Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Mountain Biking Mountain biking is one of the fastest growing sports in the world. Check out this forum to discuss the latest tips, tricks, gear and equipment in the world of mountain biking.

User Tag List

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-19-06, 06:40 PM   #1
Hank Rearden
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Hank Rearden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 488
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Legally ride on private property.

Yes, it's true. You can legally ride on private property. It's your right to travel on trails on someone else's property. Like this:



Or, how about legally riding in a National Park, on any trail? Like this:

(the rider is the orange speck, middle left)

Some countries give their citizens rights that are unimaginable to most folks living in North America.

(DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME)

p.s. Yes, I can be spelling "legally" but I cannot be editing da subjective line
Hank Rearden is offline  
Old 08-19-06, 07:06 PM   #2
Siu Blue Wind
Flowers for mom
 
Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 11,013
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 153 Post(s)
An old man in my area owned a lot of acreage here. I mean hills and hills. Over time, they built a commuter route through it and many many cars use it to cut through to get to the other side. He owned the land on both sides of that road, but do you think he still owned the property the actual road is ON? He has since passed on and his daughter sold it off to development - but I have always wondered about that.
Siu Blue Wind is offline  
Old 08-19-06, 07:30 PM   #3
Dannihilator
User Title
 
Dannihilator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Annandale, New Jersey
Bikes: 2014 Surly Steamroller, 1989 Nishiki Altron
Posts: 19,423
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
As always great pics.
Dannihilator is offline  
Old 08-19-06, 09:41 PM   #4
iamlucky13
Footballus vita est
 
iamlucky13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Bikes: Trek 4500, Kona Dawg
Posts: 2,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind
An old man in my area owned a lot of acreage here. I mean hills and hills. Over time, they built a commuter route through it and many many cars use it to cut through to get to the other side. He owned the land on both sides of that road, but do you think he still owned the property the actual road is ON? He has since passed on and his daughter sold it off to development - but I have always wondered about that.
In the US, if someone else uses it for seven years (I think) and he does nothing to enforce his ownership or be productive with it, that other person may be able to claim the land through adverse posession.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Rearden
Some countries give their citizens rights that are unimaginable to most folks living in North America.
...but at the cost of the property rights of the owners. If I had a piece of property like that, I'd be glad to carve some trails across it, but it should be the property owner's perogative, and guests should ask permission. Noting your username, I'd think Ayn Rand would tend to agree.

Awesome pics though. Pete Fagerlin has an awesome collection of ride videos and pictures. I'm more than a little bit jealous of the places he's been.
__________________
"The internet is a place where absolutely nothing happens. You need to take advantage of that." ~ Strong Bad
iamlucky13 is offline  
Old 08-19-06, 09:45 PM   #5
FF 6800
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Long Beach, California
Bikes: 2005 Specialized hardrock pro... pike426, e.13 drs, fsa gap crank, formula k24's, and some more/2006 Scattante R-660 easton circuit wheels.
Posts: 594
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
thats cool to know, awesome pics hank
FF 6800 is offline  
Old 08-19-06, 10:32 PM   #6
cryptid01
one less horse
 
cryptid01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: East Jesus NY
Bikes: are better than yours
Posts: 5,600
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamlucky13
In the US, if someone else uses it for seven years (I think) and he does nothing to enforce his ownership or be productive with it, that other person may be able to claim the land through adverse posession.
The statutory time period varies from state to state, and is but one of many requirements for a claim of adverse possesion to ripen into fee title.

Happens very rarely these days.

Last edited by cryptid01; 08-19-06 at 10:54 PM.
cryptid01 is offline  
Old 08-19-06, 10:35 PM   #7
WannaGetGood
Commited Suicide
 
WannaGetGood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Abbotsford.BC
Bikes: 2001 Kona Stuff & 2004 Rocky Mountain Switch SL
Posts: 2,416
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Awsome pictures. We kina have the same thing here too. The mountain that we ride on is private property, but he lets us use the land.
WannaGetGood is offline  
Old 08-19-06, 10:36 PM   #8
cryptid01
one less horse
 
cryptid01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: East Jesus NY
Bikes: are better than yours
Posts: 5,600
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind
An old man in my area owned a lot of acreage here. I mean hills and hills. Over time, they built a commuter route through it and many many cars use it to cut through to get to the other side. He owned the land on both sides of that road, but do you think he still owned the property the actual road is ON? He has since passed on and his daughter sold it off to development - but I have always wondered about that.
If the people used it for long enough, there may have been enough evidence to grant an easement through prescriptive use.

He still owned the property, regardless.
cryptid01 is offline  
Old 08-19-06, 11:01 PM   #9
Siu Blue Wind
Flowers for mom
 
Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 11,013
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 153 Post(s)
hmmm. Okay. Thanks guys.

