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  1. #1
    Senior Member Drunken Chicken's Avatar
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    Hi all, I have a friend who'll be ordering from a German website and he's asked me if I want anything from there. They have Camelbaks at decent prices ('05 at 60 euros and the '06 at 75 euros).
    The questions are:
    1) What is the difference between the two years? Is it worth the extra 15 euros? Bear in mind I'm always short on cash and I'm always happy to pay less if it'll still work well.
    2) Would I be able to fit a pump, multitool, spoke tool, tire lever, spare tube, a mobile, a wallet and a sweatshirt in it?

    Thanks a lot,
    -DC

    ANOTER QUESTION: (post #20)
    Last edited by Drunken Chicken; 02-26-06 at 09:44 AM.
    2005 Ironhorse 7.3
    2005 Specialized Hardrock Sport

  2. #2
    Senior Member Tag1's Avatar
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    The 05's are getting blown-out on a few sites right now. I just ordered one in fact, from campmor.com. I can't compare it to the 06, but I'll let you know how I like it when it gets here...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunken Chicken
    Hi all, I have a friend who'll be ordering from a German website and he's asked me if I want anything from there. They have Camelbaks at decent prices ('05 at 60 euros and the '06 at 75 euros).
    The questions are:
    1) What is the difference between the two years? Is it worth the extra 15 euros? Bear in mind I'm always short on cash and I'm always happy to pay less if it'll still work well.
    2) Would I be able to fit a pump, multitool, spoke tool, tire lever, spare tube, a mobile, a wallet and a sweatshirt in it?

    Thanks a lot,
    -DC
    The '05s look like they just took the Powerpuff Girls graphics off a line designed for retarted Amazon special olympians. If you look close enough, you should still be able to find '04 models out there that will satisfy your cheapness.

    The '06 models have updated styling. They have also played with all the pocket configurations across all the lines as well. I think they're improvents. Just remember that even the Mule has "more cargo space", it still really does not have much at all when compared to a cheap ass $15 backpack you can buy at Wal-Mart. If you actually want to carry something in your pack, consider a HAWG.

    The Transalp was killed after the 2004 season. It was replaced by something orange and ugly and it wasn't updated for the 2006 season.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Drunken Chicken's Avatar
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    Thanks for the posts, guys. I took a very quick peek at the MULEs in my LBS half an hour ago (was in a hurry) and to be honest I was surprised at the size of the '05 MULE, wasn't very big at all, I can't imagine it with 3L of water inside the reservoir... The '06 seemed bigger, maybe big enough...
    As for the cheapass bags you can buy at a department store, been there, done that:
    Comfortable as hell, cheap (18 euros, no water reservoir though), 4/5 zips crapped out on me in 3 months, 2/2 clips that go across your chest that hold the bag in position have cracked in half a year. I am not hard on the bag at all and I've never been "aggressive" with the zips, trying to pull them closed when the bag is too full.
    2005 Ironhorse 7.3
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    The 2006 is only 50cu inches or so bigger than the 2005. Basically 1/8 bigger than last year's model, so not a huge difference. willsmith why do you think the 2005s look girly? One is all black you know...

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    Senior Member Tag1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willtsmith_nwi
    The '05s look like they just took the Powerpuff Girls graphics off a line designed for retarted Amazon special olympians.




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    Are you saying they're fine or they look bad,Tag1? I ordered the orange one from campmor myself and I don't think I'll be ashamed to wear it on the trails or anything.

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    Senior Member Tag1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leonardotmnt
    Are you saying they're fine or they look bad,Tag1? I ordered the orange one from campmor myself and I don't think I'll be ashamed to wear it on the trails or anything.
    Read my first post...

    I ordered the green, can't wait to get it and check it out. Then again, powerpuff girls and the special olympics ARE my two favorite non-MTB-related interests, so...

    Also, there's a certain sense of irony in misspelling "********", isn't there?

