Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Mountain Biking Mountain biking is one of the fastest growing sports in the world. Check out this forum to discuss the latest tips, tricks, gear and equipment in the world of mountain biking.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-10-03, 08:23 AM   #1
bac
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
bac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Pennsylvania
Bikes: Too many to list!
Posts: 7,481
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
2003 XTR Group

Thus far I've only seen pictures and read about this all new groupo. Does anyone have any real-world experience? The components that are giving me some stress are the new shifter/brake levers and the rapid-rise derailier. From what I've read:

- One pushes down on the STI-type levers to go to a higher (smaller cog - lower on the cassette) gear

- One pushes up on the levers to go to a lower (bigger cog - higher on the cassette) gear

- One now cannot downshift (bigger cog - higher on the cassette) multiple gears @ once, but one can upshift (smaller cog - lower on the cassette) up to 3 gears @ once.


So my questions are:

- Am I correct with these statements?

- One can apparently still use a (now redundant) thumb shifter. Does that shift to a higher (smaller cog - lower on the cassette) or a lower (bigger cog - higher on the cassette) gear?

- How do you like this new arrangement?

- Do you have any other comments on the XTR groupo?


ThanX a bunch!!!!!!
bac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-03, 09:02 AM   #2
schnell
Eleventy Billion Posts
 
schnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: East Coast
Bikes:
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
No clue on rapid rise or the new STI's. My drivetrain is '02 XTR, except the crankset which is '03.

So far it's held up very well. I have ~110 miles on it so far, and the only sign of it is some light rubbing from my shoes. Obviously it's going to get worse quick, but it adds character

One problem was the chainline on my bike was right-of-center. The included spacers pushed everything out too far. (There are 3 spacers included with the crankset. 2 go on the drive-side, 1 on the non-drive.) I had to reverse the spacers and put 2 on the non-drive side and 1 one the drive-side to get an even chainline. As it sits now, the entire crankset is a couple mm's off center on the bike, but I don't notice it. I guess it's the price you pay for the integrated unit...the benefits being the lighter weight and wider spaced bearings.
schnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-03, 09:04 AM   #3
schnell
Eleventy Billion Posts
 
schnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: East Coast
Bikes:
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I went pic crazy when I got everything put together

Purty crankset:
schnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-03, 12:08 PM   #4
iamlucky13
Footballus vita est
 
iamlucky13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Bikes: Trek 4500, Kona Dawg
Posts: 2,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm still quite warry of the 2003 xtr, but those cranks sure have a pretty finish on them!
__________________
"The internet is a place where absolutely nothing happens. You need to take advantage of that." ~ Strong Bad
iamlucky13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-03, 01:32 PM   #5
Dannihilator
User Title
 
Dannihilator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Annandale, New Jersey
Bikes: 2014 Surly Steamroller, 1989 Nishiki Altron
Posts: 19,422
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
It's just my opinion, but I feel like Shimano tried to fix something that wasn't broken. This is also the same reason I'm going to be switching to Sram for 2004.
Dannihilator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-03, 02:54 PM   #6
Maelstrom 
Wood Licker
 
Maelstrom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Whistler,BC
Bikes: Transition Dirtbag, Kona Roast 2002 and specialized BMX
Posts: 16,885
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Have to with Danka....although Sram has to come out with a reasonable priced rapid fire shifter...I can't do grip shift
Maelstrom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-03, 04:02 PM   #7
DiL
Senior Member
 
DiL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: US:AZ
Bikes:
Posts: 362
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
So far, their trigger shifters are only compatible with their deraileurs. Still, I would be happy to throw a 9.0 on to match the triggers if it meant avoiding this new trend from Shimano.
DiL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-03, 04:10 PM   #8
Maelstrom 
Wood Licker
 
Maelstrom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Whistler,BC
Bikes: Transition Dirtbag, Kona Roast 2002 and specialized BMX
Posts: 16,885
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thats the point. The new rapid fire with the sram deraileurs...
Maelstrom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-03, 04:14 PM   #9
DiL
Senior Member
 
DiL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: US:AZ
Bikes:
Posts: 362
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
But unlike Apple, Shimano has claim on almost the entire high-end market. Walmart bikes use Gripshift, Cannondale's come (or used to) with it. I'm unable to think of anything else that does. If anyone was going to pull something like this off (making all the other manufacturers' products obsolete) Shimano is in a great position to do it. Everyone I see jumping on this new line of products worries me.

