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Old 09-14-02, 08:19 AM   #1
Ginger
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Hunters!!!!!

Good Morning everyone: Hunting season is around the corner! When the season starts, I cringe. Last fall, I went out and bought my bright orange vest and ditched my white helmet. So here is my question: How many people have encountered almost getting shot while peacefully riding their bikes by a hunter?? I know they have rights and all , but honestly, it scares the dickens out of me!!! I also love animals and feel terrible when someone kills them! What type of thrill do you get when you try to trick an animal out of the woods and then kill them ? Doesn't seem like a fair kill to me!!! Fall is my favorite time of the year to mountain bike so I choose to don my vest and go for it anyway always with a little bit of fear. Even when you go to parks that hunting is not allowed, you still have to worry about poachers! What are peoples thoughts on this subject????
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Old 09-14-02, 09:21 AM   #2
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Well Ginger,
Most people around here hunt on their own property or have a lease they use. My advice to you is ride somewhere else until the season is over.
My thoughts on hunting and the rights of the hunter are rather stiff. Also I am not one to use blinds, stands, or bait. I am a stalker/sniper. I cal also tell a orange vest from a deer or turkey.
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Old 09-14-02, 09:37 AM   #3
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Fall is my favorite time of year to ride as well but where I ride, encountering a bruin loading up on berries and such for the winter is more of a concern for me than a hunter taking pot shots at my head. We generally take the necessary precautions for this time of year (don't blend into the background and carry a big can of bear spray) and knock on wood, haven't had any incidents yet!

We did encounter a sow with a cub once but that was in August.
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Old 09-14-02, 10:56 AM   #4
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The deer and turkeys never come out to fight, when I stand in the forest and holler out challenges to single combat, if that's what you mean by a fair kill...

Just kidding, I don't hunt. Around here, it would be more sensible to be worried about being shot by a person with a methamphetamine addiction, rather than hunters
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Old 09-14-02, 01:35 PM   #5
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I think hunters are really brave, esp in a country in which the constitution guarentees the right to arm bears.
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Old 09-14-02, 02:26 PM   #6
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Never thought about it. On the trails I ride and the places I go they are clearly hikers and bikers havens. I don't think hunters are allowed in the area.
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Old 09-14-02, 02:36 PM   #7
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Might I suggest a cow bell like the one Kona advocates for freeriders? This would serve a couple of purposes:[list=1][*]Identifies you as something other than a deer or bear, etc. (Unless they're hunting cows)[*]Scares off the animals they're hunting, so that the hunters have to pack it up and leave the area.[/list=1]
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Old 09-14-02, 05:01 PM   #8
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Hello all,
Yes it's fall (gee what happened to summer?) and the hunters will soon be back in the woods. I don't hunt, but if others want to hunt that's fine with me. Hunters are only allowed a few weeks a year to enjoy there sport. So when its hunting season I just don't ride wear hunting is allowed. In my state (CT) there is no hunting on Sundays, and many of the state parks do not allow hunting (some state parks don't allow bikes) They have a right to enjoy the forest just as we do. It all works out in my mind, its a small world and we have to share it.

If you must ride, wear orange, cow bells and such. Accidents happen.

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Old 09-14-02, 05:47 PM   #9
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I love riding and hunting. Last year my friends and I accidently went riding on the first day of deer season. We saw a few hunters, but none tried to shoot us. The best thing to do is ride in state parks were hunting is not allowed or at times when hunters are not out and wearing a orange vest would not hurt. Hunters have just as much right to use the woods as us and often find themselves in the same situation as mountain bikers, people are always trying to take away the land that we can use.
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Old 09-16-02, 08:55 AM   #10
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Here's a thought. Ride during hunting season, scare away the game, get hunters really upset with mountain bikers so they try to restrict mountain biking on public land.

Keep in mind that the hunting community/lobby is MUCH stronger than the biking community/lobby. If you ruin the hunting, they will ruin the biking.

Whether you are pro hunting, or not, it doesn't matter, if you want to protect your right to ride on public or private land you must respect the rights of others.