  9. #9
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    Also, there's a certain sense of irony in misspelling "********", isn't there?[/QUOTE]

    I noticed that myself I actually won a Powerpuff Girl from one of those crane games once. I believe it was the blue one. I'll have to send her your way

  10. #10
    I can't find my pants mirona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunken Chicken
    Hi all, I have a friend who'll be ordering from a German website and he's asked me if I want anything from there. They have Camelbaks at decent prices ('05 at 60 euros and the '06 at 75 euros).
    The questions are:
    1) What is the difference between the two years? Is it worth the extra 15 euros? Bear in mind I'm always short on cash and I'm always happy to pay less if it'll still work well.
    2) Would I be able to fit a pump, multitool, spoke tool, tire lever, spare tube, a mobile, a wallet and a sweatshirt in it?

    Thanks a lot,
    -DC
    I have the '05 and I can tell you that you'd be able to carry all of those things with room to spare.

  11. #11
    Wood Licker Maelstrom's Avatar
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    I saw the 06 release at crankworx last year. The biggest difference is in the back plate. They have a newer system which allows for signifigantly improved air flow between your back and the camleback. I believe, if I remember the sales pitch, that there was also improved insulation to better keep the water cold.

    Cheers

  12. #12
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    I've got the green one. Looks good. Also carries all the stuff I've ever wanted to. Chicken, you'll easily be able to carry your list in it, and throw a rain jacket it as well. If anyone thinks you need more carrying cpacity then they're just carrying to much ****, or should get a rack and some paniers.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tag1



    It's true that they didn't mess up the '05 Mules quite as much as they did the other lines. Check these out.





    And the hideous Ventoux:



    But check out the '06 models.





    I got into Camelbaks when there material was still primarily canvas. I have a Mule from the 90s and it just looked like it belongs outdoors.

    I think they started to experiment with different materials to make the packs lighter. Worse, I think they tried to unisex the look of their packs. They started using pastels and light grays instead of solids, dark greys and BLACK, BLACK, BLACK. The styling also got "puffier", kind of like the look of a silk that had been stuffed.

    Personally, I find the newest stylings much "edgier". The rounded puffies are out as well as the pastels and light grey. Though, you can still find these color schemes on all the "womens fit" packs like the "Dream".

    Last edited by willtsmith_nwi; 02-25-06 at 07:33 PM. Reason: Adding a blurb ...

  14. #14
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    Luckily it's on my back so I can't see it. Therefore it doesnt' exist Actually I do like the newer ones more but looks alone weren't enough to justify me spending twice as much so I got the '05.

  15. #15
    Junior Member Mookout's Avatar
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    06's look pretty hot, I'm getting one

  16. #16
    Hazardous Taerom's Avatar
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    I agree, the all black 06 mule looks so cool. I have the black/grey 04 model.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Drunken Chicken's Avatar
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    Hmm, so it looks like the differences from 05 -> 06 are improvements. I also like the thought of having a padded, weatherproof pocket, although since I don't have an MP3 I'd be using it for my mobile.
    2005 Ironhorse 7.3
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  18. #18
    Junior Member Mookout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunken Chicken
    Hmm, so it looks like the differences from 05 -> 06 are improvements. I also like the thought of having a padded, weatherproof pocket, although since I don't have an MP3 I'd be using it for my mobile.

    You'd think theyd have one for both though right?

  19. #19
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    There are a few improvements and they look better for sure. It just ends up coming down to whether the new one is worth twice as much as last year's model. For me it wasn't but I also wanted more money to spend on the bike I'm getting so I had to factor that in.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Drunken Chicken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leonardotmnt
    There are a few improvements and they look better for sure. It just ends up coming down to whether the new one is worth twice as much as last year's model. For me it wasn't but I also wanted more money to spend on the bike I'm getting so I had to factor that in.
    I'm pretty sure now that if I get one of them it'll be the 2006 (only 15 euros more).

    Another question:
    Would this toolbox be enough for the complete assembly and disassembly of a bike? (in other words, does it have all the tools I'd ever need for the bike?)