[edit]
I on the other hand, am not even a little afraid to bucher a thread
DiL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-03, 04:30 PM   #10
schnell
Eleventy Billion Posts
 
schnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: East Coast
Bikes:
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Has anyone here actually used the new shifters? I hear they're not all that bad. I think it would be nice to keep your index finger on the brake for shifting. Granted the price is high, but when the new system trickles down to XT, I'm sure it'll be lower.

Disliking it because it doesn't work is one thing...but don't dismiss it just because it's new and different.
schnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-03, 04:41 PM   #11
Maelstrom 
Wood Licker
 
Maelstrom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Whistler,BC
Bikes: Transition Dirtbag, Kona Roast 2002 and specialized BMX
Posts: 16,885
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by schnell
Has anyone here actually used the new shifters? I hear they're not all that bad. I think it would be nice to keep your index finger on the brake for shifting. Granted the price is high, but when the new system trickles down to XT, I'm sure it'll be lower.

Disliking it because it doesn't work is one thing...but don't dismiss it just because it's new and different.
I was able to test it...and it won't work for serious freeriders (too much bar movement and keeping the finger on the brake lever, I would misshift A LOT). Having it in the xTX class is ridiculous. XC riding fine. I don't see an issue with pulling a finger off and have never had an issue so I don't see how this was broken...

The price isn't high its ridiculous...I don't eve dismiss it because of price. If you want to run their drive train you need to run the entire system (especially if you run xtx). I hate being forced to run stuff. This TOTAL proprietary requirement is what pisses me off about it. Whether the system is good or not is irrelevant

Last edited by Maelstrom; 05-10-03 at 04:47 PM.
Maelstrom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-03, 04:45 PM   #12
Maelstrom 
Wood Licker
 
Maelstrom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Whistler,BC
Bikes: Transition Dirtbag, Kona Roast 2002 and specialized BMX
Posts: 16,885
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by DiL
But unlike Apple, Shimano has claim on almost the entire high-end market.
Good point...although this may not make sense to anyone reading this since I removed my post ...

Quote:
Everyone I see jumping on this new line of products worries me.
...I just want shimano to pull their head out of their ass and offer choices...I hate being painted into a corner by a company. Sram is really no better with their grip shift but IF they come out with a good working rapid fire that will really impress me.
Maelstrom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-03, 04:51 PM   #13
schnell
Eleventy Billion Posts
 
schnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: East Coast
Bikes:
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It may not be the best option for freeriding or DH, so I agree that it was a bad move to completely do away with rapid-fire. But from an XC perspective, it sounds like a cool system. I guess I'm a dying breed

What about Saint? Do you already dislike that, or are you going to test it out first?
schnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-03, 05:05 PM   #14
Maelstrom 
Wood Licker
 
Maelstrom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Whistler,BC
Bikes: Transition Dirtbag, Kona Roast 2002 and specialized BMX
Posts: 16,885
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by schnell
It may not be the best option for freeriding or DH, so I agree that it was a bad move to completely do away with rapid-fire. But from an XC perspective, it sounds like a cool system. I guess I'm a dying breed
Exactly...if I ever buy a pure xc bike it sounds great And in fact is very inventive...

