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  1. #1
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    washing out in SoCal on my Cake...

    I have a Gary Fisher Cake that came stock with Bontrager Jones. They should be called knee scraper jones. My front tire especially washes out on loose gravel, pines, soft dirt, wood bridges with dust, etc. Before I break a collar bone, I need to swap out. Oh yeah, I'm loosing traction while pedaling up steep gravelly hills.

    I saw shiggy likes panaracer rampages. Looking for other options, too. Anyone have Fisher Geometry and a similar problem? Is there a front tire that you love? I had velociraptors on my old GT and never thought about tires before. Might be going back to that. Also thinking about Motoraptors...

    Thank you in advance for your expertise.
    Last edited by audiopablo; 05-29-07 at 02:11 PM.

  2. #2
    Because I am ! outdoornut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audiopablo
    I have a Gary Fisher Cake that came stock with Bontrager Jones. They should be called knee scraper jones. My front tire especially washes out on loose gravel, pines, soft dirt, wood bridges with dust, etc. Before I break a collar bone, I need to swap out. Oh yeah, I'm loosing traction while pedaling up steep gravelly hills.

    I saw shiggy likes panaracer rampages. Looking for other options, too. Anyone have Fisher Geometry and a similar problem? Is there a front tire that you love? I had velociraptors on my old GT and never thought about tires before. Might be going back to that. Also thinking about Motoraptors...

    Thank you in advance for your expertise.

    What kind of air pressure are you running in your presant knee scraper's?


    ODN
    Life's too short - Ride Hard

  3. #3
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    not sure, they're pumped pretty high. I'm going to get a guage today for shraders. I'm going to show my noobness when I tell you I go by feel. I think I did run slightly less psi on my velociraptors, but the tread size/depth/pattern on these bonts is way timid compared to the old tires on the old bike. Can you give me some info on proper psi for loose conditions?

    Thanks, again.

  4. #4
    ed
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    I weigh around 195lbs and run Kenda Nevegal 2.35" at around 45psi. I like them, I like them alot.

  5. #5
    Unemplawyer
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    tire pressure is dependent on tire width, among other things. A 2.3" tire inflated to the same PSI as a 2.0" tire would be considerably harder, for example. So we'd need to know that. Also, your weight will influence how low you can go before you'll pinch flat, and that's dependent also on the stiffness of the sidewalls, which varies with tire. I don't know much about Bontrager as I avoid it like the plague.

    A good starting ball park, though, would be to inflate your tires to 50 psi and drop them 5 psi at a time until you start pinch flatting or rolling the tire off the rim, or until you stop gaining traction. I usually run around 35 psi up front, 40 in the rear, on 2.3"s. I also run a much softer durometer tire up front for more grab. Softer wears quicker, but since the front isn't as heavily loaded as the back the softer tire actually wears at about the same rate as the rear (harder) compound.
    Hope you like reality.
    -racingpain

  6. #6
    Me and the cat... Pamestique's Avatar
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    I'm not an engineer so can't explaing the dynamics but the narrower the tire the higher the pressure should be... a wider tire should run well on alot less. FOr instance 2.3 - 2.4 should be around 35 psi in sandy conditions. 2.1 - 2 go can around 40 - 45. Same tire you can do 50 - 60 psi on hard packed.

    I used to like Mutanoraptors 2.4 for sand but now favor narrower tires. Not certain if width as anything to do with anything - it's the psi that's important. The looser the dirt, the lower the psi.

  7. #7
    Because I am ! outdoornut's Avatar
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    Well, the reason I asked about tire pressure is the fact it can make all
    the difference in the world on any tire in certain conditions. Of course
    if you are running on hardpack you can pump them up and get good
    service, however you are running is loose conditions.

    Here in WV you will run from hardpack to swamp to loose rock to solid
    limestone fields to whatever nature can throw at you and all in one
    ride. Out of a group of at least 15 fellow riders we often ride with
    we all run lower tire presures in these conditions. Most vary from 35 to 40
    psi.