Trail access is a problem around the world. Don't make it harder for us by trying to protect Bambi and friends.
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Old 09-16-02, 09:26 AM   #11
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Mr. Woodyupstate: Nice post. You have a strong point. FYI I do not try to scare away game. And yes I do love animals. Of course the hunting community is stronger than ours. Hunters pay for their license and the state makes a little bit of money. Not so with biking. My ramblings about hunters? I ride on trails that hunters are not allowed! Private owned trails that I have permission to ride on or state parks !!!I still choose to don the orange vest due to this: Myself and husband have almost been hit by poachers! So where are you safe? Guess I should just pack up the bike and hit the gym for a few spin classes? I am just looking for a safe haven to ride in thats all! not stir up a war with hunters over trails...Everyone has a right to enjoy the land. ( I just would like to enjoy it without being shot at by some drunk that had no right being where he was at that time) Thats what I was rambling over. Just thought I would clear this matter up!
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Old 09-16-02, 09:50 AM   #12
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My $0.02c worth. South Africa culls elephants in the state controlled game reserves, the Kruger National Park being the flagship. It decries poaching, but the legal stocks of ivory are worth a lot of money. SA releases part of its ivory reserves each year, so in times of reduced ivory poaching, there is a legal trade taking place, where most of the ivory is destined for the far east and that stimulates the demand for the illegal product. The country has been asked at CITES why it does not openly destroy it's ivory stockpile, worth millions of dollars. It refuses to do so, arguing that income derived from a legal supply is returned back to park management and conservation projects. A noble cause? The jury is still out. Nice people, eh?

The veldt of Zimbabwe, Botswana and Mozambique are littered with carcases of elephants and rhino that have been cut down with the most appaling brutality. For example, AK47s and grenade launchers are often used. Sometimes a hot pursuit finds game that are still alive after having their horn or tusks removed with a chainsaw. Nice people eh?

Some years back, Christiaan Barnard (he of heart transplant fame) was implicated in a TV documentary that showed wealthy hunters dragging a lion cub to its death that was tied to a Land-Rover. Nice people eh?

Safari hunters seldom take the old and lame specimens from a pride or herd. The trophy room demands the best specimens. Top dollar is paid by those that fly in, demand air-conditioning comfort, and slaughter, and then fly out, for what purpose? Nice people, eh?

I was once up in the Caprivi Strip (northern Botswana) with a military patrol. At the end of the day, an impala was hunted and taken out with a machine gun. To get wood for the fire, explosives were strapped to a tree and detonated. We had a bushman (San) tracker with us. He wailed in anguish at what the patrol had done. Nice people, eh?

All for what? Bloodlust? The joy of the stalk and the kill? We often refer to savage behaviour as being like that of an animal, but no animal ever behaved like that.

I don't understand the hunting mindset. I wish I could.
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Old 09-16-02, 11:56 AM   #13
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Bravo!
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Old 09-16-02, 12:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bokkie
I don't understand the hunting mindset. I wish I could.
Bokkie,

Just so you know where I stand. . . I don't hunt, but used to be an avid hunter. Cycling, for various reasons, has replaced hunting in my life. Even so, I respect the rights of hunters.

Here in N. America the whitetail deer is quite prolific, and news stories have them making a pest of themselves in suburban areas, even in metropolitan neighborhoods. Without hunting this species would overpopulate in a couple of years and force culling of the heard by some means. In the meantime more deer would be road hazards, suffer winter starvation and spread disease.

Here in rural New York State rabies among raccoons is an ongoing problem, yet was rarely heard of in the '70s. Why the change? Up through the 1970s and '80s trapping of raccoons for the fur market kept the population in check. When wearing of fur coats, etc., became a fashion no-no the raccoon population exploded and rabies became the disease du jour. Rabid raccoons were seen wandering into backyards and playgrounds. I refused to let my children wander into the woods behind my house for fear of encountering a rabid raccoon. There were enven cases of deer contracting rabies during this time, which is unheard of.

I do not condone poaching or illegal taking of game in any way. However, our conservation departments use hunting as a way to keep wild game populations in check. Biologists study population trends and determine the number of licenses to be distributed. It's scientific, and is condoned by the majority to allow humans and wild animals to coexist as best as possible.

Finally, hunters pay millions of dollars in license fees into state conservation departments. These dollars are used to manage game populations and support public lands. Whether we (here in the US) want to admit it, hunters support the public lands we as mountain bikers use. While I would be willing to pay a $30 annual mountain bike off-road license fee to support management of public lands, I'm in the minority.

