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Old 03-05-07, 07:10 AM   #1
mx_599
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for you trials folk...tar

http://www.observedtrials.net/vb/showthread.php?t=27101

sorry if i am slow and this is widely known...but i thought it was great! i feel like making one even though i have nothing to use it on.
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Old 03-05-07, 08:42 AM   #2
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Wait what does the tar do?
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Old 03-05-07, 08:51 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Punx
Wait what does the tar do?
grippy

i just looked further down in thread...maybe not such a good idea. chapstick case might work better
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Old 03-05-07, 11:11 AM   #4
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screw the tar, just put a nice grind on your rim. Its a lot cleaner and IMO alot grippier
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Old 03-05-07, 05:37 PM   #5
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Hmm that is kinda cool. My friends just carry a hunk of it in a plastic bag.
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Old 03-05-07, 05:45 PM   #6
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The tar stops you on a dime !!!!
Literally !! I have a Monty (for sale, too !!)
with juicers and with tarred rims it will pull your
arms out of the sockets stopping
Great for stoppies
The only problem is it squeeeeks sooooo loud.
If you trials ride in your yard be prepred to
hear noise from your neighbors if you do this !!
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Old 03-06-07, 12:31 AM   #7
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Do you peruse OTN often Mx 599?

My roommate rides trials. ONLY. Posts on there quite a bit.
He's telling me tar is only good if its a: dry and b: within a certain temperature range.
Too hot it will melt, too cold it has no pliability.
Tar vs grind could be debated for hours
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Old 03-06-07, 02:23 AM   #8
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Do you peruse OTN often Mx 599?

My roommate rides trials. ONLY. Posts on there quite a bit.
He's telling me tar is only good if its a: dry and b: within a certain temperature range.
Too hot it will melt, too cold it has no pliability.
Tar vs grind could be debated for hours
hello!

i discovered the greatest thing a month back...forum readers! (yes, i am a bit slow) now i can monitor a ton of threads...here, there, and everywhere!

yes, i try to stay current with the OTN site. i am pretty familiar with all trial bikes and parts (only from net...not in person).

i have my build all picked out in my head. however, i put it on the back burner. i probably won't build a trials bike for about 2 years. i want the KOT MS2 and a bunch of other goodies.

my biggest fear with trials is that i don't have the natural talent to be able to do it and then basically i waste 2500+ dollars on the bike.

you either have it on two wheels or you don't. i don't have it. that is why i am not racing professional motocross.

anyway, that site is pretty funny. they seem to have a gay fetish over there?? it is also kind of funny because nothing is censored.

as far as grind vs tar, i plan on going full disc. i know those trials guys swear by the magura rim brakes...but oh well. i just plan on using the Hope trial brake.
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Old 03-06-07, 02:47 AM   #9
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I would grind my rims but I'm to lazy and tar works just fine for me.
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Old 03-06-07, 07:59 AM   #10
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as far as grind vs tar, i plan on going full disc. i know those trials guys swear by the magura rim brakes...but oh well. i just plan on using the Hope trial brake.
Its not so much a question of which is better, its a question of frame strength. Trials puts some pretty extreme pressures on the rear triangle and with disc brake the brunt of that force is at the end of the stays whereas with maggies the force is alot close to the middle of the frame. Alot less metal to flex and break. Many trials riders will run a front disc for the added modulation offered, but the frame stresses aren't nearly as bad on the front fork
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Old 03-07-07, 09:15 PM   #11
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I only bumped this thread to deny the suspicion that riding trials takes supernatural abilities. Because it doesn't.

More people need to start riding.
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Old 03-08-07, 04:33 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by jamey
I only bumped this thread to deny the suspicion that riding trials takes supernatural abilities. Because it doesn't.

More people need to start riding.
+1.
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Old 03-08-07, 04:54 PM   #13
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I only bumped this thread to deny the suspicion that riding trials takes supernatural abilities. Because it doesn't.

More people need to start riding.
I used to ride trials...then i found DJing and have no time nor much of a will to hop on my trials bike. I will say though that some of the basic skills from trials are great for all types of riding
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Old 03-08-07, 05:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mx_599
i want the KOT MS2 and a bunch of other goodies.
Any reason? Have you tried a trials specific bike before? Have you got geometry in mind? What goodies do you plan on getting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mx_599
my biggest fear with trials is that i don't have the natural talent to be able to do it and then basically i waste 2500+ dollars on the bike.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamey
I only bumped this thread to deny the suspicion that riding trials takes supernatural abilities. Because it doesn't.

