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Old 02-09-07, 12:14 AM   #1
KtecR
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High engagement point Hubs

I've been doing some research on hubs with high engagement points and have narrowed my options to hadley and chris king. Both seem to have awesome reviews, but where can I get these components for the best price? CompetitiveCyclist has both, but they list their hadley as 108 engagement points and from what i've seen on this forum is that they have changed to 72 like CK. Does this mean CC is selling old (really old) hadley hubs?
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Old 02-09-07, 05:41 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by KtecR
I've been doing some research on hubs with high engagement points and have narrowed my options to hadley and chris king. Both seem to have awesome reviews, but where can I get these components for the best price? CompetitiveCyclist has both, but they list their hadley as 108 engagement points and from what i've seen on this forum is that they have changed to 72 like CK. Does this mean CC is selling old (really old) hadley hubs?
why not INDUSTRYnine (I9)? they have standard spoked hubs as well and i believe the choice to run 120 engagement or the choice to run less. or you can change at will by simply removing a group of pawls. i don't believe many people have the non-proprietary spoked hubs yet, so you could be one of the first! last i knew they were to be released last dec '06. so unless there was a hold-up.... they are not on the website. you need to call.


or Stealth with instant engagement. now i don't have much time on my Stealth yet because we keep getting bad weather. furthermore, i am not saying it is better to have instant or not or maybe it is even a con in certain instances. what i can say is that it appears to be on par with my I9 and Hadley as far as simple visual machining inspection. (...but i am not a machinist ) It is in fact silent. no clicks, just tires and ground...and there is no crank "backlash". it is instant via a "directional" needle bearing. Stealth refers to it as a clutch mechanism, i refer to it as a one-way needle bearing. it is the quietist, most advanced hub on the market.



Hadley might have older hubs which wouldn't be bad. to the best of my knowledge, it has been maybe two years or so. that is not that old. that is what suzanne @ hadley made it sound like. i don't think they made any changes other than an Al cassette body vs Ti on the older model and then the engagements points. if you can find an older Ti model i don't think you should feel it is outdated or anything.

Last edited by mx_599; 02-09-07 at 07:27 AM.
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Old 02-09-07, 11:00 AM   #3
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What are the prices of I9 and stealth (just rear hub or set)? I tried the I9 website and they didn't show any prices, just the products and dealers.

I like the idea of no sound (had that on my 20" BMX - was not instant engagement though) but as superficial as this may sound, I like hearing my MTB rolling. High engagement point hubs sound awesome when whizzing by
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Old 02-09-07, 11:09 AM   #4
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Does the stealth exist? I thought that was vapourware? Then again I stopped paying attention to hubs a couple of years ago so i might be well out of the loop

I am a big fan of hadley, bought one 2 years agoish and it is awesome.
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Old 02-09-07, 11:18 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by KtecR
What are the prices of I9 and stealth (just rear hub or set)? I tried the I9 website and they didn't show any prices, just the products and dealers.

I like the idea of no sound (had that on my 20" BMX - was not instant engagement though) but as superficial as this may sound, I like hearing my MTB rolling. High engagement point hubs sound awesome when whizzing by
not sure on I9 prices. i am sure around 250ish. they are not on site. you will have to call jeff at I9 to find availability.

here is link for stealth. i really like this company. i will get another one. at minimum, i was going to maybe get one for a cruiser bmx build to race.

http://www.trueprecision.net/

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Old 02-09-07, 11:21 AM   #6
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Man am I the only one who likes my hubs noisy. BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
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Old 02-09-07, 11:24 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by R. Danneskjöld
If you like noise, don't go with I9.

Buy Hadleys instead.
yeah i noticed this after i posted.

to OP:
go with what he is saying about noise. he has a lot more experience with the mentioned hubs. i thought i9 was considered loud. i guess i will see what loud really is after i lace up my hadleys.

is the noise so bad on the hadleys that i will regret it?
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Old 02-09-07, 11:28 AM   #8
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Does the stealth exist?
yes and the new improved mtb hub is either ready or almost. i just get the impression that the owner is in no hurry with the hubs...it sounds more like a side project at his machine shop.
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Old 02-09-07, 11:36 AM   #9
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yeah i noticed this after i posted.

to OP:
go with what he is saying about noise. he has a lot more experience with the mentioned hubs. i thought i9 was considered loud. i guess i will see what loud really is after i lace up my hadleys.

is the noise so bad on the hadleys that i will regret it?
Hadley sneaks up on you. If they are brand new, the first few weeks you will be like "what you talking about, these aren't loud"...a little while later, BAM....LOUD

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

I was very disapointed the first time I rode my hadley's haha
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Old 02-09-07, 11:37 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by mx_599
yes and the new improved mtb hub is either ready or almost. i just get the impression that the owner is in no hurry with the hubs...it sounds more like a side project at his machine shop.
hmmmm...side project companies scare me, I have dealt with them enough times that it rarely ends up working out long term. Thanks for the heads up I won't look at those hubs.
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Old 02-09-07, 11:38 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by mx_599
yes and the new improved mtb hub is either ready or almost.
Remember when I told you they were saying the same thing two years ago?

