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  1. #1
    Banned. Hank Rearden's Avatar
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    Legally ride on private property.

    Yes, it's true. You can legally ride on private property. It's your right to travel on trails on someone else's property. Like this:



    Or, how about legally riding in a National Park, on any trail? Like this:

    (the rider is the orange speck, middle left)

    Some countries give their citizens rights that are unimaginable to most folks living in North America.

    (DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME)

    p.s. Yes, I can be spelling "legally" but I cannot be editing da subjective line

  2. #2
    Hey guyz? Guyz? Wait up!! Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
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    An old man in my area owned a lot of acreage here. I mean hills and hills. Over time, they built a commuter route through it and many many cars use it to cut through to get to the other side. He owned the land on both sides of that road, but do you think he still owned the property the actual road is ON? He has since passed on and his daughter sold it off to development - but I have always wondered about that.

  3. #3
    To be continued Dannihilator's Avatar
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    As always great pics.
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  4. #4
    Footballus vita est iamlucky13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind
    An old man in my area owned a lot of acreage here. I mean hills and hills. Over time, they built a commuter route through it and many many cars use it to cut through to get to the other side. He owned the land on both sides of that road, but do you think he still owned the property the actual road is ON? He has since passed on and his daughter sold it off to development - but I have always wondered about that.
    In the US, if someone else uses it for seven years (I think) and he does nothing to enforce his ownership or be productive with it, that other person may be able to claim the land through adverse posession.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Rearden
    Some countries give their citizens rights that are unimaginable to most folks living in North America.
    ...but at the cost of the property rights of the owners. If I had a piece of property like that, I'd be glad to carve some trails across it, but it should be the property owner's perogative, and guests should ask permission. Noting your username, I'd think Ayn Rand would tend to agree.

    Awesome pics though. Pete Fagerlin has an awesome collection of ride videos and pictures. I'm more than a little bit jealous of the places he's been.
    "The internet is a place where absolutely nothing happens. You need to take advantage of that." ~ Strong Bad

  5. #5
    Senior Member
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    thats cool to know, awesome pics hank
    Trance music is okay...
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  6. #6
    one less horse cryptid01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamlucky13
    In the US, if someone else uses it for seven years (I think) and he does nothing to enforce his ownership or be productive with it, that other person may be able to claim the land through adverse posession.
    The statutory time period varies from state to state, and is but one of many requirements for a claim of adverse possesion to ripen into fee title.

    Happens very rarely these days.
    Last edited by cryptid01; 08-19-06 at 11:54 PM.

  7. #7
    Commited Suicide WannaGetGood's Avatar
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    Awsome pictures. We kina have the same thing here too. The mountain that we ride on is private property, but he lets us use the land.

  8. #8
    one less horse cryptid01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind
    An old man in my area owned a lot of acreage here. I mean hills and hills. Over time, they built a commuter route through it and many many cars use it to cut through to get to the other side. He owned the land on both sides of that road, but do you think he still owned the property the actual road is ON? He has since passed on and his daughter sold it off to development - but I have always wondered about that.
    If the people used it for long enough, there may have been enough evidence to grant an easement through prescriptive use.

    He still owned the property, regardless.

  9. #9
    Hey guyz? Guyz? Wait up!! Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
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    hmmm. Okay. Thanks guys.

    He was a stubborn old coot and didn't like authority. That's why I was surprised he didn't fuss as much as he did over little things. A lot of people didn't like him and he was in the news alot for being a pain. He was so crotchety that he would make me laugh. He was cool though. I liked Mr. Smith.

  10. #10
    Banned. Hank Rearden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gastro
    If the people used it for long enough, there may have been enough evidence to grant an easement through prescriptive use.

    He still owned the property, regardless.
    I've had to deal with this same situation on my daily commute. Just up the street is a "private road" that stretches about 100 yards. There is one caustic soccer mommy who has told me that I can't walk my dog (access to loacl trail) or ride my bike there since it is "private" (despite lack of signage and continuous use by the public for eight plus years).