Hunters have the same problem that mountain bikers have, which is, land use issues. You may not agree with them, but they are better allies than enemies at this point.

Hunters are like every other group, there are lots of law-abiding ones and few jerks. Mountain bikers have the same problem. Motorcyclists have the same problem. Bridge players have the same problem. You may think all hunters are drunk and dumb, red-neck furballs, but you would be wrong.

Ginger, you are certainly allowed your rant, I just hoped to present the other side of the story.
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Old 09-16-02, 12:14 PM   #15
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Originally posted by mechBgon


Just kidding, I don't hunt. Around here, it would be more sensible to be worried about being shot by a person with a methamphetamine addiction, rather than hunters
I read this and wondered if I knew where you were from. Then I saw that I was right! I too worry about the same thing.
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Old 09-16-02, 07:25 PM   #16
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I'm a member of both user groups! I believe that there are more hunters than you would imagine that get out there on mountain bikes. I've know a good number of people that use their mountain bikes to scout out hunting areas and game usage patterns. On a mountain bike, as you know, one can cover a good deal of ground. Getting out into the woods and looking around is how one is successful in hunting and a mountain bike allows a person to look at even more ground.
I've used the mountain bike and a BOB trailer to have some great hunting trips. I've seen non-cyclist turned into cyclist when they discovered it through hunting. I've also seen non-hunters discover hunting through mountainbiking! See, we can all get along.
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Old 09-17-02, 12:31 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Raiyn
Might I suggest a cow bell like the one Kona advocates for freeriders? This would serve a couple of purposes:[list=1][*]Identifies you as something other than a deer or bear, etc. (Unless they're hunting cows)[*]Scares off the animals they're hunting, so that the hunters have to pack it up and leave the area.[/list=1]
Allow me to clarify before this turns in to a right wing / NRA feeding frenzy
The areas where I ride are closed to hunting but moronic redneck "hunters" STILL decide to go out in these areas and hunt. As far as I'm concerned your rights as a hunter END when you hunt in a restricted area. I could give a flying rat's hind quarters if someone's hunt is spoiled if hunting's not allowed in that area. THEY AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE THERE! /rant I have no problem with hunting per se as long as I'm not downrange and they're where they're supposed to be.
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Old 09-17-02, 02:04 AM   #18
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Bridge players have the same problem. You may think all hunters are drunk and dumb, red-neck furballs, but you would be wrong.
Sorry, I never meant to cause offence but hunting is one area where it is almost impossible to sit on the fence. What I tried to present were the extremes inflicted on game conservation. The poacher, the wealthy, the game park managers, the military (in the examples I gave) all demonstrate aspects of hunting, which I know most honourable hunters will probably oppose.

We accross several hunting parties in Namibia and Botswana and the sancrosanct rule, was that the hunter took the shot, and the ranger/tracker had the second if it was needed. They never left an animal wounded. One professional hunter took the view, that if his client did not kill on the first shot, then the trophy was not taken and the rangers second shot would leave the animal dead in the bush. He said, that if the hunter could not kill on one shot, he did not deserve the animal. Yes, there are significant funds to be raised from licences. Botswana has, I think, three of the very best managed public national parks in the world, the Khutse, the Kalahari, and the Okavango Delta and hunting licences make vital contributions. But over the years, imbalances in game quantity and quality have crept in and there has been a shift into ecotourism.

As I said, hunters do not desire the lame and the weak. They demand and pay for the prime specimens. It is often that an elephant herd will lose its societal bonding because the matriarch of the herd is killed by hunters. she is the best of the herd, is the healthier specimen, and the herd is weaker for it. Why can't the hunter settle for the lesser?

In the Kruger National Park, hunting was reduced in many areas. There is a high incidence of bovine tuberculosis that many buffalo have and which has now crossed into the lion population as they hunt the buffalo. Now, the park authorities are having to cull lion and buffalo to try and control the infection. A battle they have not won and bovine tb does not respond to conservative veterinary treatment. Why the spread of the disease? They don't really know. Maybe it's been there all the time, in much the same way that tsetse fly (sleeping sickeness) and rinderpest could in theory become endemic again, but the absence of cattle and horses has prevented that. They believe it is stress-related, where game cannot roam as freely as the migrating herds used to, so the genetic stock has weakened as well. There are many reasons, and culling has proved to the only viable solution to a man-made problem.

