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Old 07-21-07, 03:32 PM   #1
BugsInMyTeeth
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Bomb proof wheel/spokes for large ass dude

Oi..

I seem to have an issue with blowing out rear wheels.

I'm big, 6'4", 250 lbs or so. I don't do anything drastic, no drops or jumps, the occasional bunny hop over a log at most..

Anyhoo..

Long story short. I want a strong back wheel. I don't want to keep spending money on new spokes and labor for truing.

Does such a wheel exist? Currently riding a Rhyno Lite, which I bought after I blew up the stock Mavic that came with my KHS Alite 3000.

I also think that twigs and stones keep jumping up into my spokes when riding. I ride alot, nearly everyday.. please suggest the strongest back wheel on the planet, and any advise on how to prevent such brutal spoke/wheel damage will be appreciated.
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Old 07-21-07, 04:16 PM   #2
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I just bent a rim up pretty bad on my last ride. After doing some research I'm going with a set of Mavic 321 laced to a Shimano XT disc hub(32h) with DT Swiss straight guage Champion 2.0 spokes and brass nipples. It seems like people see these are being "bomb proof" without breaking the bank or being ridiculously heavy.
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Old 07-21-07, 04:25 PM   #3
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Thanks.

But in all honesty.. I could give a rat's @ss about weight.

Did I mention I weigh 250?

I'd pay top dollar for a strong wheel, regardless of weight. Thanks for the input, I'll look into that.
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Old 07-21-07, 05:00 PM   #4
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Assuming your wallet is as heavy as you are:

http://www.industrynine.net/official/allmountain.html
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Old 07-21-07, 05:47 PM   #5
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If you really want strong get a Sun Mag 30. Freakin heavy but also damn strong.
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Old 07-21-07, 06:17 PM   #6
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www.atomlab.com make good wheels
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Old 07-21-07, 07:12 PM   #7
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Have you guys actually tried these wheels? Or just going on popular opinion?

My problem isn't all together with the rim, it's the spokes.. I keep getting crap in the spokes, which ultimately blows them apart.

Is there a MTB wheel like this type?



I have absolutely NO concern about weight. I'd rather spend an extra $$$ for something that isn't going to keep smashing on me.

It's annoying.
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Old 07-22-07, 07:56 AM   #8
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Any mtb'ers have any experience with Aerospokes?




Again.. I don't want lite.... I want STRENGTH.

I've search the forums, and most aerospoke returns are roadie stuff, and most of them whining about the weight of them.
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Old 07-22-07, 09:08 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Industrial View Post
I just bent a rim up pretty bad on my last ride. After doing some research I'm going with a set of Mavic 321 laced to a Shimano XT disc hub(32h) with DT Swiss straight guage Champion 2.0 spokes and brass nipples. It seems like people see these are being "bomb proof" without breaking the bank or being ridiculously heavy.
For strong spokes, straight gauge aren't the best choice. Sheldon Brown a good explanation of why:

Double-buttedspokes are thicker at the ends than in the middle. The most popular diameters are 2.0/1.8/2.0 mm (also known as 14/15 gauge) and 1.8/1.6/1.8 (15/16 gauge).
Double-butted spokes do more than save weight. The thick ends make them as strong in the highly-stressed areas as straight-gauge spokes of the same thickness, but the thinner middle sections make the spokes effectively more elastic. This allows them to stretch (temporarily) more than thicker spokes.

As a result, when the wheel is subjected to sharp localized stresses, the most heavily stressed spokes can elongate enough to shift some of the stress to adjoining spokes. This is particularly desirable when the limiting factor is how much stress the rim can withstand without cracking around the spoke hole.


However, the 2.0/1.8/2.0mm spokes have a problem in that the spoke head can move around in the hub. It's not a problem for lightweight people but for us big guys, moving the head around leads to spoke failure. A better solution is triple butted spokes. Again from Brown:

Triple-butted spokes, such as the DT Alpine III, are the best choice when durability and reliability is the primary aim, as with tandems and bicycles for loaded touring. They share the advantages of single-butted and double-butted spokes. The DT Alpine III, for instance, is 2.34 mm (13 gauge) at the head, 1.8 mm (15 gauge) in the middle, and 2.0 mm (14 gauge) at the threaded end.
Single- and triple-butted spokes solve one of the great problems of wheel design: Since spokes use rolled, not cut threads, the outside diameter of the threads is larger than the base diameter of the spoke wire. Since the holes in the hub flanges must be large enough to fit the threads through, the holes, in turn are larger than the wire requires. This is undesirable, because a tight match between the spoke diameter at the elbow and the diameter of the flange hole is crucial to resisting fatigue-related breakage.

