Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Mountain Biking Mountain biking is one of the fastest growing sports in the world. Check out this forum to discuss the latest tips, tricks, gear and equipment in the world of mountain biking.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-14-07, 08:59 PM   #1
Bob Dopolina 
Mr. Dopolina
Thread Starter
 
Bob Dopolina's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Taiwan
Bikes: KUUPAS, Simpson VR
Posts: 9,968
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
29er's - Who is driving this trend?

This is a carry over from another thread that I hijacked with this discussion. To sum up:

I don't want to focus on whether the 29er is cool, or a good idea or on the ride of the bike. I am wondering who is driving this fad. Is it being driven by the marketing guys at the bike companies in the US or is it a consumer demand thing. I would really like to hear from shop staff about the end-user feedback they are getting on these bikes and all the products surrounding them.
Bob Dopolina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 09:28 PM   #2
cryptid01
one less horse
 
cryptid01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: East Jesus NY
Bikes: are better than yours
Posts: 5,600
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina View Post
I am wondering who is driving this fad.
willtsmith_nwi is.
cryptid01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 09:36 PM   #3
lukeC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What is thei 29er you speak of?

http://www.nsw.yachting.org.au/?Page=5346&MenuID=Youth%2F1060%2F3659%2CYouth_Class_Profiles%2F10423%2F4706

Quote:
The 29er is a true one design, high performance dinghy. The boat is exciting and great fun to sail. The class is the fastest growing in the world as young sailors choose it for the combination of high thrill sailing and truly equal boats and equipment. The 29er is recognised by ISAF as an International Class. With these credentials the 29er offers high class competition locally plus the opportunity for sailors to compete at World Championship level against fleets that are truly international. The 2002 World Championship on Sydney Harbour attracted a fleet of 103 baots from 5 Continents and 13 countries. Australia already had a fine record in the 29er, with the current open, youth male and youth female World Champions.
hmmm, I think i've got the wrong 29er
lukeC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 09:44 PM   #4
BenLi
Hardrocker
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 1,569
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina View Post
I am wondering who is driving this fad. Is it being driven by the marketing guys at the bike companies in the US or is it a consumer demand thing. I would really like to hear from shop staff about the end-user feedback they are getting on these bikes and all the products surrounding them.
Well, if it is in fact, simply a fad.

I think it is as much the industry as it is the consumer demand. They have to come up with a new gimmick once in a while to keep the customers spending money right? Forks, disc brakes, rear suspension, etc. all came about this way. Any actually performance advantages is a secondary side affect
BenLi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 09:45 PM   #5
ghettocruiser
Former Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: dropmachine.com
Bikes:
Posts: 4,062
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A secret bid by a splinter group of cyclocross riders to get you all on cross bikes.


The next "innovations" we feed you will be drop bars and skinnier tires.
ghettocruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 09:48 PM   #6
fifthcircle
Huge Memeber
 
fifthcircle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: O-Town, NE
Bikes: Gary Fisher Cobia, Lemond Buenos Aires
Posts: 231
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am not a bike shop guy, but I do have a 29er.

I was looking for a new MTB and tried the GF Cobia. I liked it and decided that it would be fun to have something different and new. So here I am a year later and I don't regret the decision. I think it is just the newest thing, and some people LOVE them, others don't care. If you have people liking them and buying them, then there is your driving force. Demand is there because of the "buzz" about the different way they ride, and people naturally want to try it out. Kinda like Full suspension, many years back. You know there are still people out there that don't like full suspension, or any suspension. That is why there are hardtails and rigid forks still being made and bought.

-Kurt
fifthcircle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 09:55 PM   #7
croscoe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 562
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ride a 29er... You'll like it. 29" > 26". 29er big, yeah yeah yeah. It's not small, no no no. Gabba gabba-hey. I'm such a purist, I still ride one of these:



Seriously. I don't think it's a fad, just another option. A damn fine one at that IMO.
croscoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 10:08 PM   #8
Bob Dopolina 
Mr. Dopolina
Thread Starter
 
Bob Dopolina's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Taiwan
Bikes: KUUPAS, Simpson VR
Posts: 9,968
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenLi View Post
Well, if it is in fact, simply a fad.

