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Old 05-08-03, 02:31 PM   #1
jtown
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Full Suspension ROCKS!

Ok so some of you may know that I've had my new Stumpjumper FSR Comp for a few weeks now and I've put a few good rides on it and I must say the FS world kicks ass. Here are a few things for the hard tailers to think about ... (for those who care)

1. With FS you rarely lose traction in the rear going uphill. This is something I didn't expect, but works like a charm.

2. You can pretty much sit down while going downhill. No more ball jitters.

3. Not nearly as much vibration on your arms!

4. If you have lockouts, your bike will feel just like a rigid on the street. I was surprised at how different it rides with both shocks locked out.

5. Landing jumps is so smoooooooooooth.

6. One thing that kind of caught me by surprise one ride was when I was cornering pretty hard/fast and I hit a little rut in the ground. Since the front shock was compressed I lost traction as I went over the rut almost bailing.

7. Ride height is much higher than bike made 10 years ago. I'm still getting used to being so high on downhills.

8. Disc brakes kick ASS! I used to have to anticipate when to brake ... now I can just mash on them at the exact moment I need to slow down. Careful about going over the bars though.

Just some of my riding experiences in the past few weeks. I'm excited to go out everyday.
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Old 05-08-03, 03:02 PM   #2
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Wahoo! Another dual squishy convert!

I've been riding a dual squishy with hydraulic disc brakes for three years now - trying to convince all my riding buddies to upgrade. Each one that does...after a few rides - stands before me smacking their forehead saying "Why the heck didn't I do this before"!?
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Old 05-08-03, 06:08 PM   #3
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Ht Lover here. I understand the point to a dually but won't get one till I think my riding deserves it...

Point number 7 - ride height is higher...your bike must be setup funny. On dh you should be almost chopper style
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Old 05-08-03, 06:53 PM   #4
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Some things that suck about dual suspension:



1) A dual suspension bike will NEVER be as efficient as a hardtail

2) The front suspension may compress, but you have no rear shock to rebound while the front compresses, tossing you off the bike

3) You can out sprint everyone riding their 30+ pound full suspension

4) Your bike will ALWAYS weigh less than a dual suspension bike ever will



Granted, dual suspension has it's merit.. in fact I actually have one. But I end up riding my hardtail more than anything. At the end of the day the hardtail leaves me feeling much less worn out than my dual suspension does. But when the urban assault time comes around I'll be riding my dually.
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Old 05-08-03, 07:58 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jim311
Some things that suck about dual suspension:



1) A dual suspension bike will NEVER be as efficient as a hardtail
one word: Epic

2) The front suspension may compress, but you have no rear shock to rebound while the front compresses, tossing you off the bike This is BS

3) You can out sprint everyone riding their 30+ pound full suspension It's not the bike that is faster it is the person operating the bike.

4) Your bike will ALWAYS weigh less than a dual suspension bike ever will Done correctly a cf FS MTB could weigh as much as a hardtail.



Granted, dual suspension has it's merit.. in fact I actually have one. But I end up riding my hardtail more than anything. At the end of the day the hardtail leaves me feeling much less worn out than my dual suspension does. But when the urban assault time comes around I'll be riding my dually.
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Old 05-08-03, 08:09 PM   #6
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If you've never experienced the bucking of a FS bike when the front shock compresses and the rear rebounds you've never ridden a FS bike. In fact, the author of this thread even said it happened to him. I ride a FS, so I know. Not to mention I've read countless articles mentioning it.


Also, there's no way you can argue that a person with a hardtail against a person on a heavier dual suspension is going to lose in a sprint.. NO WAY.


And lastly... if your hardtail doesn't weigh less than an identically specced full suspension, you probably oughta find a lighter frame.
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Old 05-08-03, 08:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jim311
If you've never experienced the bucking of a FS bike when the front shock compresses and the rear rebounds you've never ridden a FS bike. In fact, the author of this thread even said it happened to him. I ride a FS, so I know. Not to mention I've read countless articles mentioning it.


Also, there's no way you can argue that a person with a hardtail against a person on a heavier dual suspension is going to lose in a sprint.. NO WAY.


And lastly... if your hardtail doesn't weigh less than an identically specced full suspension, you probably oughta find a lighter frame.
I ride FS, I have never noticed any bucking, maybee because I have it set to my preferences. Stiffer springs solve the problem right there. The sprint thing you mention is false, a FS bike provides better tracking and grip in exchange for weight. Thus it is the rider who makes the difference. I have equally specced bikes, 1 hardtail, 1 full suspension, my FS is quicker. As I said if you manage the weight of the components, a cf FS bike can weigh as much as a hardtail.
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Old 05-08-03, 10:12 PM   #8
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I think there is no point to convince anybody that one better then another. There is a bike for every style. Hard tail for XC, FS for DH, urban assault, FR. Road for road of course. Sure you can make a 30 footer on FS. And if you want you can even make it on a hard tail, but that hard tail is better be strong as hell. You can enter a road race and claim that your FSR has all traction road bike can wish for due to your full suspension, but there is no way you can actually compete with the speed of a road bike and itís weight and these are not the only factors. You canít just compare 2 bikes that are built for different uses. Thatís what I think.
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Old 05-08-03, 10:55 PM   #9
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This is NOT a hard concept to understand. It's common knowledge. When you hit the front brake, reguardless of how stiff you have your springs setup, the front WILL dive. And that same concept is compounded when the rear suspension of a bike rebounds, thus pushing the rear up and the front down.