So I agree completely with what you say about the deer and racoon populations. I think that from where I look it, I wonder why hunting is promoted as sport? Is the kill in the same league as a baseball home run, a goal in soccer, a six in cricket? Is it actually a pleasurable experience? In the examples I quoted, there is obviously pleasure derived, but what exactly is it and how is it defined?

In the UK, the nation is divided over fox hunting. If you've seen the spectacle, you'll know it is mostly a class (social standing) issue. They dress in expensive hunting suits (red jackets and what have you), they take a stirrup cup before the hunt starts and everything is governed by rule and protocol. A pack of hounds run the hapless fox into the ground and rip it to pieces. If all that is needed is to kill the fox, then why not have more clinical methods to do it? They must exist. A set of night vision glasses and highly accurate rifles will probably take care of the fox. They, the hunters would argue that fox hunting is humane. If the fox is caught it is killed, if it escapes it lives another day. But a wounded fox is not an option. There are powerful and emotive and noble arguments from both sides. If I lived to be 200 years old, I'd probably still not understand it.
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Old 09-17-02, 06:48 PM   #19
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Ginger,
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Old 09-17-02, 07:35 PM   #20
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I'm not a hunter myself, but I support responsible hunting.

Humans are a predator and have the same right to roam wild and free in the forest and eat other critters as a wolf or cougar does. Forbidding hunting to humans would imply that we are not a part of nature and are somehow morally superior to the rest of the wild things. I haven't hunted, but I've fished, and there's a definite intense visceral interest in stalking something, hiding in the shadows and waiting to pounce. In an artificial age, we need to preserve all the natural instincts we can. Have you ever realized how many survival traits we lose by living the way we do? Our instinct tells us to stay home and sleep on a snowy day: the alarm clock tells us to get up and go to work. Our instinct tells us not to eat when we're not hungry: the TV tells us we need some Doritos. Our instinct tells us we are bored and frustrated with our safe, sheltered lives: our culture tells us we all need to work more so we can buy more impressive toys. The more we ignore and suppress our instincts, the more we lose them. Someday we may NEED those instincts again. They developed for a reason, in the first place.

Hunting is not only an instinct, it's a survival skill. The skills learned from hunting may save lives in some situations. It's no good waiting till you have to kill to live, and then hoping you catch on as you go. I look on good responsible hunters with the same attitude I look on the Amish. ("At least, if everything goes to hell, thank god there will be SOMEONE who remembers how to do things without grocery stores/tractors/computers/whatever.) The more primitive the hunting equipment the better--hats off to bowhunters and black-powder hunters. Even more admiration to insane survivalists who learn to creep up on a deer and kill it with bare hands or a jackknife. Someday, that knowledge may be all that stands between them and starvation. And we non-hunters will have to hope the insane survivalist will share with us.

Sadly, most of the deer hunters I know are much more interested in the beer and poker games than the actual hunting!

I had a close call once. (In my car, though, not on my bike.) I was driving past a field when a huge buck with a big rack jumped up and ran along with my car! Then I saw that on the OTHER side of him was a hunter with an aimed rifle. If he shot and missed the deer, I had a good chance of being ventilated. Fortunately he apparently wasn't too drunk or too obsessed with Buck Fever to ignore the danger and take the illegal shot. (Though, if I hadn't been there, I have a feeling he would have ignored the law about shooting too close to the road.)
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Old 06-27-03, 04:05 PM   #21
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Just as a rider gets exhileration from nailing a trick or accomplishing a faster time on their favorite course, hunters take pride in the skill that is required to track and target an animal. Hunting has been part of human civilization since we began, and just because we now do it for accomplishment rather than survival does not make it wrong. The thrill comes from having successfully tracked down and successfully hit the animal with the weapon of choice. Its like a high stakes hide and seek.
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Old 06-27-03, 04:41 PM   #22
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I definitely worry about hunters when I'm riding. I also worry about the animals. I think we should turn the tables.... mount gun racks on our bikes, team up with the bears and hunt the hunters.
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Old 06-27-03, 05:54 PM   #23
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Hey guys, the thread was conceived 9 months ago. The baby is born and the gift shower is past.

Goodness, must dug deep to pull this one out.
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