I think it is as much the industry as it is the consumer demand. They have to come up with a new gimmick once in a while to keep the customers spending money right? Forks, disc brakes, rear suspension, etc. all came about this way. Any actually performance advantages is a secondary side affect
The problem with this is that there are only a few bike companies that are pushing this. Tire makers don't want to make a separate designation for the same 700c (622) tires. I'm sure dealers don't want to have to stock even more tires just because it says 29 inch on the side. Component makers are being forced to come up with products that will differenciate the 29er from a 26"MTB. Based on the fact that 29er sales are minute in the grand scheme of bike sales yet these companies are being forced to to risks in a flat MTB market, who is benefiting?

As to whether it is a fad or not, if sales don't pick up significantly, if they don't become totally mainstream, they will be left to the niche market frame builders.

I would like to hear from some industry folks about their experience on the sales floor.
Bob Dopolina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 10:44 PM   #9
Little Leo
SwampFox
 
Little Leo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Green Bay WI
Bikes: Diamonback Sorrento, Gary Fisher Cobia
Posts: 762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am driving the fad
Little Leo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-07, 11:09 PM   #10
Wordbiker
Pwnerer
 
Wordbiker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Pagosa Springs, CO, USA
Bikes: Road, MTB, Cruiser, Chopper, BMX
Posts: 2,907
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Our shop is in a rural area, so folks around here don't buy as much for fashion as for function. We don't have hipsters that other people try to emulate, so things like fixies, singlespeeds, cross bikes and 29ers are a pretty rare request...other than from the urban tourists that just can't believe we didn't drink the kool-aid and stock the store with the exact parts they wanted to buy on clearance. Yes, we do have several customers riding 29ers, as does the shop owner, and so did I...until I found I didn't care for my Supercaliber (flexy noodle) and sold it to another lighter guy that just loves it.

Of the very few 29ers we've sold out of the shop, the majority were due to ride quality, not by magazine-driven hype, not by peer pressure, not by racing results...just the customer's impression after riding one. For a niche few, the big hoops are a solution to either their real or perceived needs...and who are we to say they're wrong?

As a tallish guy, I happen to be one of those riders. As soon as I can afford another mountain bike, it'll be a 29er. Right now I'm just waiting to see what the new Specialized bikes will ride like. If I like what I see, it may very well be my own enthusiasm driving the 29er "fad"...at least locally.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahsposo View Post
Ski, bike and wish I was gay.
Wordbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-07, 04:00 AM   #11
wroomwroomoops
Sir Fallalot
 
wroomwroomoops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Bikes:
Posts: 5,275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It's not a fad. I feel much more comfortable and stable on a 29er. So much so, that I am in the process of getting rid of my 26" bikes. Well, I'll keep one or two (heavily customized singlespeeds).

No changes to any of the 26" MTN bikes had yielded such a dramatic improvement in ride quality, as going to a 29er. I hope the trend grows and the choice of fat 700c tires increases. 622-60 ain't enough for me, the fatter the better.
wroomwroomoops is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-07, 06:51 AM   #12
C Law
Too Much Crazy
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NY
Bikes: A bunch
Posts: 3,636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina View Post
This is a carry over from another thread that I hijacked with this discussion. To sum up:
I don't want to focus on whether the 29er is cool, or a good idea or on the ride of the bike. I am wondering who is driving this fad. Is it being driven by the marketing guys at the bike companies in the US or is it a consumer demand thing. I would really like to hear from shop staff about the end-user feedback they are getting on these bikes and all the products surrounding them.
Thats too bad, because it is the crux of the issue.
C Law is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-07, 07:24 AM   #13
DMF 
Elitist Troglodyte
 
DMF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas
Bikes: 03 Raleigh Professional (steel)
Posts: 6,924
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Seems to me that one big advantage of the 26" is lower center-of-mass.

Yes/no?
__________________
Stupidity got us into this mess - why can't it get us out?

- Will Rogers
DMF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-07, 07:28 AM   #14
fifthcircle
Huge Memeber
 
fifthcircle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: O-Town, NE
Bikes: Gary Fisher Cobia, Lemond Buenos Aires
Posts: 231
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina View Post
I'm sure dealers don't want to have to stock even more tires just because it says 29 inch on the side.

Component makers are being forced to come up with products that will differenciate the 29er from a 26"MTB.
But they are willing to stock a bunch of road/bmx/kids/hybrid/cross/26"mtb/recumbent tires????

What components are sooooo different? The wheels/tires and forks are about the only really big changes. Of course the frame is different, but big deal. There are hundreds of different 26" frames out there, why not some new bigger wheeled versions.



I am sure people had this discussion about MTB's in general when they first came on the scene.... "why are all the bike path riding yuppies buying mtb's?" "why do you need a mtb? you live in town."

