (morning) with my co-workers.
Less than coherent, but not too rude.

Last edited by jeff williams; 10-13-05 at 08:23 PM.

10-14-05, 06:24 AM   #21
cryptid01
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by jeff williams [a bunch of links showing that people break chains from time to time]
I agree. Chains break. Never said they didn't. Moving along...

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jeff williams O.K..p.m everyone and chart what spd drive they were running.
Why should I be the one to do this? All I said was that my ramped 1x9 hasn't broken.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jeff williams Ignoring the fact a single ring drive has less ability to gear out the load on the drive.
I don't understand what you mean by "gear out the load." Could you please elaborate?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jeff williams I took it off before it snapped, I can bend it by hand, felt it under load..
Whatever makes you feel comfortable. You can run a Wipperman grinding chain and change it weekly if it makes you feel better. I seldom tell anyone what they should do with their bike.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jeff williams Chain ring questions? 02-03-04. First post regarding modded crank. 1 yr and 8 months ridings single ring drive(s).
Well, I didn't post it nine years ago in 1996, but that's when I got my first MRP chainguide and went 1X8, and have been running a single front ring ever since. I've broken zero chains in the intervening time period, for what it's worth.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jeff williams The person who advised me to run a 7 is a good friend with 25+ years cycling expierence cycling and was aware of the bluffs I ride are dangerous, and that I was mashing (38-28 gearing) standing on the cranks climbing.
I'm not going to tell you what gearing to run either.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jeff williams I asked him if thinner chains snap easier, he said yes.
Doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure that one out.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jeff williams I asked how to prevent this and a possible fall. He said stick with the 7, they don't snap, had never heard of it.
Again, whatever you're comfortable with. Sounds a little paranoid to me, but hey, who am I to judge?

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jeff williams I believe in the right gear for the right job, a non-ramped\pin ring front if no derailer. One reason I do this with a non-offset ring as I flip it over when I change the chain to get more life\less hooking. The other is I want a thicker ring to prevent possible bending or snap.

Sound reasoning. I usually run dh rings as well, I just couldn't justify ditching the brand new ring that came on my bike when I felt like there was at least one season in it. And there was.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jeff williams Never snapped a chain since childhood, never bent a modern chainring.
See? We have something in common after all.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jeff williams I will still continue to 'overbuild', I'd rather play safe and save my money.
Good on ya. Go crazy.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jeff williams \$nap!
I hope that wasn't your chain...

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jeff williams Insult away. Makes no difference to my bike building or ego.
nor mine.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jeff williams Makes you seem a bit of a jerk though.
Meh, I've been called worse. I'm actually a nice guy (when I'm sleeping, anyway).

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jeff williams Post 15 would be me after working Sun night through 'till 4 am Monday morning @ a nightclub=drinking afterhours (morning) with my co-workers.
If I'd known you were drunk, I wouldn't have wasted my time.

Over and out.

10-19-05, 10:32 PM   #22
jeff williams
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 Originally Posted by gastro I don't understand what you mean by "gear out the load." Could you please elaborate?.
My term for lack of better. The lack of lower gears as most single rings off road range say 32-38?
A bike using multiple rings can change to a lower gear to compensate for rider\bike weight and grade of climb =spinning.
Mashing, the use of weight and leg strength for climbing is harder on your chain\drive.
A single ring bike rider will be mashing more often as he can't gear out the 'load' to an easy spin speed.

I won't usually change a gear when climbing -hard on the drive if the chain\drive is under stress (load).

Now, spinning versus mashing-

Climbs long, not too steep:
A spin sitting in the low gear -30T cog will work, but slow.

Climbs shorter\ more extreme:
The gearing I choose is 24T as the point where the bike slows after the initial run at the slope, you must be able to keep the speed up to overcome inertia and spinning fast then catching the drive/chain as the bike slows = is harsh.
Mashing in a higher gear works better as you can stand on the cranks climbing and muscle the bike up.

Short climbs with near vert\vert tops:
I choose a higher gear again as I will not spin up, simply power run @ it and when I get to the top, I have to rotate the wheel froward quickly as to not fall back\inertia =using less teeth rear and rolling forward with a half revolution of the crank compared to a full rev using the 30T cog.

I'm doing 'climbing\trials' on a 21 lb XC bike. I'm a light guy, I worry about the stress I put on chains\rings. I'm glad to see more print of 8 spd being able.
Most people I've read snap the chain -do it climbing, And with the ability to 'gear out' and spin.