He was a stubborn old coot and didn't like authority. That's why I was surprised he didn't fuss as much as he did over little things. A lot of people didn't like him and he was in the news alot for being a pain. He was so crotchety that he would make me laugh. He was cool though. I liked Mr. Smith.
Siu Blue Wind is offline  
Old 08-19-06, 11:55 PM   #10
Hank Rearden
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Hank Rearden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 488
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastro
If the people used it for long enough, there may have been enough evidence to grant an easement through prescriptive use.

He still owned the property, regardless.
I've had to deal with this same situation on my daily commute. Just up the street is a "private road" that stretches about 100 yards. There is one caustic soccer mommy who has told me that I can't walk my dog (access to loacl trail) or ride my bike there since it is "private" (despite lack of signage and continuous use by the public for eight plus years).

Trying to explain a "prescriptive easement" to her was like trying to explain the theory of evolution to a rabid Bible thumper.
Hank Rearden is offline  
Old 08-20-06, 12:16 AM   #11
Siu Blue Wind
Flowers for mom
 
Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 11,013
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 153 Post(s)
So if there is an easement on the property, who is responsible for the cleanliness of the area that butts up to the edge of the road? Mr. Smith would have old metal barrels and some junk along the edge but refused to move it because it was "my property and I do damn well what I want with it". Although it may have been a safety concern, there was still enough room for a stalled car to pull over. The county and Mr. Smith went back and forth about this for years, at least 12 if I remember well. It was never resolved until after his death when his daughter just had it cleaned up.
Siu Blue Wind is offline  
Old 08-20-06, 06:17 AM   #12
apclassic9
Caustic Soccer Mom
 
apclassic9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Millstone WV
Bikes:
Posts: 1,760
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
It is NOT your right to travel on POSTED private property. The definition of "posted", of course, will vary from state to state. In WV, "posted" can be actual "no trespassing" signs, or merely 1 strand of fence. Also, in WV, one might be arrested by a Conservation Officer (game warden) for being on private land unless one has written permission from the landowner on thier person. The courtesy issue aside, I would suggest checking the laws and regulation for your state, and speaking to the landowner before you traipse across someone elses land.... it's a major liability issue for the lamdowner if you get hurt!
apclassic9 is offline  
Old 08-20-06, 08:49 AM   #13
JagdNeun
Uh oh...
 
JagdNeun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Shenandoah Valley, Virginia
Bikes: Giant, Rainier
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Virginia is the same os WVA as listed above. Im not all that well traveled, but PA. sure has a nice system of open hunting, biking, hiking, or whatever access. Unless it's posted, it's open.
JagdNeun is offline  
Old 08-20-06, 10:06 AM   #14
cryptid01
one less horse
 
cryptid01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: East Jesus NY
Bikes: are better than yours
Posts: 5,600
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind
So if there is an easement on the property, who is responsible for the cleanliness of the area that butts up to the edge of the road?
The property owner would be responsible for complying with any "cleanliness" ordinances that may exist on the local level.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind
Mr. Smith would have old metal barrels and some junk along the edge but refused to move it because it was "my property and I do damn well what I want with it".
And he was well within his rights to say that. "Mr. Smith" may have been smarter than you thought - by tacitly granting permission to the parties crossing his property, he ensured there could not be an easement created by prescription, insofar as "hostile use" is a requisite for an adverse possesion claim.


Oh, and Hank Rearden, thanks for the primer on Scandanavian real property law. Great shots as usual.
cryptid01 is offline  
Old 08-20-06, 10:18 AM   #15
Bike Lover
Should be riding
 
Bike Lover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: S.E. Michigan
Bikes: C-dale- moutain, Pedal Force RS- Campy Record, Quiring Ti XTR, Red line Monocog, S E F@r
Posts: 1,602
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Rearden
Yes, it's true. You can legally ride on private property. It's your right to travel on trails on someone else's property. Like this:

Or, how about legally riding in a National Park, on any trail? Like this:

Some countries give their citizens rights that are unimaginable to most folks living in North America.

(DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME)

p.s. Yes, I can be spelling "legally" but I cannot be editing da subjective line
What exactly is subjective and what line are you speaking about?

And BTW- the state is usually in control of these right, not federal, obviously unless it's federal property, which I shouldn't have to comment on. I would've thought you knew that. If you come to Michigan, you can go where ever you'd like unless it's clearly marked for no trespassers/fenced off. We're an out doors state though. Talk to your local legislature.
Bike Lover is offline  
Old 08-20-06, 10:41 AM   #16
Hank Rearden
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Hank Rearden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 488
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by apclassic9
It is NOT your right to travel on POSTED private property.
It WAS my right to travel on POSTED private property in the first picture.

Of course, YMMV.
Hank Rearden is offline  
Old 08-20-06, 10:46 AM   #17
Siu Blue Wind
Flowers for mom
 
Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 11,013
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 153 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastro
The property owner would be responsible for complying with any "cleanliness" ordinances that may exist on the local level.




And he was well within his rights to say that. "Mr. Smith" may have been smarter than you thought - by tacitly granting permission to the parties crossing his property, he ensured there could not be an easement created by prescription, insofar as "hostile use" is a requisite for an adverse possesion claim.