    40 euros
    Here's a description (in German) of what the box contains (free translation didn't help much at all):
    * 8/9/10 mm Nuss
    * Schraubenzieher mit Adapter für BitaufnahmeSchraubenzieher Bits 4 Stück(2 verschiedene Kreuz und 2 verschiedene Schlitz)
    * O förmiger Speichenspanner mit den größen 10 - 15
    * Kurbelabzieher
    * verstellbares Innenlagerwerkzeug
    * Nabenkonusschlüssel 13/14/15/16mm
    * Engländer Maulschlüssel bis 6mm
    * Maulschlüssel 8mm/10mm
    * 3 Reifenhebel
    * Inbusset: 2 mm/2.5 mm/3 mm/4 mm/5 mm/6 mm
    * Innenlagerwerkzeug
    * Steuersatzschlüssel 30/32/36/40mm
    * Klemmring Schlüssel
    * Pedalschlüssel 15/16mm und 15/17mm
    * Kettennieter
    * Flickzeug
    * Kettenpeitsche
    * Freilaufschlüssel
    * 8mm Inbusschlüssel mit 1/2 Zoll Adapter
    * Kreuzschraubendreher
    2005 Ironhorse 7.3
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunken Chicken
    I'm pretty sure now that if I get one of them it'll be the 2006 (only 15 euros more).

    Another question:
    Would this toolbox be enough for the complete assembly and disassembly of a bike? (in other words, does it have all the tools I'd ever need for the bike?)
    This toolkit is available with many different names, but I think it's LIFU who actually makes it. I bought mine from PricePoint it was LIFU one year, than they branded it Sette-Torx.

    The short answer is ... YES. This has everything you will likely need.

    The long answer is that
    a) The spoke wrench sucks, buy a good one.
    b) The cassette tool is better than anything you'll buy from Park.
    c) The crank-puller is compact and excellent. I found it easier to use than a Park.
    d) The chain tool is cheapish. But if you're smart, you'll use Powerlinks anyway.

    You will need your bike shop to install your headset for you. And if you're using external BB cranks, you will have to buy a special wrench for that that's not included.

    These are NOT shop quality tools. But for the frequency of use with a home mechanic, they are a cheap way to form a backbone to your wrenching career. You'll likely have to fill in a few pieces at the bike shop (and the hardware store, cable cutters/torx/allen stuff are cheap there). If you bought the same kit from Park or Pedro's it would cost you well over $100.

    By all means, get one.
    Last edited by willtsmith_nwi; 02-26-06 at 11:50 AM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by leonardotmnt
    There are a few improvements and they look better for sure. It just ends up coming down to whether the new one is worth twice as much as last year's model. For me it wasn't but I also wanted more money to spend on the bike I'm getting so I had to factor that in.
    If someone GAVE me an '05 Camelbak, I'd probably wear it. But I'd gladly spend $20 more for something I'm going to be using for 4-5 years.

    I think I used by last Mule for about 5 years. It's still in excellent shape. It's just too small for my needs.

    Of course, I'll have to see some of these new Mules in person ;-) But I really like my '04 Camelbak HAWG. I was quick to buy one when they were clearing them out as you can tell I absoluetly loath the '05 styling.

    I would again warn buyers to consider their "packing" needs. Even the newer, roomier Mules really don't have much storage space. It has space for tools and a few things that are long and flat. Jackets and anything else remotely bulky is a VERY, VERY TIGHT squeeze if your bladder is full.

    If you're the type who likes to carry a med-kit, a couple spare tubes, a pack-saw, jacket, wipes and everything else that floats around on on the "standard packing list", you should really consider a HAWG.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Drunken Chicken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willtsmith_nwi
    This toolkit is available with many different names, but I think it's LIFU who actually makes it. I bought mine from PricePoint it was LIFU one year, than they branded it Sette-Torx.

    The short answer is ... YES. This has everything you will likely need.

    The long answer is that
    a) The spoke wrench sucks, buy a good one.
    b) The cassette tool is better than anything you'll buy from Park.
    c) The crank-puller is compact and excellent. I found it easier to use than a Park.
    d) The chain tool is cheapish. But if you're smart, you'll use Powerlinks anyway.

    You will need your bike shop to install your headset for you. And if you're using external BB cranks, you will have to by a special wrench for that that's not included.

    These are NOT shop quality tools. But for the frequency of use with a home mechanic, they are a cheap way to form a backbone to your wrenching career. You'll likely have to fill in a few pieces at the bike shop (and the hardware store, cable cutters/torx/allen stuff are cheap there). If you bought the same kit from Park or Pedro's it would cost you well over $100.