Cross chaining is suspect (gotta love those single ring bikes eh? No brainer, no cross chainer!)

I'm using the upper roller on the boomerang as a tensioner to keep the chain on the ring.
Also , to not have any derailer movement\shift out as I hammer these hills. The drive must engage smoothly and when I stomp on it.
I think these systems are MX derived chain tension pulleys for constant drive engagement for rear shocks as the flexed rear leaves the chain slack?

Kinda happens with the bike derailer if it moves during a jump or abnormal chain tension shift.
Kind of a chain 'wave' that lifts it off the top of the chain ring I think.
The lower pulley can be used to stop this, upper for the constant drive engagement with rear suspension.

I will build an 8 spd drive when this 7 spd hub\wheel gets wasted.
Main reason =no nice body 7 index shifters.
I wreck them 1 per year.
My drive will stay 11-30, the range is all thats important to me, and less clicks to get to across the better.

I can't say yes or no to 9 spd mono-ring drives as I haven't used one.
Glad the bike works fine. Many of the points may not apply, most people don't seem too into climbing.
Gravity, DH, maybe freeride =no problem. Climbing makes me want to post a caution.
Yes i'm paranoid ...as a guy who relies on his gear to keep him safe and continue having fun.
Safe than sorry..you know.

Wow..what a long post.

Last edited by jeff williams; 10-20-05 at 05:28 PM.

10-20-05, 08:55 PM   #23
ChroMo2
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 Originally Posted by jeff williams So I'll take your advice over my bro's with 25 yrs riding NShore? And over my mechs who builds bikes for trials riding? =8 max. I use the 7 rear so my wheel has less dish. Next we are spreading the frame 145mm to build hella strong wheels. I don't like the sound of your drive, wouldn't work for me. When I say climbing, I don't mean hills. Stone outcroppings the size of apt buildings. Standing on the drive. 9 spd chains can\have snapped, 7's, never heard of it. All I need is the 11-30 range off a 38, less cogs. -larger chain is a superior drive in that it can be stressed to a greater degree. The ramped 36T ring I took of would have probably snapped or bent yesterday (my best ride EVER!) Glad I tossed that POS. You can argue your point, or be rude. Doesn't matter to me.
maybe you should try taking someone elses advice. your critics sound a little stale in their methods. If you spread a frame to adapt a wider hub it's gonna distort the frame affecting tracking. if you snap your chain as easy as you say, you shouldn't dictate drivetrain set-up, because your doing something wrong! Why don't you offer the use of a stainless steel chain? Don't ask me to explain my modification processes because building bicycles is a couple steps down from building street racing machines and i'ld rather enjoy the simpleness of the performance gains you can get with the minimum applications needed to build a high-performance bicycle. At least if you can't do it yourself, you can surely ride harder to make up for the difference.

10-21-05, 02:21 PM   #25
jeff williams
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 Originally Posted by ChroMo2 maybe you should try taking someone elses advice. your critics sound a little stale in their methods. If you spread a frame to adapt a wider hub it's gonna distort the frame affecting tracking. if you snap your chain as easy as you say, you shouldn't dictate drivetrain set-up, because your doing something wrong! Why don't you offer the use of a stainless steel chain? Don't ask me to explain my modification processes because building bicycles is a couple steps down from building street racing machines and i'ld rather enjoy the simpleness of the performance gains you can get with the minimum applications needed to build a high-performance bicycle. At least if you can't do it yourself, you can surely ride harder to make up for the difference.
The frame would be cold set (chromoly), is 140mm at rest, 5mm won't affect it much as far as tracking?
I'm under the impression tracking is the distance back the rear wheel is.
But will do some research to your point.

Using the wider hub body is for an 8 cluster, the reason I may do this is the wider hub body means less extreme dish angle of spokes on the drive side. A strong wheel.
I'm discussing this with my Mech as he's the one who has to fix the warps I've done to 135mm-7spd gear, and next big thing for me is a custom rear wheel for trials using a cluster (often SS).
Bomb proof (we will see... ).

I've just got into the chain fun, I'm to purchase a Wipperman 808 connex as my next replacement.
My drive was designed by me, assembled by a qualified Mech. It runs perfectly.

Since I seem to take the discourse WAY out of the O.P's questioning, I'll make this short and likely my last in this thread.
Perhaps I'll start a thread about the wide hub body\spoke dish some time.

Peace>jef.