-Kurt
fifthcircle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-07, 07:30 AM   #15
BearSquirrel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 511
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina View Post
The problem with this is that there are only a few bike companies that are pushing this.
Depends what you mean by pushing. If you mean actively promoting it and trying to get people to switch, you're probably talking about Gary Fisher, WTB, Niner and a handful of small frame builders.

If you're talking about peddling (no pun intended), you're talking about pretty much everybody.
[quote]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina View Post

Tire makers don't want to make a separate designation for the same 700c (622) tires. I'm sure dealers don't want to have to stock even more tires just because it says 29 inch on the side.
The do quite readily. It means more sales.

Quote:
Component makers are being forced to come up with products that will differenciate the 29er from a 26"MTB. Based on the fact that 29er sales are minute in the grand scheme of bike sales yet these companies are being forced to to risks in a flat MTB market, who is benefiting?
Exactly WHO is forcing a component manufacturer to do anything. Is there some law I'm unaware of that compels a tire maker to make 29er tires? BTW, the "special" components in question are: rims, forks, tubes and tires. That's it!!!!

I don't think this is a fad. Fads come in fast and go out fast. 29ers have been a steadily growing movement for quite some time. It has gotten to the point where it's easier to talk about the companies that are NOT making 29ers then the companies that do.

Quote:
,
As to whether it is a fad or not, if sales don't pick up significantly, if they don't become totally mainstream, they will be left to the niche market frame builders.

I would like to hear from some industry folks about their experience on the sales floor.
When short travel suspension frames became efficient, the performance hardtail became extinct. This left a price-point whole on the sales floor. I think that manufacturers have realized that an "exotic" 29er bike can effectively fill that whole. The reason that stock 29ers are expensive is NOT inherent to the size of the wheels. They are expensive because manufacturers put higher end components on then and deliberately market them as "premium" items (rightfully so in my opinion).

The other genre that the 29er has filled is the "back to basics" singlespeed. The larger wheels allow one to roll on rougher train without suspension. A 29er singlespeed is relatively cheap and makes a great addition to the "stable".

Given that the 29er models just keep increasing, I think you can officially put a fork in this "fad" argument. They're here to stay and if you ask me they're likely to eventually take over the XC market as quality bike companies are eager to distinguish themselves from the crap sold at Wal-Mart. A different wheel standard is an ideal way.

29ers are now starting to creep their way into Downhill. I believe once some higher spoke count wheelset are available there, you'll see 29ers take over Downhill as well.
BearSquirrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-07, 07:38 AM   #16
shiggy
On-One/Titus USA
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: PDX
Bikes: Lots +1
Posts: 146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina View Post
This is a carry over from another thread that I hijacked with this discussion. To sum up:

I don't want to focus on whether the 29er is cool, or a good idea or on the ride of the bike. I am wondering who is driving this fad. Is it being driven by the marketing guys at the bike companies in the US or is it a consumer demand thing. I would really like to hear from shop staff about the end-user feedback they are getting on these bikes and all the products surrounding them.
Not a fad and the 29er trend is being driven by hard-core riders/users. They have been around (with "The Tire") for ~8 years, longer with narrower tires. Have gone mainstream in the last 2-3 years.
shiggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-07, 07:38 AM   #17
well biked 
biked well
 
well biked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 7,088
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF View Post
Seems to me that one big advantage of the 26" is lower center-of-mass.

Yes/no?
The Fisher frames, anyway, keep the same approx. bb height as a typical 26er, so they're designed to keep the rider's weight, relative to the axles, as low as possible. Fisher's also use long top tubes/short stems to keep the rider weight behind the front axle as much as possible. The result is a more stable bike than a typical 26" XC mountain bike.
well biked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-07, 11:28 AM   #18
JonathanGennick 
Senior Member
 
JonathanGennick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Munising, Michigan, USA
Bikes: Gary Fisher Hodgepodge 26er Rigid
Posts: 2,503
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Look at the road bike market where people have been riding 700mm tires forever and a day now. There is no movement in the road-bike market to go to a smaller diameter tire. People riding long distances (e.g. on roads) over relatively even ground (roads again) have clearly settled upon the larger tire size. That's true in the road-bike market; I believe the same will happen in in the cross-country, mountain-bike market. What's good for the road rider is good for the trail rider. Freeride and downhill I'm not so sure of yet, but I truly believe that the larger tire size will eventually dominate in the cross-country market.