If your Hadley gets too loud for your liking, it's pretty easy to disassemble and relube the pawls. That'll quiet it down for a while.
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Old 02-09-07, 11:39 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Maelstrom
Hadley sneaks up on you. If they are brand new, the first few weeks you will be like "what you talking about, these aren't loud"...a little while later, BAM....LOUD

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

I was very disapointed the first time I rode my hadley's haha
so they get louder after the grease disperses or something?
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Old 02-09-07, 11:40 AM   #13
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hmmmm...side project companies scare me, I have dealt with them enough times that it rarely ends up working out long term. Thanks for the heads up I won't look at those hubs.
totally understandable concern.
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Old 02-09-07, 11:41 AM   #14
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Remember when I told you they were saying the same thing two years ago?
hahhaahha

i know! i think it is really close now
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Old 02-09-07, 11:43 AM   #15
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so they get louder after the grease disperses or something?
Yeah, but they recommend a light oil. Using grease can cause problems.

Last edited by cryptid01; 02-09-07 at 03:16 PM.
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Old 02-09-07, 11:51 AM   #16
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hahhaahha

i know! i think it is really close now
Its ok to hold onto a dream. I believed in santa clause until I was 22
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Old 02-09-07, 12:03 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KtecR
I've been doing some research on hubs with high engagement points and have narrowed my options to hadley and chris king. Both seem to have awesome reviews, but where can I get these components for the best price? CompetitiveCyclist has both, but they list their hadley as 108 engagement points and from what i've seen on this forum is that they have changed to 72 like CK. Does this mean CC is selling old (really old) hadley hubs?
What CK is selling is something called the "ring drive" it doesn't have pawls. I've seen one opened up and it's got a floating outer ring (that rolls with the hub shell) and an inner ring (these rings are weird looking gears, I don't really know enough to describe them better). I don't know what hadley has, but hopefully this helps.
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Old 02-09-07, 12:32 PM   #18
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I have a dumb question to which I seek an intelligent answer:

Number of engagement points seems to be the Grail of hubs; but is there some point of diminishing returns, in that, in order to get more points they become too small and more prone to wear or breakage?
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Old 02-09-07, 12:50 PM   #19
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I have a dumb question to which I seek an intelligent answer:
I hate that kind! In the future, I would prefer an intelligent question to which I can provide a dumb answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dminor
Number of engagement points seems to be the Grail of hubs; but is there some point of diminishing returns, in that, in order to get more points they become too small and more prone to wear or breakage?
The answer I would give is "I suspect so," although there are definitely varying schools of thought. One follows your line of reasoning, another hypothesizes that with closer spacing, there is less free lash before engagement, which would seemingly decrease the peak loads on the pawls at engagement.
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Old 02-09-07, 12:53 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by gastro
I hate that kind! In the future, I would prefer an intelligent question to which I can provide a dumb answer.



The answer I would give is "I suspect so," although there are definitely varying schools of thought. One follows your line of reasoning, another hypothesizes that with closer spacing, there is less free lash before engagement, which would seemingly decrease the peak loads on the pawls at engagement.
I would follow that line. It appears to me in my experience, that the high end hadley lasted SIGNIFIGANTLY longer than any shimano I have ever owned. That said, a high end low pawl hub might last longer due to better engineering. So my experience isn't exactly oranges to oranges.
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Old 02-09-07, 01:22 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by gastro
I hate that kind! In the future, I would prefer an intelligent question to which I can provide a dumb answer.
Me too . . . or ones that I can whip off a useless, smart-alec remark to.

Thanks guys. I haven't really had ocassion yet to dig into rear hubs, as I've never blown one up yet - - so I haven't really studied their differing internals. It looks from what I saw on this Hadley rebuild on SickLines:
http://www.sicklines.com/tech/howto/hadleyoverhaul
that there are just three very robust pawls engaging a ring of many teeth in the hub-shell. My next dumb question is - - what is with this design that makes them noisier than other hubs? Is it the clacking of such large pawls, higher spring tension on them or a combination of both?
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Old 02-09-07, 01:30 PM   #22
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God forget to install the muffler. Or maybe he installed a hub glass pack....either way...THANK YOU!
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Old 02-09-07, 02:51 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Maelstrom
Man am I the only one who likes my hubs noisy. BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
my hope hub is pretty loud and I love it.
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Old 02-09-07, 03:00 PM   #24
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Thanks everyone, that was incredibly helpful. Now while we are on stupid questions, I was wondering what the difference between through-axle and quick release is. I know what QR is, but is TA just the traditional bolt on style? advantages?
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Old 02-09-07, 03:17 PM   #25
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Thanks everyone, that was incredibly helpful. Now while we are on stupid questions, I was wondering what the difference between through-axle and quick release is. I know what QR is, but is TA just the traditional bolt on style? advantages?
through-axles are generally 20mm, and are big-up chunks of metal. superstrong. they aren't traditional bolt-on style, they are clamped down by the dropouts using pinch bolts.



compared to your standard dropout and bolt, where the the bolt compresses the axle onto the frame



quick releases use 5mm skewers to achieve the same effect as a regular bolt-on axle.

there are also quick-release 20mm axles, most notably the MAXLE by rockshox.


I believe marzocchi or manitou have tried to come up with something similar, but still relies on pinch bolts to keep it secure.

and advantage of a 20mm TA is it's far stronger, but a disadvantage is removing said axle to service something like a tire. This is why maxle is such a great idea; the strength of a TA, but the useability of a QR.
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