    As the one poster advised, you may have to experiment to find the
    ultimate tire pressure for best performance in those loose conditions
    but my suggestions is to start at a much lower tire presure say around
    40 psi and work down. I run 2.10 on my hardtail and only run 36 psi in
    the front and 38 in the rear. On my FS I run 2.25 and run the same tire
    pressure. I have found that with my weight (205 + or - a couple) I don't
    get pinch flats if I keep the pressure at those settings and they take
    a beating on the rocks in Pocahontas County WV.

    Try setting them around 38 to 40 psi and see if they don't get a better
    bite. If you are not in big sharp cornered rocks you may be able to lower
    the pressure a bit more. Many cheaper tires have stiff sidewalls and you
    may be able to lower that by a couple pounds. You might like the tires
    after you get the proper air pressure.

    Carry a few extra tubes with you if you try lowering the pressure below 38
    psi. By the way, I run 38 psi even in my 2.5 Nevegals when I put them on
    to do some crazy downhill stuff. Hope this helps.

    ODN
    Life's too short - Ride Hard

  8. #8
    Senior Member MudPie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audiopablo
    I have a Gary Fisher Cake ...I saw shiggy likes panaracer rampages. Looking for other options, too. Anyone have Fisher Geometry and a similar problem? Is there a front tire that you love? ...Thank you in advance for your expertise.
    I have a 2004 Fisher Cake DLX. My front end seems a bit "light" especially when climbing and taking a tight switchback turn - I've trained myself to lean forward in such a situation. I have a 26x2.3 Rampage arriving tomorrow. I ride the typical hardpack stuff in So Cal. Here were/are my tire combinations (F/R):

    IRC Serac / IRC Serac: stock tires, didn't like the traction, more for XC riding, I'm more all-mountain.

    Panaracer Fire XC Pro 2.1 / Panaracer Fire XC Pro 2.1: Not a bad combo, but want something a bit wider up front

    Panaracer Cinder 2.25 / Panaracer Fire XC Pro 2.1: I wasn't too impressed with the Cinders - not a bad tire, but not thoroughly impressed

    Panaracer Fire FR Pro 2.4/ Panaracer Fire XC Pro: Nice setup, but 2.4 rubbed on my fork bridge during harsh events. I did like the big tire up front - inspired confidence on descents, just aim the bike and let the front end do the work.

    Panracer Rampage 2.35 / Panaracer Fire XC Pro: I expect to have this combo on in a week or so. I love the Fire XC Pros in the rear; they hook up well. I'm expecting good results from the Rampage, based on Shiggy and other posts I've read.

    I typically run my tires between 40-45 psi.

    Of course, YMMV.

  9. #9
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    thank you, everyone, so far. You've been very kind to offer so much information. I am grateful for the education.

    Outdoor, I'm going to watch my pressure carefully and try your advice on the trails. This info will go a long way.

    Mud, the tire combo info is very interesting. I'm thinking the rampage up front for sure now. I get that steering wheel popping up on me up hill sometimes, too. I thought I must be going crazy. I've got to learn to adapt to this. I'm also getting something I've never had before: the endo. At least five times in the past two weeks. This is my first f/s. Guess I'm pulling that left lever when I shouldn't be and getting donkey kicked. I'm also riding faster...

    Thanks in advance for any other kind souls with tire suggestions.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Jameson's Avatar
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    Shouldn't it be Bontrager Knee scrapers? Not Knee scraper Jones.

  11. #11
    Big Ring Circus crash13's Avatar
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    Kenda Nevagal 1.95's/42 psi - rolls fast and hooks up
    NorCal

  12. #12
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    While I'm tire researching, I put the ol' velociraptors on from the GT rigid. Just riding around on the dirt outside and trying to wash out on leaves and gravel felt totally different. I had control of the bike at low speed. All this time, I thought it was the geometry! It's official: bont jones suck bones. I can't believe they came stock on a Gary Fisher. Maybe I don't know something..

    I'm going to my little training ground tomorrow to test more. Meanwhile, I'll be looking out for deals on those rampages... So far, I'm thinking cinder in the back, rampage in the front.