Since single- and triple-butted spokes are thicker at the head end than at the thread end, they may be used with hubs that have holes just large enough to pass the thick wire at the head end.


I've been using these on my wheel builds for more then 5 years now. I have a mountain bike wheel with an XT hub, Alpine III spokes and Mavic rims that was the first wheel I built with the Alpines and it's been trouble free for more than 5 years. And they haven't been treated lightly. I pound my wheels and break them and spokes on a regular basis.

Alpines can be hard to find but they are worth the effort. I'd suggest an XT, XTR, or, if you really want coolness, King or Woods hubs, Alpine III and a Mavic XM719 rim (or similar from whoever you like) in the flavor that you need for your bike (disc or rim). I'd probably opt for a 36 hole wheel, if you can find the hub for it. The 26" wheel is a strong wheel by it size but can be made stronger with those 4 extra spokes.
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Old 07-22-07, 09:23 AM   #10
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No thoughts on the Aeros, cycco?
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Old 07-22-07, 09:28 AM   #11
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Quote:
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No thoughts on the Aeros, cycco?
I've never used them, mostly due to cost. Plus I find them rather ugly I can't really comment on them...other than to say they are uuuuggggly!
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Old 07-22-07, 09:40 AM   #12
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http://www.tagwheels.com/frx5.aspx
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Old 07-22-07, 12:52 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsInMyTeeth View Post
No thoughts on the Aeros, cycco?
There are plenty of riders who weight more than you and ride harder than you who have gotton away with using traditional, wire spoked wheelsets. If you truly value strength over weight and price, then stop suggesting your unpopular (with MTB anyways) aerospoke wheels and take a serious look at our suggestions. We're not just making this stuff up you know.

I am reminded of a member who once said, "The way I ride requires the most advanced, toughest wheelset's available."
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Old 07-22-07, 08:59 PM   #14
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not sure if anyone mentioned this above yet or not, but you could build a "dishless" wheel using either Hadley or I9 j-bend SS hubs using 4-5 cogs in the rear.

i would imagine that would help you strength wise.
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Old 07-22-07, 09:06 PM   #15
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Im bigger than the OP (6'3", 270). Cyccommute put it best. Ive got a Rhyno-lite rim, w/ DT Alpine III spokes.
Ill tell ya, that is one solid ass wheel.

Ill build ya wheel, hub of your choice, DT Alpine III's and Sun Rhyno Lite. Pretty much bombproof.

As far as the aerospoke wheels, remember, once its out of true, theres no truing it.
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Old 07-22-07, 09:19 PM   #16
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what is the inside width of the rhyno lite? and the Sun CR18 rim.

Any thoughts how they compare to Mavics for durability when used by clydesdales?
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Old 07-22-07, 09:26 PM   #17
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BugsInMyTeeth
When I started riding I was *slightly* under 400lbs and blew out my rear wheel(s) once every other week. I killed some 32 spoke Ditch witch wheels, a set of 36 spoke Rhynolites, and a 32 spoke mavic.
I called up Velocity (http://www.velocityusa.com/) and talked to a guy there named John Black (aparantly the owner). He hooked me up with a handbuilt 36 spoke Cliffhanger for the rear of my bike. I'm now down to 280lbs with almost 10,000 miles on that wheel and have just recently had to true it, it was barely out, maybe 1/16" of a wobble in a few places.
This is my experience.

I had a friend on these boards a few years ago who was well over 450lbs when he started riding. He went by the name PoweredbyTRD. He had a member on the boards build him a 36 spoke Velocity Deep-V wheelset for his Kona Hoss. The last I talked to him was a little over a year ago and his wheelset was still going strong. He not only commuted and did trail riding on his wheels like I did, but he had the balls to do some stair decents and other stuff that I would not have dared to do at our weight back then.
That was his experience.

