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Thread: Got new tires

  1. #1
    Newbie erhan's Avatar
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    Got new tires

    Kenda Nevegal 1.95"...

    I have always wanted to test these tires, but because the tubeless version is too heavy, I didn't get them. Then I thought why I don't go and get the tube version and use them tubeless with Stan's sealant. This way I save more than 300 grams on both tires as well . So, yeah, I got them.

    Getting the tires leak free was totally a pain in the a**. First I should say that I've never tried regular tires tubeless. I install UST tires, and get them ready to ride in about 15 minutes, but these took probably about 7-8 hours, and still not sure if they are leak free.

    Here's the story: First I had to install the tires with tubes in order to get the beds seated on the rim. After doing that the tires were inflated with a floor pump like regular UST's. OK, this part took like 30-45 minutes. Then I put 2 scoops of Stan's sealant in each tire, and I've been shaking the wheels since then. Like in the video in notubes web site. The sealant seals the leaks, ok, but it takes so much time. The guy in the video does it in a few minutes, I've done it in 7 hours. Good workout though, I must admit. Shakin' n' pumin'

    Oh man, seriously, if all regular tires take this much effort, I'll never get one again. Even if they are the best tires in the world. I'm totally exhausted.

    Anyway, I left both tires at 50 psi. Let's see what happens in the morning. Can't wait to test the nevegals

  2. #2
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    How did you put sealant in a tire if the beads were seated and a tube was in it? Am I missing something?

  3. #3
    Throw the stick!!!! LowCel's Avatar
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    kritter - you can usually remove the valve stem and put the sealant in that way.

    erhan - Kenda's are supposed to be tougher to use with Stan's than other tires. Actually, they are not supposed to be used with Stan's at all but that is another story. I will be mounting my Karma DTC's this evening or this weekend so we'll see how that goes.

    The biggest tip I have read about when using Kenda's with Stan's is to clean the inside of the tires with soapy water and also take a scuff pad to them. There is some type of a layer in them that doesn't really allow the Stan's to adhere to them. After that they are supposed to mount relatively easy.

    Here are a couple of links to take a look at before using Stan's with Kenda's.
    Kenda's warning.

    Thread I started on mtbr asking about running Kenda tires with Stan's.
    I may be fat but I'm slow enough to make up for it.

  4. #4
    Newbie erhan's Avatar
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    Well, the tires seem to be sealed now. Both were 2 psi down after 10 hours. It usually loses about 1 psi when getting a measurement with a pressure gauge, so they actually lost about 1 psi which is good I think.

    kritter:
    About your question, I actually removed the tube first, reinflated to see if it holds air, and then dismounted a portion of the tire on one side, poured the sealant in, remounted, and inflated again. This could have been done by removing the valve stem as LowCel said (which actually might have been easier).

    LowCel:
    Now you tell me . No, seriously, I knew about Kenda's warning, but I wanted to try these tires so badly that I didn't care about it. I hope the tires will be worn before they blister. What I didn't know was that I could get rid of the shiny inner surface. I realized it when I poured the sealant in, it was like water on teflon, but I thought it was just the type of the rubber. I guess I should have done more research, Vancbike's tip at mtbr is really good. Thanks for posting the link .

    My previous tires were Karma 1.95 USTs. They are the fastest tires I've used so far. Even though they are not light (about 700gr each) they feel very light. Their grip level is somewhat the same as Pythons, may be a little better. In the wet they don't have much grip though. That's why I wanted to get Nevegals, and keep the Karma's for the dry season. DTCs should be better than the ust version as they have a softer compound. Oh and the weight... oh man, your bike is gonna be one light sweet ride...
    Last edited by erhan; 10-20-05 at 01:48 PM.

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    Careful of those sidewalls! I gave up on non-tubeless tires for this reason.

    Also, it can be a lot easier to get them seal if you leave them inflated with the tubes in for at least a couple of hours, preferably a couple of days.

  6. #6
    Throw the stick!!!! LowCel's Avatar
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    I just finished installing the Stan's system and the Kenda Karma DTC's. It took me about an hour total. I actually inflated the tires with no fluid in them first with an air compressor, inflated right away. Then I let the air out, removed the valve core, squirt some stan's in. Then I put the valve core back in, added some air with the air compressor again. Spun them around a few times and called it a day. These were some of the easiest tires I have ever done with Stan's.

    I have been using Stan's with non-tubeless rims and non-tubeless tires for close to three years now, I have never had any real problems with them.

    Now, with all that said I did have a new experience tonight. I mounted some Panaracer XC mud 1.8's on my mud wheelset (XT hubs, mavic 717 rims). I did them the same way I did the Kenda's above, no problems doing the rear, then I sat it down and started on the front. The next thing I knew a cannon went off. I turned around, saw white fluid all over everything. If that wasn't bad enough my rear wheel was laying about a foot away from where I had put it, a foot away from that was my tire. My ears are still ringing! Anyway, I re-mounted the tire, inflated it back up and there have been no problems since. I did learn an important lesson though, don't add more than 40 psi to 1.8" mud tires.

    On a side note, I can't believe how light this new wheelset is with these tires.
    I may be fat but I'm slow enough to make up for it.

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    Newbie erhan's Avatar
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    foresthill:
    Do you mean like pinch flats? I check tires after each ride, but there isn't more I can do about it I guess. If I ever get one, I'll think about it one more time Thanks for the tips.

    LowCel:
    It's good to hear that you installed the tires really quick. Did you scrub the tires' inner surface before you installed them, and do you think the rim strip also helped sealing? I don't use a rim strip or anything.