  13. #13
    My left shoulder hurts. tempest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audiopablo
    While I'm tire researching, I put the ol' velociraptors on from the GT rigid. Just riding around on the dirt outside and trying to wash out on leaves and gravel felt totally different. I had control of the bike at low speed. All this time, I thought it was the geometry! It's official: bont jones suck bones. I can't believe they came stock on a Gary Fisher. Maybe I don't know something..

    I'm going to my little training ground tomorrow to test more. Meanwhile, I'll be looking out for deals on those rampages... So far, I'm thinking cinder in the back, rampage in the front.
    Make sure to keep the front lower than the rear in terms of pressure as well since you want the first tire to wash out to be the rear tire. If you lose traction in the rear first you're much less likely to seriously injure yourself than if you lose traction in the front.
    GT Avalanche | Specialized P3

  14. #14
    Senior Member MudPie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by audiopablo
    I'm thinking the rampage up front for sure now. I get that steering wheel popping up on me up hill sometimes, too. I thought I must be going crazy. I've got to learn to adapt to this. I'm also getting something I've never had before: the endo. At least five times in the past two weeks. This is my first f/s. Guess I'm pulling that left lever when I shouldn't be and getting donkey kicked. I'm also riding faster...
    .
    I did get my Rampage tire today, so it should be mounted and rolling by the weekend. I'll let you know how it goes - brand new Rampage 2.35 front, brand new Fire XC Pro 2.1 rear.

    I've done a few endos, not sure if I blame the bike or me. The Cake seems to sit high, so you may have to learn to scoot back on the seat in potential endo situations.

    I know I ride faster downhill compared to my previous 1999 Schwinn Homegrown hardtail. FS is more comfortable, and the entire setup (with disc brakes) inspires confidence. However, you're always going to find the "upper end" of the bike/your abilities.

  15. #15
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    Found a rampage at a semi-LBS. Also got a mutano raptor 2.4 (didn't have the cinder I was looking for). Put the rampage up front and the wtb mr on back. We'll see tomorrow. I might switch 'em. I gotta say that rampage looks mighty fine.

    Off topic, I found the noob courage to buy and install some bb7s to replace the v-brakes. Took a few hours, but I figured it out. This is old hat stuff to you pros, but it sure feels good at the end of the day to get it done. Now it's time to frankenstein the old GT rigid into somethin' else...

    Mudpie, can't wait to hear your report on the rampage.

    Shiggy, you didn't chime in on this thread, but I read most of the archives on your site. Thanks for putting something like that up. Makes the internet a little more awesome. I'm catching the tire bug, yikes!!!!

  16. #16
    Rouleur gattm99's Avatar
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    My brother had some of those Jones tires and hated them too. They seem like a hard cheap rubber.

    I've got a Velociraptor up front on one bike and it works well.

    I recently put a 2.35 Maxxis Swamp thing on front of my other bike. The first ride was a white nuckle experience, I had way over inflated the tire putting about the same air pressure as I would put in a smaller tire, maybe around 50. Every rock and root seemed like it was going to send me flying.

    The next ride I realized my mistake and went down to about 40, with the right pressure a big tire up front is awesome.

  17. #17
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    Just got back from the "training ground". It's actually Fairview park (you can look it up on socalmtb.com if you're curious) and has some bluffs, lots of tiny hills, a singletrack loop, and one or two steep hills. Anyway, the tire combo worked fine. There's a hill I never ride up because the old bonts would stop spin me out, but that mutano really grabbed. I really thought it was going to be the moment I decided to switch the rampage on back, but it was rock solid. I was getting a lot of jumping out of gear before because of all the stop, spin, & starts with the ol' bonts. Now the bike is a nice & efficient machine.

    I tried to simulate washing out where I did before and I couldn't get there. The rampage seemed fine and I felt confident to ride on the little ridges. The new bb7's probably helped, too.

    Yes, I aired down a bit, too. That seemed to help a bunch.

    Anyway, thanks for you here on this forum and mtbr.com Y'all helped a whole lot. Now I gotta get out to some real trails this weekend!

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