    Trying to explain a "prescriptive easement" to her was like trying to explain the theory of evolution to a rabid Bible thumper.

  11. #11
    Hey guyz? Guyz? Wait up!! Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
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    So if there is an easement on the property, who is responsible for the cleanliness of the area that butts up to the edge of the road? Mr. Smith would have old metal barrels and some junk along the edge but refused to move it because it was "my property and I do damn well what I want with it". Although it may have been a safety concern, there was still enough room for a stalled car to pull over. The county and Mr. Smith went back and forth about this for years, at least 12 if I remember well. It was never resolved until after his death when his daughter just had it cleaned up.

  12. #12
    Caustic Soccer Mom apclassic9's Avatar
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    It is NOT your right to travel on POSTED private property. The definition of "posted", of course, will vary from state to state. In WV, "posted" can be actual "no trespassing" signs, or merely 1 strand of fence. Also, in WV, one might be arrested by a Conservation Officer (game warden) for being on private land unless one has written permission from the landowner on thier person. The courtesy issue aside, I would suggest checking the laws and regulation for your state, and speaking to the landowner before you traipse across someone elses land.... it's a major liability issue for the lamdowner if you get hurt!

  13. #13
    Uh oh... JagdNeun's Avatar
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    Virginia is the same os WVA as listed above. Im not all that well traveled, but PA. sure has a nice system of open hunting, biking, hiking, or whatever access. Unless it's posted, it's open.

  14. #14
    one less horse cryptid01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind
    So if there is an easement on the property, who is responsible for the cleanliness of the area that butts up to the edge of the road?
    The property owner would be responsible for complying with any "cleanliness" ordinances that may exist on the local level.


    Quote Originally Posted by Siu Blue Wind
    Mr. Smith would have old metal barrels and some junk along the edge but refused to move it because it was "my property and I do damn well what I want with it".
    And he was well within his rights to say that. "Mr. Smith" may have been smarter than you thought - by tacitly granting permission to the parties crossing his property, he ensured there could not be an easement created by prescription, insofar as "hostile use" is a requisite for an adverse possesion claim.


    Oh, and Hank Rearden, thanks for the primer on Scandanavian real property law. Great shots as usual.

  15. #15
    Should be riding Bike Lover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Rearden
    Yes, it's true. You can legally ride on private property. It's your right to travel on trails on someone else's property. Like this:

    Or, how about legally riding in a National Park, on any trail? Like this:

    Some countries give their citizens rights that are unimaginable to most folks living in North America.

    (DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME)

    p.s. Yes, I can be spelling "legally" but I cannot be editing da subjective line
    What exactly is subjective and what line are you speaking about?

    And BTW- the state is usually in control of these right, not federal, obviously unless it's federal property, which I shouldn't have to comment on. I would've thought you knew that. If you come to Michigan, you can go where ever you'd like unless it's clearly marked for no trespassers/fenced off. We're an out doors state though. Talk to your local legislature.
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  16. #16
    Banned. Hank Rearden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apclassic9
    It is NOT your right to travel on POSTED private property.
    It WAS my right to travel on POSTED private property in the first picture.

    Of course, YMMV.

  17. #17
    Hey guyz? Guyz? Wait up!! Siu Blue Wind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gastro
    The property owner would be responsible for complying with any "cleanliness" ordinances that may exist on the local level.




    And he was well within his rights to say that. "Mr. Smith" may have been smarter than you thought - by tacitly granting permission to the parties crossing his property, he ensured there could not be an easement created by prescription, insofar as "hostile use" is a requisite for an adverse possesion claim.

    Ahhhhhhh.........Okay I get it! Hey Gastro thanks for teaching me this!