Ahhhhhhh.........Okay I get it! Hey Gastro thanks for teaching me this!
Siu Blue Wind is offline  
Old 08-20-06, 10:46 AM   #18
Hank Rearden
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Hank Rearden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 488
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bike Lover
What exactly is subjective and what line are you speaking about?
I have a typo in the subject line. Get it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bike Lover
And BTW- the state is usually in control of these right, not federal, obviously unless it's federal property, which I shouldn't have to comment on.
The national government dictates the property rights in my pictures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bike Lover
I would've thought you knew that.
That's funny.

Maybe I should have put the following bits in a larger font, different color, and in bold? Heck, I'll do that now.


Some countries give their citizens rights that are unimaginable to most folks living in North America.

(DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME)
Hank Rearden is offline  
Old 08-20-06, 01:51 PM   #19
apclassic9
Caustic Soccer Mom
 
apclassic9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Millstone WV
Bikes:
Posts: 1,760
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Unimaginable? Glad to live in the US where, yeah, landowners still have some rights! I pay the property taxes on my property, yet I can be sued when some a**hole decides to trespass on said property & injures him or herself.... In WV, the legislature has made it harder for people to sue when they do not have permission to be on private land, but it still happens.

My kids bike, and they have 135 acres to roam about, plus the neighbor's 103 acres. but they know to ask permission to go on other people's private property. If I don't know you (and even if I do), you are best advised to stop at the house & ask if you can use my land.
apclassic9 is offline  
Old 08-20-06, 02:01 PM   #20
Hank Rearden
Banned.
Thread Starter
 
Hank Rearden's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 488
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by apclassic9
Unimaginable?
Your strident response proves my point.
Hank Rearden is offline  
Old 08-20-06, 02:10 PM   #21
mcoine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: southern oregon
Bikes:
Posts: 2,631
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bike Lover
And BTW- the state is usually in control of these right, not federal, obviously unless it's federal property, which I shouldn't have to comment on. I would've thought you knew that. If you come to Michigan, you can go where ever you'd like unless it's clearly marked for no trespassers/fenced off. We're an out doors state though. Talk to your local legislature.

Out west there is a lot more federal land, for instance, Oregon is about 50% federal land, and a lot of it is off limits to mountain bikes.
mcoine is offline  
Old 08-20-06, 03:36 PM   #22
iamthetas
Senior Member
 
iamthetas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: colonial heights Va
Bikes: Devinci Guzzler, 04 Canadian version
Posts: 1,200
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
trespass on my land and I will use my Virginia right to shoot you in the ass for attempted criminal intent of my property. you see in the commonwealth of Va. once you step more than 1 foot onto a posted area you are considered to have criminal intent and the owner has the right to protect his property from criminal intent. you may sue me for the said damage to your ass but you will lose.
I am also a "Bible thumper" and though I understand your "theory" of evolution I disagree with it and will , just like you trespassing, allow you to find out the truth on your own. I have no need or desire to argue with you over facts. I will let consequences deal with themselves.
iamthetas is offline  
Old 08-20-06, 04:01 PM   #23
Seggybop
o.O
 
Seggybop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 576
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthetas
trespass on my land and I will use my Virginia right to shoot you in the ass for attempted criminal intent of my property. you see in the commonwealth of Va. once you step more than 1 foot onto a posted area you are considered to have criminal intent and the owner has the right to protect his property from criminal intent. you may sue me for the said damage to your ass but you will lose.
I am also a "Bible thumper" and though I understand your "theory" of evolution I disagree with it and will , just like you trespassing, allow you to find out the truth on your own. I have no need or desire to argue with you over facts. I will let consequences deal with themselves.
You'd shoot another human being because they made the most grievous mistake of stepping onto a piece of ground that some papers say are yours? I didn't know Jesus was cool with that kind of thing; learn something new all the time.
Seggybop is offline  
Old 08-20-06, 04:42 PM   #24
mtnbiker66
Old School Rad
 
mtnbiker66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: The old Mountains
Bikes: Blur LT
Posts: 8,212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Here we go...................
__________________
Like a circus monkey on a stolen Harley......
mtnbiker66 is offline  
Old 08-20-06, 04:56 PM   #25
Newfie Funkwell
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by apclassic9
Unimaginable? Glad to live in the US where, yeah, landowners still have some rights! I pay the property taxes on my property, yet I can be sued when some a**hole decides to trespass on said property & injures him or herself.... In WV, the legislature has made it harder for people to sue when they do not have permission to be on private land, but it still happens.

My kids bike, and they have 135 acres to roam about, plus the neighbor's 103 acres. but they know to ask permission to go on other people's private property. If I don't know you (and even if I do), you are best advised to stop at the house & ask if you can use my land.
Just the fact that people are willing to sue somebody when they injure themselves on someone's land says a great deal about society in general, why must we always be out to get someone and to make a scam, quite pathetic.
Newfie Funkwell is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:26 AM.