I'd suggest you run a V brake or Hs 33 in the rear for the same reasons brad06aq mentioned. There's a good chance you'll rip your disc brake mount clean off, I've seen it happen before. Disc brakes also slip a lot more on the rear, and it's easy to warp the disc on a sidehop. Disc on the rear is more of a mod thing.
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Old 03-08-07, 05:48 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echo_Control
Any reason? Have you tried a trials specific bike before? Have you got geometry in mind? What goodies do you plan on getting?

I'd suggest you run a V brake or Hs 33 in the rear for the same reasons brad06aq mentioned. There's a good chance you'll rip your disc brake mount clean off, I've seen it happen before. Disc brakes also slip a lot more on the rear, and it's easy to warp the disc on a sidehop. Disc on the rear is more of a mod thing.
are you jamey's roommate?

reason? not really. i would like to have something different. i like the disc brakes. i don't feel there are a bunch of people with one. i like the silver one. no, i have never been on a trials bike. i know the maggies are probably better, but i will take a chance. i have seen them rip the frame on the forums. i haven't seen any KOTs break with the update though. have you? i try to keep tabs on the bike. KOT reinforced that area with a brace similar to the drive side. i don't mind if it slips a little. i watched adam of tarty stylin' on a KOT so it can't be that bad. i thought he made the bike look pretty good. unless it is not good for a beginner? i just like disc brakes....but i don't disagree with you at all.

well, lets see...i found some nice riser onza carbon bars that looked nice . Hope trial brakes. as far as hubs, i was under the impression that fast engagements are nice. true?

if that's the case, than i could choose I9 or stealth. i might go with stealth. however, i like the idea of a dishless wheel and 4 cogs on the I9 SS. i am thinking 4 cogs would be a sweet set-up. i have seen a lot of bikes with just a few gears or SS...so i was thinking dishless would be the way to go for strength. not that i'll be putting the bike to the TEST or anything. it is still comforting to know you have a nice set-up

rims...haven't really decided. i kind of did but i am forgetting which i like now. maybe is was try-all? i know they had some parts i was looking at. trials is cool because they have their own little niche of different things. i like "window shopping" at TARTY. Hope headset.

maybe some echo parts...i try to keep things somewhat within the same family. i don't like to have a different manufacturer for every component...so we'll see.

Last edited by mx_599; 03-08-07 at 05:58 PM.
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Old 03-08-07, 06:26 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by mx_599
are you jamey's roommate?
Nope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mx_599
i found some nice riser onza carbon bars that looked nice
Yikes...might not be the best idea. Deffo save weight though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mx_599
i was under the impression that fast engagements are nice. true?
Yep. Fast engagement and SOLID engagement. A fast engaging hub that skips all the time is worthless. Chris king and Hope make some of the better hubs for trials. There's a lot of bad reviews on the deng hubs (echo, adamant, GU, etc). Profile are good as well.

This Hope hub is great, and the freehub body is designed for a 6 speed setup, similar to what you're looking for.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Hope-Pro-2-Trials...QQcmdZViewItem

There isn't much choice in rims, it's basically Echo or Try-all. Both are good, but the newer echo rims are much stronger and the grind lasts longer. Try-all rims are made of a softer metal than the Echo rims. Dishless is good.

The KOT ms2 might be a bad frame to start on because of the long wheelbase and high bottom bracket height. It'll feel like the most awkward bike you've ever riden. High bottom bracket height is for the more advanced riders, or riders that do mostly only rear wheel moves. Having a high bottom bracket height actually makes moves on two wheels harder. You'll probably never bunnyhop again. Damon Watson rode a KOT a while back, but has since upgraded to an even higher bb bike (just his style, goes really big). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43k5cvUWA9E

With this said, I'd recommend a bike with a shorter wheelbase and lower bottom bracket height. Echo, Zoo and Adamant are worth a look. http://www.hbtrials.com/adamant_a1.html

Oh, and if you run disc and derailleur, you're pretty much screwed for sidehops, because if u mess up, and hop to either side, your going to either ruin your derailleur or warp a rotor.

