Quadzone.com

Well the subject pretty much says it all. I'll be meeting with a company tonight called Tire Balls. www.tireballs.com We will be mainly discussing things reguarding ATV's BUT they have and are slowly venturing into the mountain bike scene. They actually made up some prototype balls for a guy that works for maxxis that does downhill. He tested them out west and love them. Reason being is they are next to impossible to pop and your days of pinch flats are over. If you want to run 20 psi in your tires and get traction like you've never had before then you actually can. There is no air in your tire at all it's in the balls. Not sure how this would work with standard tires, might have to use tubeless tires only but not sure. Something we'll be working with and on in the future.

So I created a poll and would like feed back to relay on to the owners and developers of this product. be sure to go check out the website and videos to see the abuse these things can handle. Your feedback truly could help this product take off so please reply, vote and voice your opinion on this.

Cost is unknown right now but I do know they are costly for ATV's, but there is a lot more material to fill 4 atv tires compared to 2 small 2 inch wide mountain bike tires so the cost might not be as bad as you would think.. How much is a flat during a race worth to you or a long trip out on the trails??

Namenda

Well, flat-proof tires sound great. When you say they are costly for ATV's, how much are we talking about?

LowCel 

My biggest concern would be the weight of such a system. A big weight gain in rotational weight would be pretty noticable even to the non-weight weenies. Adding a fluid such at Stan's already makes flat's almost non-existant.

C Law

UST with stans is close enough for me. But I would be interested of course

Quadzone.com

The cost for an ATV tire is around the $200 range. That is per tire and most ATV tires are 9x11x20 so that's lots of space to fill up.

The wiegh little to nothing. I'd have to get an actual wieght of one and how many go in an average 26 inch tire before I could tell you weight weenies what you need to know... LOL

also there is no nasty, sticky, guey mess to deal with like the other types.

Karldar

Interesting concept, but definitely pricey! Plus, doesn't look like it would be very easy to adjust your pressure in a MTB tire(unless you had tubeless rims, of course). I'd be willing to try it(at a more financially prudent time for me) if I didn't have to mess with tubeless. Seems like a hassle, but I've never actually used them....

Quadzone.com

Adjusting air in the tire would be a nightmare I can tell you that.

Quadzone.com

I also forgot to add that at one time us ATV guys' thought Slime was the chit and that it was the ultimate flat proof system. I'm guessing most MTBers think slime and stans is the same and that theres no need for something else because nothing could be better.

Slime and Stans won't withstand a 1/2 inch or bigger gash in the tire like tireballs can. Just an FYI

I posted a picture of what a rim looked like after it tested without tireballs. One rear tire had tireballs the other didn't. The rider hammered down on the course until the end of the test. You be the judge....

bruiser2

I don't get how the balls get air into them in the first place. And if they are prefilled then how the hell do you get them inside?

dminor 

It looks fascinating! I like multicellular idea. I'd been toying with ideas myself, like inserting something like those pool-toy float 'noodles' or pipe insulating lengths - - especially if they could be had in different durometers to simulate different 'pressures.'

Looks like these folks have come up with a good (albeit spendy) solution. If it didn't add too much extra unsprung weight for downhilling, it would be a good trade-off for no more pinch-flats.

As an amateur, I couldn't justify a great expense to save a DNF; but if they are looking for more beta testers to sponsor for a season , I'd be happy to help them out. (Refer to the 'Getting Sponsored' thread in the Racing forum).

Quadzone.com

The balls require a special pump to put air in them. You would fill all the balls first, then insert them in the tire and set the beads.

The weight of all the balls in a tire is LESS than the weight of an inner tube. So no weight gain is added AT ALL.

The guy who tested them at whistler doing downhill had the PSI at 20 lbs and never popped a bead or popped a ball, after a full day of riding and testing.

LowCel 

Sounds pretty good but what if you wanted to change your pressure for different types of terrain? Would you have to take out all of the balls and inflate them then remount the tire?

Quadzone.com

Yes you would, but setting it at a good neutral pressure would be the best.

What need would you have for changing pressure**********

dminor 

I presume that since the balls don't take up 100% of the volume of the casing that to, say, achieve the equivalent of 15-20# pressure, each ball needs to be inflated above that figure some. Have they figured out a conversion factor that will give consistent results?

born2bahick

Wow, that doesn't hardly seem possible! At least for a little bicycle tube.

foresthill

Gotta admit. this sounds like kind of a pain in the butt for MTB tires. I'm pretty happy with my stan's and UST tires.

LowCel 

I run a different pressure on just about every ride I do as do most people I know. It all depends on the terrain. There is not one "right" pressure to run. Sometimes you will be riding and need to drop the pressure a little, sometimes you will find yourself doing less technical riding so it will be better to run a higher pressure.

Quadzone.com

Would that be to have better traction???

Remember that you'll get optimum traction at any pressure and that tire roll and other problems that occur with standard tires with tubes or that are tubeless will not be the same.