    By all means, get one.
    Thanks a bunch for the detailed answer! As for the long answers:
    1) I've already got a spoke wrench, it seems pretty OK to me.
    2) & 3) Good to hear!
    4) Will be using Powerlinks, I can't use a chaintool anyway, last time I took apart a Shimano chain it took me (no kidding) an hour and a half to reattach it.

    I'm not worried about the headset. I'll be using this as a home mechanic so I will only be servicing once in a while but I'm hoping to save some money over the outrageous price of the LBS's servicing (30 euros an hour, c'mon... and the end result isn't even that great). I'm not sure if I have a cablecutter already but I do have a T25 Torx and some allen keys.

    Any idea on how to take apart or service a "Shimano LP-28, square taper, 68 x 113mm, sealed cartridge" bottom bracket? If it is serviceable, can I do it with the above mentioned toolbox?
    2005 Ironhorse 7.3
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  24. #24
    Wood Licker Maelstrom's Avatar
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    I would give some other companies a look to. Ogio is an amazing euro company with some good product. I have used their snowboarding bag for 2 years now. Holds everything you could possibly want and more (my full face )

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunken Chicken

    Any idea on how to take apart or service a "Shimano LP-28, square taper, 68 x 113mm, sealed cartridge" bottom bracket? If it is serviceable, can I do it with the above mentioned toolbox?

    Well, if you bottom bracket is creaking, you likely have to just tighten up the bottom bracket cups (put some teflon pipe fitting tape on the threads, that will help). If the crank arms are "wiggling" (and the crank bolts are tightened correctly (pray they are, if not your cranks and bottom bracket are finished with square taper)) than you will have to replace the bottom bracket.

    All the tools you need for either of these tasks are in the toolkit (crank puller & bottom bracket tool). Though, if you have a long angle ended socket wrench, this will help greatly. While removing crank bolts, you can just pivot the wrench out of the way. And it also comes in handy on bottom brackets as your wrench can get pretty close to the tubes. It's nice to pull that wrench out a little towards yourself so you're not rapping your knuckles.

    Many of the tools in that kit fit directly into socket wrenches. This is what I like so much about them, especially the cassette tool. The Park Cassette tools depend on an externally fitted wrench which is cumbersome as you cannot apply any inward pressure to keep the tool inside of the lockring. If you look at ANY Park lockring that's been used extensively (even the ones with the pins), you'll find that most of the are stripped. If you apply inward pressure on a park, your box wrench will just slip over the cassette tool and you have to start over again.

    Another word of warning, if you plan on servicing your hubs (assuming they're cone and cup), I would go buy Park or Pedros cone wrenches. The one in the life kits have "two in one" heads that just do not inspire confidence.

    If you add up the value of the "good" tools (Crank Puller, Cassette, Bottom Bracket, Pedal Wrench, Crank-Bolt wrench, tire levers, patch kit, Chain Whip, ball headed allens, small adjustable wrench) vs the Park equivalent though, you'll find the kit is a super value.

    Finally, I highly recommend the Park Tools mini-chain brute. I don't put chains back together anymore, I just powerlink them together. But when you're sizing a chain or recovering from a broken chain (remember to bring your extra powerlinks) you need to remove links. The Park Mini-Brute does the job on the trail or anywhere.

    Finally, I'll agree with you about the quality of service from bike shops. I've had some good mechanics and some bad mechanics, and it shows. I just got sicking of leaving my bike at a shop for 3 days only to have to adjust stuff when they were done. Sometimes, they don't have the courtesy to mark my seatpost position and reset it when they were done test riding it.

    Honestly, the WORST thing that I've experienced is having them use spray on chain lubes with a DISC BRAKE bicycle. The lube ends up all over the rotor and then it seeps into the brake pads. The result is brakes that do not work ... AT ALL. That and when they don't bother tightening skewers and crank bolts properly.

    No thank you to all that. I do my own service as much as possible now. I'm not gambling which mech I'm getting, the owner or the 16 year old kid. Working on bikes IS NOT that hard, you just need the tools. There are no more cranks falling off my bike. And no more mechs telling me I need to check bolts before every ride.
    Last edited by willtsmith_nwi; 02-26-06 at 12:26 PM.

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