  18. #18
    Banned. Hank Rearden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bike Lover
    What exactly is subjective and what line are you speaking about?
    I have a typo in the subject line. Get it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bike Lover
    And BTW- the state is usually in control of these right, not federal, obviously unless it's federal property, which I shouldn't have to comment on.
    The national government dictates the property rights in my pictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bike Lover
    I would've thought you knew that.
    That's funny.

    Maybe I should have put the following bits in a larger font, different color, and in bold? Heck, I'll do that now.


    Some countries give their citizens rights that are unimaginable to most folks living in North America.

    (DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME)

  19. #19
    Caustic Soccer Mom apclassic9's Avatar
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    Unimaginable? Glad to live in the US where, yeah, landowners still have some rights! I pay the property taxes on my property, yet I can be sued when some a**hole decides to trespass on said property & injures him or herself.... In WV, the legislature has made it harder for people to sue when they do not have permission to be on private land, but it still happens.

    My kids bike, and they have 135 acres to roam about, plus the neighbor's 103 acres. but they know to ask permission to go on other people's private property. If I don't know you (and even if I do), you are best advised to stop at the house & ask if you can use my land.

  20. #20
    Banned. Hank Rearden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apclassic9
    Unimaginable?
    Your strident response proves my point.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bike Lover
    And BTW- the state is usually in control of these right, not federal, obviously unless it's federal property, which I shouldn't have to comment on. I would've thought you knew that. If you come to Michigan, you can go where ever you'd like unless it's clearly marked for no trespassers/fenced off. We're an out doors state though. Talk to your local legislature.

    Out west there is a lot more federal land, for instance, Oregon is about 50% federal land, and a lot of it is off limits to mountain bikes.

  22. #22
    Senior Member iamthetas's Avatar
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    trespass on my land and I will use my Virginia right to shoot you in the ass for attempted criminal intent of my property. you see in the commonwealth of Va. once you step more than 1 foot onto a posted area you are considered to have criminal intent and the owner has the right to protect his property from criminal intent. you may sue me for the said damage to your ass but you will lose.
    I am also a "Bible thumper" and though I understand your "theory" of evolution I disagree with it and will , just like you trespassing, allow you to find out the truth on your own. I have no need or desire to argue with you over facts. I will let consequences deal with themselves.
    for the creation was subjected to futility,not willingly , but because of Him who subjected it in hope...that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Romans 8:20-29
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  23. #23
    o.O Seggybop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamthetas
    trespass on my land and I will use my Virginia right to shoot you in the ass for attempted criminal intent of my property. you see in the commonwealth of Va. once you step more than 1 foot onto a posted area you are considered to have criminal intent and the owner has the right to protect his property from criminal intent. you may sue me for the said damage to your ass but you will lose.
    I am also a "Bible thumper" and though I understand your "theory" of evolution I disagree with it and will , just like you trespassing, allow you to find out the truth on your own. I have no need or desire to argue with you over facts. I will let consequences deal with themselves.
    You'd shoot another human being because they made the most grievous mistake of stepping onto a piece of ground that some papers say are yours? I didn't know Jesus was cool with that kind of thing; learn something new all the time.
    mi yu mi yu

  24. #24
    Old School Rad mtnbiker66's Avatar
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    Here we go...................
    Like a circus monkey on a stolen Harley......

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by apclassic9
    Unimaginable? Glad to live in the US where, yeah, landowners still have some rights! I pay the property taxes on my property, yet I can be sued when some a**hole decides to trespass on said property & injures him or herself.... In WV, the legislature has made it harder for people to sue when they do not have permission to be on private land, but it still happens.

    My kids bike, and they have 135 acres to roam about, plus the neighbor's 103 acres. but they know to ask permission to go on other people's private property. If I don't know you (and even if I do), you are best advised to stop at the house & ask if you can use my land.
    Just the fact that people are willing to sue somebody when they injure themselves on someone's land says a great deal about society in general, why must we always be out to get someone and to make a scam, quite pathetic.

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