Phatman

So I went to go riding today to a trail that I never been on before, its about a half hour away. so I got to the trail head, and the sign says 5 bucks a car, 10 dollars for a bus. So I go to my wallet...dang...no money.

so I turn around, park a mile away, and ride in. Its about a 10 minute spin, not bad at all. I get to the trail head again, and they said that I need to pay. I was confused, thinking that it was just cars. so I turned around and started riding back to my car. I had to pee, so I stopped by the side of the road and went into the woods a bit, and I saw another trailhead! I wasn't really sure if it was part of the same system, so I took a piss, and went down the trail a bit, maybe 30 seconds or so. before I know it, theres a woman standing in the trail, and she said that I needed to stop. I said sure. she said that she was going to issue me a citation for "evading an innkeeper" I didn't think she was a real ranger with any real authority, since she didn't have a gun, radio or handcuffs anywhere in sight so I told her my name was john doe, I didn't have my drivers license on me and that she should politely **** off.

well I start to leave and she tells me that I am not free to leave and that I need to follow her. I say whatever, and follow her. when I get to her truck, I see that she is in fact a park ranger, and she actually runs "john doe" in the license computer! I told her my real name when i realized that she was actually running my information, and in addition to evading an innkeeper she added defrauding a law enforcement officer!

now I have a court date, and apparently this can go on my criminal record! Luckily, she didn't sign the ticket, but I'm not sure if that'll work with a criminal ticket.

what a waste of time and money.

Jack858

my god, I am glad I live in Englad and dont have to worry about this type of people, sorry for you Phatman, hope it goes OK

Jack

trek1

That is absolutely insane, good thing she didn't ticket you for peeing

Hopefully the judge isn't on their side

C Law

in retrospect, you probably shouldn't have told her to **** off

mirona

Indeed. It seems the title you gave her fits you much better.

Stacey

Glad I don't live in nort carolina!

jm01

My daughter is a park warden and tells me that it's no fun...

...we have a zero tolerance policy for garbage in our provincial parks...you take out what you brought in, but last year she was in a remote area of one of her parks, and came across a littered campsite.

Very remote, this area is accessed only by canoeing through 4 interior lakes and having to portage 5 times...she had no choice but to charge the camper ($50.00) when she caught up with him, and then saw that he had only one leg...she was very impressed that he could do this trip, but charged him anyway as she had no choice

You see, it was his fault, as the case of the OP

apclassic9

I think it might just possible be incumbent upon the rider to check out the rules & regs at the various parks he or she might want to ride in? Dang, no money?? Most parks take plastic, too! Those "stupid" rangers are probably the ones who maintain that trail.

jm01

Yep, my daughter is also the Trail Manager and supervises a team of 6 techs that clear fallen trees, fix erosion, put up straw bales around trees on steep descents...well, you get the idea...charges only $8.00/day for parking and full trail access.

Not a bad deal

apclassic9

Park Rangers are our friends. If your local Park Rangers don't like mountain bikers, guess what will happen to the mountain bike trails in thier parks? The OP should get a grip on the reality of ACCESS - it's quite a big issue in the MTB world, and the OP relates just the kind of stuff that makes people who advocate for trail access cringe!

JagdNeun

Thats a tough way to learn that enforcement authority doesnt neccessarily have to have a gun, radio, or handcuffs. I noticed you didnt say anything about a uniform, a badge, or some credentials to go along with her stopping you. If she didnt have those than I personally wouldnt have even followed her.

Just go to court and tell the Judge what happened. Be honest about it because either way, my guess is he's not going to let you slide on this one. The reason is your comments to the officer, especially if she was in uniform. If you can prove you didnt connect her to the park in any official way, than youve got a chance.

As far as park rangers being stupid, well....she knew she was a park ranger, and guess what....She was.

jm01

yep, my daughter has a scary uniform, badge, handcuffs, and a collapsable baton...apparently her BF likes those cuffs

wvxc

I cringe at the thought of having to pay for access to something my tax dollars already payed for.

C Law

Actually, the Chinese are paying for it. Your tax dollars go to pay the interest on the money we 'borrow' from the Chinese.

apclassic9

wvxc - different states have different attitudes toward thier parks. In WV, the trail access at state parks is free, but camping & parking might cost some money. WV is rather MTB friendly, though, and the state association works hard to keep it that way.

I'm originally from NYS, and it's commonplace to have to pay an admittance fee to enter a state park; many states are the same way.

kidcharlamagne

I think it would be uncomfortable to think of my daughter in those terms.

HarlieJ

Follow exactly what JagdNeum said but emphasize that she never showed you a badge, ID, etc. I have been in similar situations and unless they show some sort of ID, you're not obligated to do anything for them. I'd tell the judge exactly that - she didn't show me squat and that's why you reacted the way that you did.

jm01

That's another thing that bugs the kid...people who feel entitled because they're "taxpayers".

They don't realize that our provincial parks are not for-profit centres, all operate at a loss at taxpayer expense, many have free access, but maintaining campsites, facilities, maintenance, payroll, capital expenditure, etc. all costs money and it's only fair that the users pay a small share.

Why should a poor inner city taxpayer who never uses these facilities have to pay more just so that a small minority of privilaged people can have free access?