    Once, I had an explosion like that too, but it was the tube which exploded. That's the scariest thing ever. I didn't understand how yours happened though, did it just popped out of the rim?

    And finally about the weights ... How much does the AC-Karma setup weigh? I believe that is one of the lightest combinations .

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    Throw the stick!!!! LowCel's Avatar
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    Yeah, it just completely came off of the rim. Both of the Panaracer's are holding air great now. My front Kenda is doing great as well, however when I woke up this morning my rear Kenda was flat. I'll work with it a little this evening. I did crub the inside of the tires, guess I missed a spot on the rear one though.

    My front wheel with Stan's liquid, Stan's strips, and the tire weighs a whopping 1260 grams. That is 165 grams lighter than my old set-up, which was a Hugi 240, Mavic XC 317 rims, Stan's and Continental Explorer Pro. That's quite a bit of rotational weight gone. I expect to save even more weight than that with the rear wheel.
    I may be fat but I'm slow enough to make up for it.

  9. #9
    Newbie erhan's Avatar
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    That's really awesome. It's about 300 grams lighter than my front without the rotor . I hope you can send some pictures when you're done

  10. #10
    Throw the stick!!!! LowCel's Avatar
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    Once I'm done with everything I'll post some pics.

    The rotor and the rotor bolts add 121 grams per wheel to the total weight.
    I may be fat but I'm slow enough to make up for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by erhan
    foresthill:
    Do you mean like pinch flats? I check tires after each ride, but there isn't more I can do about it I guess. If I ever get one, I'll think about it one more time Thanks for the tips.
    No, nto pinch flats. Blowouts. UST tires have much burlier sidewalls to take the added stress of not having a tube in there. I've blown out two sidewalls on non-tubeless tires. The first one *could* have been a tear. It was hard to tell. The 2nd one was on clean slick-rock. I just went with slightly higher pressure than normal (only about 40psi) and about 1/2 mile into the ride, the sidewall split from the pressure! I fixed it on the spot with some superglue and a patch inside the tire. But this convinced me to go out and buy the UST version of the tire, even tho they weigh another 300g each.

    I've had no problems since switching to the UST tires.

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    Sounds like a lot of trouble, is it worth it? I mean if yo blow out you're hosed but with a tube you can usually patch or replae and get out of the woods. What are the advantages to this stuff?

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    Throw the stick!!!! LowCel's Avatar
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    Well some people have great luck with it, I am one of those people. I have several thousand miles with it now and only two flats, one of which was completely my fault since I had let the fluid dry up. Both of my flats happened at Slatyfork, WV. If you have ever ridden there you will understand how I ended up flatting.

    Some people don't have the same luck.
    I may be fat but I'm slow enough to make up for it.

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    Senior Member Lamplight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erhan
    Once, I had an explosion like that too, but it was the tube which exploded.
    My friend did that in a bike shop. We were the only ones laughing.

  15. #15
    Newbie erhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foresthill
    No, nto pinch flats. Blowouts. UST tires have much burlier sidewalls to take the added stress of not having a tube in there. I've blown out two sidewalls on non-tubeless tires. The first one *could* have been a tear. It was hard to tell. The 2nd one was on clean slick-rock. I just went with slightly higher pressure than normal (only about 40psi) and about 1/2 mile into the ride, the sidewall split from the pressure! I fixed it on the spot with some superglue and a patch inside the tire. But this convinced me to go out and buy the UST version of the tire, even tho they weigh another 300g each.

    I've had no problems since switching to the UST tires.
    Yeah, regular tires are not designed to be used without tubes so it makes a lot of sense. But I also believe in the luck factor. For example, I had had lots of trouble with tubes, but some people don't have as much problems, or I've never had any problems with ust tires but some people hate them complaining about not having them hold air. So hopefully I'll have some luck with these tires .


    Quote Originally Posted by Big Jim Mac
    What are the advantages to this stuff?
    The advantages for me are, lighter weight, and being able to run low pressures (under 30 psi), and puncture resistance (hopefully).

  16. #16
    Newbie erhan's Avatar
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    No luck at all . I think I'm going back to USTs.

    The day after I installed the Nevegals, I went for a ride which was about 30 kms. The tires were perfect, and they are as good as they say. The day before, I rode only a few kilometers, they were still holding air.

    Yesterday, it was a nice day, and I planned to go for a long ride. I geared up, and started stretching while checking my bike. And guess what? The rear was completely flat . End of the nice day, what a frustration.

    So I started pumping and shaking again . This time though I gave up after an hour or so. I tried everything I could, but there are too many holes on the sidewalls of that tire that the sealant just doesn't seal them. It actually seals them for a moment, but when I touch my finger it starts to leak again.

    So now, I'm looking for new tires between 1.9" and 2.1". Either light weight UST, or problem free regular tires with Stan's. Any suggestions?

  17. #17
    Throw the stick!!!! LowCel's Avatar
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    I used the Continental Explorer Pro's and the Escape pro's for a couple of years with no problems. I also used the Tioga Red Phoenix and the Panaraer Fire XC Pro with no problems. My favorites have been the Conti's though.
    I may be fat but I'm slow enough to make up for it.

  18. #18
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    I've found the Weirwolf 2.1 UST's to be perfect. Great tread (well for Southern AZ anyway), long wear, sealed really easily with only about an hour pre-inflated on a wheel with a tube first.

    Haven't had a single problem with them.

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