Edit: Forgot to mention front freewheels. You can get a fast engaging trials freewheel and slap it on some screw on cranks, and you're set. This is often cheaper than buying an expensive rear hub. Gotta use a fixed rear hub though.

Last edited by Echo_Control; 03-08-07 at 06:33 PM.
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Old 03-08-07, 06:53 PM   #17
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Edit: Forgot to mention front freewheels. You can get a fast engaging trials freewheel and slap it on some screw on cranks, and you're set. This is often cheaper than buying an expensive rear hub. Gotta use a fixed rear hub though.
I definitely like/liked my front freewheel cranks. Of course mine were customed milled out of a set of hussefelts by my buddy at a machine shop, so they were next to free since i already had the cranks. I merely epoxied my old hub together and it worked like a charm (still works like a charm except the bike has been sitting for a year due to dirt jumps).

The thing i liked about trials the most i think is the ingenuity behind getting bikes put together. Trials riders due more of their own work than anyother group as a whole probably. Alot of bike shops will take one look at a trials bike and ask you WTF is that, and then when you tell them what you want to do with something, they'll be like "what?". It definitely taught me how to do my own work and figure out what will/will not work on building up a bike.
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Old 03-08-07, 06:57 PM   #18
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Front FW can be awfully utilitarian, as you can spin a track cog on to use them like normal cranks (depending on your frame, but it generally clears) or the fw if you've got a rear fixed hub. Right now webcyclery has rear 6speed fixed echo wheels for pretty affordable, $160 iirc+shipping, and midwestbiketrials.com has the Echo ffw forged crank for 75+shipping, so for under 300 with a niceish freewheel you can have a nice fixed drivetrain started. obviously you need der and shifter and all that mess for it to, but you get the idea, right?
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Old 03-08-07, 07:02 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Echo_Control
This Hope hub is great, and the freehub body is designed for a 6 speed setup, similar to what you're looking for.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/Hope-Pro-2-Trials...QQcmdZViewItem

The KOT ms2 might be a bad frame to start on because of the long wheelbase and high bottom bracket height. It'll feel like the most awkward bike you've ever riden. High bottom bracket height is for the more advanced riders, or riders that do mostly only rear wheel moves. Having a high bottom bracket height actually makes moves on two wheels harder. You'll probably never bunnyhop again. Damon Watson rode a KOT a while back, but has since upgraded to an even higher bb bike (just his style, goes really big). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43k5cvUWA9E
i forgot about the hope trials hub. does it lace to dishless as well? i don't really like profile hubs.

do you know anyone using the stealth hub? i have one on my bmx. the little use i have on it so far seems really cool!

what about the short wheelbase KOT MS2? i don't care much about the disc bending. i'll just take a chance and keep a cheaper disc on it. now, the BB height presents a problem...
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Old 03-08-07, 07:17 PM   #20
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does it lace to dishless as well?
I think it might. Not 100% sure. I've never heard of a stealth hub being used in trials. If it's a bmx hub, it wont fit on a KOT frame because the axle width of the two is different. Although, the new mod stock frames that deng is making will work. How many engagement points does it have?
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Old 03-08-07, 07:19 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echo_Control
I think it might. Not 100% sure. I've never heard of a stealth hub being used in trials. If it's a bmx hub, it wont fit on a KOT frame because the axle width of the two is different. Although, the new mod stock frames that deng is making will work. How many engagement points does it have?
no, they have different widths so it is all good.

infinite engagements...

check it out:

http://www.trueprecision.net/

http://www.trueprecision.net/c_products.html

http://www.trueprecision.net/shopping/enter.html
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Old 03-08-07, 08:30 PM   #22
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If that works anything like the Shimano Silent clutch hubs do, it'll be terrible for trials.
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Old 03-08-07, 08:37 PM   #23
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I think it would be cheaper to get a Hope or even a used King on eaby...I've got a King, there's nothing like it...
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Old 03-08-07, 09:14 PM   #24
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If that works anything like the Shimano Silent clutch hubs do, it'll be terrible for trials.
why?
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Old 03-08-07, 09:15 PM   #25
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I think it would be cheaper to get a Hope or even a used King on eaby...I've got a King, there's nothing like it...
Sure there is.......
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