LowCel 

Sometimes it is for better traction, some times it is for less rolling resistance. Some times it is better to run 40 - 45 psi to have less rolling resistance on smooth trails or fire roads. However once you get to the technical section it is nice to be able to just tap on the valve a couple of times and drop the pressure for the descent.

Also, a lot of people ride their bikes to the trails so they won't want to have the rolling resistance of running the tire at 20 psi on their way to the trails.

Being able to easily adjust tire pressure is pretty important in this sport. An adjustment of just a couple of psi can make a huge difference in performance.

Who knows, your idea may be a huge success. However I see it as something that people would buy thinking it would be great but would slowly make their way back to either running standard tubes or going back to a tubeless system. I believe that the difficulty of adjusting air pressure will become too much of a hassle for most people.

2manybikes

The primary suspension on a bicycle is the tire. There are all sorts of reasons to change the tire pressure.
On bumpy ice or a rocky road I ride about 25 psi. The traction is better, but also there is more suspension and the bike is easier to control. The handling changes a lot. It's very important.
However low pressure is harder to pedal and slow on a harder surface such as the road. For a long ride to and from the dirt on the pavement I switch to 65 psi. This is just one example, one needs to be able to vary the pressure to sell enough of these things. It is hard to imagine how they can weigh the same as a lightweight MTB tube. This is critical. If you don't know the answer yet, find out before bothering to spend any money on this project. All you need is a mail order catalogue to compare tube weights of all kinds.

If you don't know about the weight and you don't know why one needs to change pressure in mtb tires, you need to do a lot more homework before trying to sell these things. You will miss the market completely. I'm not trying to be negative, I just don't want you to invest in something that will not sell well.

The Iditabike snow racers run about 5 psi and glue one bead to the rim to keep the tire on. Just another example of different pressure.

Be sure to understand tire rolling resistance and speed of a tire also. It's a big thing when all you have is a human for an engine. The more rubber to be flexed as a tire rolls the slower it is.

It sounds like the finished filled tire will have some of the characteristics of a honeycomb structure in the tire. OK for ATV,s lousy for a bicycle. You have to flex all that rubber and it has to rebound. It won't react the same as air. The rubber will react slower. It’s seems to me that they have to be slower? Racers even switch to latex tubes over butyl tubes for more speed, just because the weight and the flexing of the material is different. The latex recovers it's shape faster. These are just some of the things you will face when you try and sell them.

Karldar

Since most modern motorized vehicles use tubeless tires, the balls can be set at a neutral pressure and air pressure in the tire itself adjusted to suit the terrain/conditions. That's why they work so well for dirt bikes and ATV's-tubeless tires. I think you'd need a tubeless setup on your MTB to achieve decent results...unless you wanna take the balls out and change pressure in every one. The only other way I could see making it work would be to slit a tube, stuff the balls in it and then patch it back up(not sure how well this would work). Then you could insert the tube as usual and be able to adjust pressure in the tube while reaping the benefits of the balls inside...maybe. It's definitely piqued my curiosity, but not enough for me to spend money on it.

LowCel 

It is definately interesting. I just don't think I could justify the extra work / weight / trouble enough to actually buy it. I think it is easier to fix a flat once every two years.

I guess you could always just have a different wheelset set up for every tire pressure you intend on running. I couldn't imagine how many wheelsets I would end up with though. I already have three wheelsets set up for different type riding conditions.

2manybikes

It would be interesting if you put a good size rip in a tire and the balls allow you to ride.
You would have to patch the rip in the tire anyway to keep it from filling with water, snow, ice, dirt, and mud. So why not just put a new tube in while you have the tire off. Not for small holes, just a big rip. In the last 10 years I had two flats on my mtb's, both were big rips. I already have almost flat proof tires anyway. I use spinkskins. Small things won't penetrate the spinskins.

wearyourtruth

so if i understand it right, they basically made a bunch of little tubes, so that if you pop one then you don't go flat... you just have a little bit of a flat spot in your tube? shouldn't they then sell the balls individually? what happens when you bust one of the balls? it's bound to happen, i know they are trying to make them seem indestructable but they are just rubber balls... i don't see them taking a nail or anything any better than tubes.

the only real improvements i see on this are that if you pop one you don't go completely flat, and they seem to be pretty pinch-flat resistant.


i'm hoping this technology reaches bikes soon instead
https://www.michelinman.com/differenc...01102005a.html

dminor 

It looks like the cross-country guys are universally beating up on the concept - - and with good reason probably. If they're needing to change pressures frequently, it could be a pain. [Besides - - and I'll probably regret saying this - - they tend to be a bit more resistant to innovation and change. Shucks, we still have people thinking hardtails are the bomb in this age of suspension!]

Where I can really see the advantage of this technology is for gravity racing. There's not as much need to fiddle with pressures, because as low as you can go without the sidewalls squirming and without pinch-flatting is generally the rule. Rolling resistance and traction issues better addressed with tread patterns and rubber compounds. I'd like to try out a set on the rear; that's where I heap 90% of my wheel/tire abuse.