26-inch tires will probably never go away, because of the need to accommodate smaller riders, teenagers, kids, etc. Years ago, when I was a kid, bikes were sized solely by their tire size. You moved up from 12 to 16 to 24 to 26 inch tires as you grew. Then we got into making different frame sizes for different size people. We'll still need different frame sizes, but I foresee a day when people worry about getting the correct combination of frame size and tire size. 29ers will dominate. 26ers will hopefully get a bit more attention than 24ers do today.

Perhaps you could argue that we really need a rim size for mountain bikes that gets us to the same 700mm tire size that road riders. I don't see that happening though, not in a big way. The 29 inch size has become ensconced, and there's too much efficiency to be had from usig one size rim in all cases. So my prediction remains that 29ers will come to dominate the cross country mountain bike market.
JonathanGennick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-07, 11:37 AM   #19
never
Custom User
 
never's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: T0L0K0
Bikes:
Posts: 3,739
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanGennick View Post
Perhaps you could argue that we really need a rim size for mountain bikes that gets us to the same 700mm tire size that road riders. I don't see that happening though, not in a big way. The 29 inch size has become ensconced, and there's too much efficiency to be had from usig one size rim in all cases. So my prediction remains that 29ers will come to dominate the cross country mountain bike market.
29er rims ARE the same size as 700 rims.

And I think you're on crack to make such a prediction...but what do I care...cross country is gay and I ride all mountain
never is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-07, 12:08 PM   #20
born2bahick
Official Website Waterboy
 
born2bahick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Bikes: a lot
Posts: 3,271
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanGennick View Post
. What's good for the road rider is good for the trail rider. Freeride and downhill I'm not so sure of yet, but I truly believe that the larger tire size will eventually dominate in the cross-country market.
Awesome!
born2bahick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-07, 12:18 PM   #21
GV27
Light Makes Right
 
GV27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Green Mountain, Colorado
Bikes: Gianni Motta Criterium, Dean Hardtail
Posts: 1,521
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
A 700c road tire and a 26" mountain tire are pretty close to the same outside diameter. I've always been under the impression that that's why they went for that size in the first place (don't quote me on that - just always seemed logical). A road tire is something in the neighborhood of 31" OD, while a 29" mountain bike tire is what......33" or 34" OD?
GV27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-07, 12:28 PM   #22
dminor 
Moar cowbell
 
dminor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: The 509
Bikes: are awesome.
Posts: 12,427
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Myself, I see more value in the 69er-like approach, at least for DH . . . except I am more intrigued with a 650B front now:

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/articl...tb-tires-11794
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Twain
"Don't argue with stupid people; they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
dminor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-07, 12:29 PM   #23
C Law
Too Much Crazy
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NY
Bikes: A bunch
Posts: 3,636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Diameters;

'road tire' 700x23 = 26.6''

26'' x2.25 mountain tire = 26.3'' (hence the term 26'')

29'' x 2.3 mountain tire = 29.5 (hence the term 29er)
C Law is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-07, 12:35 PM   #24
wroomwroomoops
Sir Fallalot
 
wroomwroomoops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Bikes:
Posts: 5,275
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF View Post
Seems to me that one big advantage of the 26" is lower center-of-mass.

Yes/no?
Perhaps. But what I see as an advantage of 26" wheels is they are much stronger than 700c.
wroomwroomoops is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-07, 12:52 PM   #25
C Law
Too Much Crazy
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NY
Bikes: A bunch
Posts: 3,636
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GV27 View Post
Try that again - 26 x 2.25 means the tire is 2.25 inches wide and fits on a 26" diameter rim. Assuming the tire is roughly circular in cross section, that means it is roughly 2.25" tall. Take that times 2, since it sticks out on both sides, so 26 + 2.25 + 2.25 = 30.5". Doing the same for 29 x 2.3 = 29 + 2.3 + 2.3 = 33.6"

A typical road bike tire is something a bit less that 1" wide (like 21mm or 23mm) but being charitable 29 + 1 + 1 = 31"
yo b1tch! don't dis my maths'

A traditional mountain bike rim diameter isn't 26'' you dumbass. the tire is. the rim is 559mm (22'') diameter

same thing with a 29er. The rim is 622mm (24.5'') diameter.

Go Here and then come back and have an informed discussion if you will.

Otherwise, please stop typing incorrect information

edit: I see you deleted your post. Luckily I had already snipped it.

Last edited by C Law; 08-15-07 at 01:12 PM.
C Law is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:13 PM.