Try using some of the private for-profit facilities and compare how much more you have to pay

wvxc

I'm not a Canadian citizen so I don't know how your tax system is set up.

In America, tax dollars are what make the world turn. The majority of Gov't funds come from tax dollars. Not to mention when it comes to the park system there is a built in excise tax on the camping gear, the fishing supplies, and the hunting supplies, and all the proper licenses that I buy. This goes directly to the park system, of which I then return to to hunt, fish and camp. So yes, as a taxpayer my taxes entitle me to use of the park system that I help maintain.

Not to mention, I think it is total hipocrasy to refer to the people who pay her salary as "entitled", when in fact all Gov't jobs are paid for by the same people who provide welfare for the truly "entitled". I have a libertarian friend who calls all Gov't jobs just another form of welfare, and any monies put back into the system in the form of taxes from these jobs never equal the pay out. I don't tend to agree with him but dumba$$ statements like this tend to push me that way. I won't even get into the issue of the handcuffs.

ed 

If I ever talk about my own daughters that way...remind me to shoot myself.

wvxc

By the way Ace Adventure Center is but a few miles from my house, and allows access to their trail system free of charge. They are an outstanding company in the midst of many in the "Tourism Industry" who leave alot to be desired. They make money off the public river, so they let the public ride their trail system. I don't get your private company statement either, since our tax system is giving me the best of both worlds.

APCLASSIC,

I agree 100%. If you want to see what the "privatization" of state parks can do just go up to Stonewall. That place is ridiculous with fees and parking. It was state built and now is nothing but folks that are well to do. Tax dollars gone to waste.

mlh122

Well if they saw you go up to the machine, leave, then ride in, then leave, then try to enter through the side, they probably just thought you were trying to get out of paying. If you would have parked a mile away and rode in in the first place you might have gotten through. Also, if they didn't have credentials I don't think I would have followed her either, but not due to the lack of authority, I'd be thinking more along the lines of serial killers LOL.

Also, I don't mind paying for entrance to state parks that are close to big cities. Where I live we have some nice singletrack that is paid for by the city, but is often busy with drug dealers, bum emcampments, gangbanger kids that ask if they can have your bike then try to chase you on their singlespeed bmx (<-fairly regularly), etc... but the state parks that you pay for are perhaps 10 more minutes of driving, $4 to enter, and the only people you'll see are either rangers or hikers/campers/horses. My favorite one is pretty big, if you go on a weekday you'll likely not see another human, but several deer and elk. The deer aren't afraid of bikes there and will stand in groups blocking the trail. Great for pictures, annoying if you're just there for an after-work ride.

jm01

heh heh...when you're in enforcement, you need ways to restrain those entitled people...

I'm confident that our systems are fairly similar, and the operative word here is "help maintain", but as a user, I think that a user fee is justified, the alternative is to increase taxes, and that wouldn't be fair to those that don't use these facilities.

I always get a kick out of the people who think that they should get into the provincial park for free because they're taxpayers (actually, they do, but they have to pay for parking...same fee if one person in the car or 20...they can park outside the parks and wallk in for free, as we do with our bikes(except where they maintain bike trails, then it's $8.00))

I like the people that walk dogs on groomed provincial XC ski trails and destroy the tracks because they're taxpayers and entitled

I'd talk to your friend about government jobs being welfare...cops, judges, firemen, nurses...well you get the idea...

either your friend is extremely stupid or very imature...you just come across as selfish and entitled (as you yourself say you are)

Also, the parks that charge fees measure their income to control their payroll...less income means fewer jobs, especially for the students they hire on a seasonal basis

wvxc

Don't get it do you?

In America, the people who use our parks (federal parks, the one I use is federal) pay for excise taxes on the goods that they use in those parks. Read here https://www.acquisition.gov/far/curre...rt%2029_2.html

This ensures that those who use the parks, pay for the opportunity to do so. If you don't fish, hunt, camp ect ect then you don't pay the tax. I would like to see it updated so that Mountain Bikes, hiking equipment, equestrian sporting goods and everything that goes with it are inlcuded in ths tax to pay their share of the tax burden.

I do help maintain the system as do a hundred million other sportsmen in this country. The beauty of it is I don't have to do it by myself.

As for my friend, I won't change his mind, but fact is taxpayers pay the salaries of Gov't employees, just like they do the welfare recipients (I include corporate welfare here also). So I must ask who is truly entitled?

As for libertarians being stupid, why don't you google Charles Koch.

I'm glad we have GOOD park rangers here. They are helpful, and appreciate it when we help maintain the trails in the system. As for restraining me, you would be better off thinking about your daughter, her BF and those handcuffs.

jm01

odd that you would dwell on those handcuffs...the kid is 31, has a life of her own...I'm confident that she's having fun

Seems like some people can't get their mind out of the gutter though...you a baptist?...evengelical?...fundamentalist?

Weird, we always laugh about those handcuffs when she's over for dinner

What exactly do you mean about having "good" park rangers...the OP said that you have stupid ones. Are you implying that my daughter is a bad park warden, if so, why?...without any information yet, I'd assume that your head must be zippered up the back...full of sexual inuendo, perversion, and uninformed perforance issues...as a Park Superintendant with police powers of 4 major provincial parks most think that she's pretty good.

Must be that dumb American hubris that I read in your notes

grow up