So in my opinion, you can not go wrong with either of these wheels.
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Old 07-22-07, 10:09 PM   #18
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I have some 32h Deep V's on my MTB. I have not been terribly impressed with them. They constantly need truing.
I built them up to sell, but I always like to ride wheels before I sell them, and I would not feel right selling these to anyone. I heard great things about deep Vs so I was very excited about them, but ive been pretty disappointed
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Old 07-23-07, 03:23 PM   #19
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Thanks guys.. I really appreciate the input.


(still leaning towards the yuppy Aeros.. ) *ducks*
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Old 07-23-07, 03:55 PM   #20
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Thanks guys.. I really appreciate the input.


(still leaning towards the yuppy Aeros.. ) *ducks*
I don't know anything about mags for mtb's but I rode bmx for years on mags. Mags are weaker then spoked wheels and once you bend or break them they are trash. The hubs on them are also weaker usually. If mags for mtb's were the hot setup for strength all the dh and freeriders would be using them. Maybe if you are having issues with junk in your spokes you should just ride trails with less junk on them. Just listen to everyone when they give you suggestions. Also are the same people building all of your wheelsets? Maybe the builder just has no clue what they are doing. Speaking of freeriding maybe try some of those rims out? If they are built to take big drops then I'm sure they can handle your not so big 250 lbs. Sounds to me like your wheelbuilder either sucks or you are doing something wrong. Seems like other people your size do fine on the rims you've already tried.

EDIT: Do you keep an eye on your air pressure? Low air pressure will cause the tires to compress and make the rim itself take the hits rather then the tire acting as a cushion.
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Old 07-23-07, 04:26 PM   #21
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Yeah.. Im pissed with my LBS bigtime. The lead mechanic is a dick, and everytime I go in there, I feel like I need to defend myself. I hope he burns in a house fire.

Dont get me wrong.. I hear what you're all saying, and I appreciate the input. I don't think the mag wheel would be good for downhill, or anything big.. but I think it may suit may style of riding.

Ideally, I would buy a truing stand, buy a boatload of spokes, and learn how to fix my own wheels.

Hey.. if I spend the cash, and end up carrying my wheels out in my backpack.. I'll be sure to let you all know.

The less annoying LBS dude that sold me my current Rhynos (that I just broke 2 spokes on), told me he rides the same wheel like he rides his BMX. Very discouraging.

Thanks again guys.
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Old 07-23-07, 04:34 PM   #22
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If they are the ones that built your rims are you sure the dick is not trying to take advantage of you? Have you tried any other wheel builders? I don't know your exact situation but it sounds to me like something is wrong for you to be having issues with your rims especially since you don't even jump. Sounds like your wheel builder sucks or is trying to take advantage of you. If one guy is nice and one is a dick they may be using the old good guy bad guy trick on you to make some bucks. It's sad but not every local business is an honest one.

EDIT: If you only broke the spokes is the rim ok? If the spokes broke and not the rim then I don't understand why you need to switch rims? The spokes are what need changing not the rim. Do you know what kind of spokes he used to build it? Were they properly tensioned? You need to think about all of this before you just shell out more cash.

Last edited by iwantakona; 07-23-07 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 07-23-07, 05:25 PM   #23
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You could always have a tandem wheel built... maybe 48 spokes!!!
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Old 07-23-07, 08:05 PM   #24
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I'd go for a Hope hub/Mavic rim combo. Failing that, I'm a big bloke and Mavic Crossmax XL's are sweeeeet. Had mine two years and only had to tighten up the back end once after a few weeks of running in.
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Old 10-19-12, 06:16 AM   #25
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My 26 year old Arayas have never thrown a spoke (36 spokes, 26in can take up to 2.0in tyres) and I understand the spokes may be thicker than those produced today - the rims do not seem to show wear despite having to deal with long downhill breaking. Why did the industry stop building bomb proof, dishless (5 freewheel cog) wheels as a standard option? I read about high end tourers throwing spokes in the first year of use - was I lucky or is this a case of marketing advance without an engineering improvement?
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