Quote:

What about Saint? Do you already dislike that, or are you going to test it out first?
Thats what I meant by XTX...I don't like shimano hubs so I am already out of luck. I also don't like the fact I can't run an Evil chain guide or Raceface cranks. Because their entire system requires everything THEY make I refuse to buy it. It might be a good system but I refuse to make my bike a 100% shimano bike. To explain further

1 - propietary spline on the bb requiring proprietary chain guide requiring proprietary crank and heck it may even have a proprietary hole configuration meaning fews choices for chain rings.
2 - On the rear end. Deraileur attached to hub (I think this is dumb) so proprietary hub/deraileur...I would be surprised if they don't come out with a way to make a proprietary chain.
3 - The shifters...I already said enough about this....

So in short...yes I already dislike it
Maelstrom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-03, 05:17 PM   #15
Dannihilator
User Title
 
Dannihilator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Annandale, New Jersey
Bikes: 2014 Surly Steamroller, 1989 Nishiki Altron
Posts: 19,422
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Well, come Tuesday, I will be officially Shimano less. The parts needed will be in. Will I be able to ride it for awhile. Nope thanks to a strained acl. I will ride but not mash.
Dannihilator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-03, 05:18 PM   #16
Jim311
Senior Member
 
Jim311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Gainesville, Florida
Bikes:
Posts: 1,791
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't like how Shimano asked for a fix to a problem that never existed. I haven't tried them, and I don't want to. My biggest beef is them trying to FORCE everyone into only using Shimano parts. Like their rotors that conveiniently ONLY fit their hubs. Now that their monopoly on the high-end mountain bike parts market is slowly disappearing they're struggling to hold onto it. There are companies making as good (If not better) parts for less money. I'd rather send my money to the underdog, and hopefully a company that's in the USA. Just because a company isn't massive doesn't mean it doesn't make good parts!
Jim311 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-03, 05:19 PM   #17
Dannihilator
User Title
 
Dannihilator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Annandale, New Jersey
Bikes: 2014 Surly Steamroller, 1989 Nishiki Altron
Posts: 19,422
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Jim311
I don't like how Shimano asked for a fix to a problem that never existed. I haven't tried them, and I don't want to. My biggest beef is them trying to FORCE everyone into only using Shimano parts. Like their rotors that conveiniently ONLY fit their hubs. Now that their monopoly on the high-end mountain bike parts market is slowly disappearing they're struggling to hold onto it. There are companies making as good (If not better) parts for less money. I'd rather send my money to the underdog, and hopefully a company that's in the USA. Just because a company isn't massive doesn't mean it doesn't make good parts!
I absolutely agree.
Dannihilator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-03, 05:22 PM   #18
Jim311
Senior Member
 
Jim311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Gainesville, Florida
Bikes:
Posts: 1,791
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh, and by the way.... apparently not too many people are using the Shimano disc brake system simply because you have to use their levers, hubs, etc. I don't think it's a coincidence that soon they are going to be offering their rotors in the international 6-bolt standard pattern.
Jim311 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-03, 05:55 PM   #19
DiL
Senior Member
 
DiL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: US:AZ
Bikes:
Posts: 362
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by schnell
Has anyone here actually used the new shifters? I hear they're not all that bad. I think it would be nice to keep your index finger on the brake for shifting. Granted the price is high, but when the new system trickles down to XT, I'm sure it'll be lower.

Disliking it because it doesn't work is one thing...but don't dismiss it just because it's new and different.
Its not the concept I dislike. As an XC rider I can appreciate this sort of innovation. However, what I dislike about it is the principle. They're creating a proprietary standard that other companies may or may not (I suspect not) be able to duplicate. An instant monopoly is created. Great if you write "Sincerely Mr Shimano" at the bottom of all your letters, but that leaves a whole lot of other companies screwed over. And as consumers we're being setup for a big (bigger) price hike.

Since we're riding this Apple theme, I'll use it again. I wish I owned a Mac. When it comes to video editing they simply cannot be beat. There are programs for PC that do it, but they can't compare to their Mac counterparts. However, I won't buy a Mac because they play the greedy proprietary game. Love the product, hate the manufacturer would be another way to say it.