Seriously.. there's no way a FS can weigh the same as a hardtail. If you build them both out of the same materials using the same technology obviously the FS is going to have more parts. Show me a FS frame that weighs less than 3 pounds. You said tracking from FS helps.. but not in a sprint. You'll be bobbing and bouncing while I'm pulling ahead on my HT. I've been riding a long time on both FS and HT.. I know what I'm talking about. I don't make this stuff up just to talk out of my ass.
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Old 05-08-03, 11:04 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jim311
This is NOT a hard concept to understand. It's common knowledge. When you hit the front brake, reguardless of how stiff you have your springs setup, the front WILL dive. And that same concept is compounded when the rear suspension of a bike rebounds, thus pushing the rear up and the front down.


Seriously.. there's no way a FS can weigh the same as a hardtail. If you build them both out of the same materials using the same technology obviously the FS is going to have more parts. Show me a FS frame that weighs less than 3 pounds. You said tracking from FS helps.. but not in a sprint. You'll be bobbing and bouncing while I'm pulling ahead on my HT. I've been riding a long time on both FS and HT.. I know what I'm talking about. I don't make this stuff up just to talk out of my ass.
That's why there is rear lock out, a simple thing, my xc fs is rigged with remote lock out. BTW, I can drop you fairly easily, ht or fs. Been riding for 19 years now, 7th year on a FS bike, been racing for 10. I will give hardtails one advantage, a hardtail is a much better urban bike and a better dirt jumper. I just enjoy my full suspension bikes better than my hardtails. I'm just debating just for debating.
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Old 05-09-03, 12:05 AM   #11
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We'll see about that, old man!

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Old 05-09-03, 12:11 AM   #12
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Originally posted by Jim311
We'll see about that, old man!

We will see about that.
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Old 05-09-03, 05:54 AM   #13
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HT rules! but then again that is my opinion. If i was on a bottomless budget i would probably have a second bike dually. But duallies need more servicing than HT (bushings. bearings etc) and i love simplicity so i love HTs.
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Old 05-09-03, 06:23 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by bikeCOLORADO
I've been riding a dual squishy with hydraulic disc brakes for three years now - trying to convince all my riding buddies to upgrade. Each one that does...after a few rides - stands before me smacking their forehead saying "Why the heck didn't I do this before"!?
Strange, that's what all the single speed converts do too!
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Old 05-09-03, 06:54 AM   #15
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wow ... didn't really mean to say one was better than the other. just my first experiences on a FS. =)
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Old 05-09-03, 07:48 AM   #16
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BTW, I can drop you fairly easily, ht or fs.
Ooooh, you're a tough typer!


Quote:
Been riding for 19 years now, 7th year on a FS bike, been racing for 10.
According to your profile, you were born in 1980. Riding a bigwheel doesn't count.


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Old 05-09-03, 08:58 AM   #17
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Bucking? I've never been bucked from either of my dualies in 3 years of riding.

The secret to buck prevention is proper setup...it's a fine balance with rebound control. You want to set it up so that it's fast/slow enough to bounce ONCE and return to normal position after riding flat off a curb. Too slow and the suspension will "pack up" when hitting successive bumps and you'll bottom out. Too fast and your suspension action is more like a springy pogo stick than a well tuned suspension.

Just as with so many other things in our human experience - it all boils down to personal preferences with HT or FS. Your primary riding terrain choice contributes heavily to your choice/preference as well.

I'm a diehard FS rider. I like VERY technical, rocky trails with ledges, lifts and corpses. There's certainly no arguing the fact that virtually ANY HT is more efficient AND lighter than my full suspension 32lb Freeride/XC bike! There's also no arguing the fact that to keep up with a lightweight stickboy on a lightweight HT bike - I've got to me MUCH stronger!
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Old 05-09-03, 10:14 AM   #18
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Originally posted by schnell
Ooooh, you're a tough typer!




According to your profile, you were born in 1980. Riding a bigwheel doesn't count.


Was on two wheels at the age of 4. I never had a big wheel.
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Old 05-09-03, 10:31 AM   #19
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So have I, and I don't have an attitude.

I haven't even pointed out the fact that I could drop you, even though it would be "extremely easy" for me.
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Old 05-09-03, 10:41 AM   #20
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So have I, and I don't have an attitude.

I haven't even pointed out the fact that I could drop you, even though it would be "extremely easy" for me.
I usually don't have an attitude. Just when I feel like it.
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Old 05-09-03, 11:07 AM   #21
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Yeah well...all of you could drop me...

Quote:
I'm a diehard FS rider. I like VERY technical, rocky trails with ledges, lifts and corpses. There's certainly no arguing the fact that virtually ANY HT is more efficient AND lighter than my full suspension 32lb Freeride/XC bike! There's also no arguing the fact that to keep up with a lightweight stickboy on a lightweight HT bike - I've got to me MUCH stronger
What is with all the super light bikes. My ht is heavier than that ...the dually I am looking at buying would be a minimum of 40 pounds haha
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Old 05-09-03, 11:24 AM   #22
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I consider sub 26lb a light bike!

Around Whistler BC (or maybe anywhere in Canda)...40lbs is probably considered an XC bike!
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Old 05-09-03, 11:29 AM   #23
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I consider sub 26lb a light bike!

Around Whistler BC (or maybe anywhere in Canda)...40lbs is probably considered an XC bike!
I was just kidding...I am also 260.. I need to loose weight before my bike does...

No just western canada...
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Old 05-09-03, 06:31 PM   #24
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Look at the title of the thread (Full Suspension Rocks) FSR BABY!!!
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Old 05-09-03, 06:34 PM   #25
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Look at the title of the thread (Full Suspension Rocks) FSR BABY!!!
Word.
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