I would think the same would apply to the Saint line. Some of the ideas were better than others, but on a whole I think people liked the innovative ideas. But no one wants to help Shimano dominate a market.
DiL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-03, 07:28 PM   #20
bac
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
bac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Pennsylvania
Bikes: Too many to list!
Posts: 7,481
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by schnell
No clue on rapid rise or the new STI's. My drivetrain is '02 XTR, except the crankset which is '03.
ThanX for the info., schnell. Did you get the 02 XTR stuff (drivetrain sans crankset) because you didn't like the 03 stuff?

ThanX!!
bac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-03, 07:36 PM   #21
bac
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
bac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Pennsylvania
Bikes: Too many to list!
Posts: 7,481
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Holy cow - now I'm really confused!

I'm buying a new bike that I would like to fit with the XTR group. However, I'm scared that I will not like the new STI shifter/brake levers and the rapid-rise derailier.

If I find that I do not like this set-up. Would it be possible to get the entire 03 XTR group, but substitute the 02 XTR shifters, brake levers and derailier? In other words, will there be any compatibility problems with this type of set-up??

ThanX again guys!!!!
bac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-03, 11:33 PM   #22
Waldo
Zippy Engineer
 
Waldo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: IN
Bikes: Bianchi 928, Bianchi Pista Concept 2004, Surly Steamroller, 1998 Schwinn Factory Team Homegrown, 1999 Schwinn Homegrown Factory, 2000 Schwinn Panther, Niner EMD9
Posts: 1,801
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
While you cannot downshift multiple gears at once with the new system, many people (including Specialized) are using last year's non Rapid Rise rear derailleur to remedy this.
The thumb shifter is intended as a learning crutch and is removable. Our customers have done away with it quickly and never looked back.
I am personally not a huge fan of the new setup-I want to have more flexibility in levers, etc. Shimano makes great stuff, I just don't want to be forced to use only their components. Rapid Rise works great for me-I've got one of last year's derailleurs and I've had no trouble at all with it. I've ridden the new setup on a couple occasions and have found it to work well, but I don't have any desire to switch to this configuration.
For the SRAM folks, they are coming out with triggers that will work with Shimano derailleurs.
Waldo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-03, 11:39 PM   #23
Jim311
Senior Member
 
Jim311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Gainesville, Florida
Bikes:
Posts: 1,791
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
So what happens if you break an XTR lever? You can't shift OR brake? That would SUCK to be stuck out in the boondocks with no brakes or shifters!
Jim311 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-03, 12:39 AM   #24
Maelstrom 
Wood Licker
 
Maelstrom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Whistler,BC
Bikes: Transition Dirtbag, Kona Roast 2002 and specialized BMX
Posts: 16,885
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Waldo
While you cannot downshift multiple gears at once with the new system, many people (including Specialized) are using last year's non Rapid Rise rear derailleur to remedy this.
The thumb shifter is intended as a learning crutch and is removable. Our customers have done away with it quickly and never looked back.
I am personally not a huge fan of the new setup-I want to have more flexibility in levers, etc. Shimano makes great stuff, I just don't want to be forced to use only their components. Rapid Rise works great for me-I've got one of last year's derailleurs and I've had no trouble at all with it. I've ridden the new setup on a couple occasions and have found it to work well, but I don't have any desire to switch to this configuration.
For the SRAM folks, they are coming out with triggers that will work with Shimano derailleurs.
Are they coming out with a trigger that works with their system?...(sram that is...I am 100% sure I am dumping shimano)
Maelstrom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-03, 02:58 AM   #25
math2p14
Part of the furniture
 
math2p14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Exeter UK, Athens Greece.
Bikes: Specialized RH, Scott Unitrack
Posts: 930
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I Agree with the proprietary stuff on XTR and Saint...i dont like them at all. However i wont dislike shimano for that. so far it produces marvelous products for me ( XT , XT discs , Deore.). No one touches shimano on these series. If shimano screws up with new XT LX etc...and if SRAM or any other come up with something trustworthy ...then shimano will die for me.
math2p14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:57 PM.