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  1. #1
    Part of the furniture math2p14's Avatar
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    Race Face 2004 New Cranks.INFO READ!!!

    Hi all. After all the speculations and questions for the new raceface 2004 products i got all the answers that you need directly from Raceface.

    Raceface Diabolus Cranks: About the same price with NorthShore cranks combined with a Signature series BB. These new cranks are for DH/FR and they come in a special splined system that fits ONLY the new Raceface diabolus BB that has the bearings placed outside the frame (ala XTR).

    Raceface Deus XC cranks : Same price with the Turbine LP + Signature XS bb. Again as in the diabolus case, these are ONLY compatible with the new Deus bb with externally placed bearings.

    Availability of these cranks : Feb/March 2004. Again note that they are incompatible with ISIS bottom brackets.

    Evolve XC/DH cranks : Replacement for the prodigy series with revised aesthetics. same performance same price. Availability Oct 2003.

    Yannis
    Where the skid marks stop...the tree begins....:D:D:D:D:D

  2. #2
    Wood Licker Maelstrom's Avatar
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    Sounds great...I want the diablous but I definately don't need that kind of crank ...thats a lot of beef

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    Part of the furniture math2p14's Avatar
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    400$+ Is pretty steep for something new and untested . Anyhow. Deus XC will be an Anti-XTR solution with the same price , Diabolus will be an Anti-Saint solution again with the same if not higher price.
    Where the skid marks stop...the tree begins....:D:D:D:D:D

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    DEADBEEF khuon's Avatar
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    Do you know if the Deus cranks will completely replace the Turbine cranks? Will the Next cranks carry on? Will the Diabolus and Deus BB interface be compatible with one another? Will the interface design(s) become an open-spec like ISIS or be licensed out to other manufacturers? Is the new interface design(s) a reflection on problems found in the failures of some ISIS BBs?
    1999 K2 OzM 2001 Aegis Aro Svelte OCP Club Member
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  5. #5
    Part of the furniture math2p14's Avatar
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    This New ISIS type system seems to be a solution for bearing problems on current ISIS stuff. Turbines i think will stay in production as well as all the existing models. Only prodigy will be replaced by the evolve series. I really dont know if Deus is interchangeable with Diablo or if the system is licenced. So far i know that its an exclusive Raceface spline system.
    Where the skid marks stop...the tree begins....:D:D:D:D:D

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    Turbines still live.

    Deus is not expensive, i just pre-ordered some and they cost roughly half of XTR (comes with rings, bb, arms).

    The Deus BB is compatible with XTR cranks.

  7. #7
    Part of the furniture math2p14's Avatar
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    Hey ngrover, where did you pre-ordered the Deus from? got any prices for the Deus/Atlas/Diabolus? Any specs? Please post any addresses.
    Where the skid marks stop...the tree begins....:D:D:D:D:D

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    Don't know exactly how much the rest of the lineup is....just that my local shop was please to find out how relatively inexpensive they are. The shop placed the pre-order and is located in Manitoba Canada. I don't see why any RaceFace dealer can't do the same.

    all i have is photos from the net. i have seen the new catalog but of course it's at the shop ant they got it from a bike show in Montreal so I can't recite it to you:
    http://www.speedgoat.com/vegas/IB04.asp?item=51
    http://www.speedgoat.com/vegas/IB04.asp?item=52

    and the best link is this one (prices in euro's):
    http://www.bikeaction.de/raceface/innenlager/xtype.html
    use the drop down menu to select which raceface product you want to find specs on.

    I ordered mine in 180mm and price included rings, x-type bb, and arms.

  9. #9
    bac
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    Quote Originally Posted by math2p14
    These new cranks are for DH/FR and they come in a special splined system that fits ONLY the new Raceface diabolus BB that has the bearings placed outside the frame (ala XTR).
    Where are the people who bash Shimano for making proprietary stuff? Is this not the same deal?

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    like i said, the deus bb works with xtr cranks. i THINK the deus and diabolus bb's are interchangable so that would mean that the diabolus bb SHOULD work with XTR.

    shimano put a patent on their bottom bracket because they didn't want anyone to make compatible parts. RaceFace got around shimano's patent by having the non-drive arm fixed to the bb axle instead of the drive side like shimano did. so raceface has made the effort to make compatible parts, not shimano.

    by fixing the bb axle to the non-drive side crank arm, raceface acutally has an advantage over xtr. with xtr, because the bb axle is fixed to the drive side, if anything goes wrong with the drive arm or bb axle then the unit as a whole is much more expensive to replace than if the axle is fixed to the non-drive side. This is how raceface explained it to my local shop mechanics when they went to the bike show in Montreal. other than that, they are the same. the axles are the same diameter and length and so the bottom bracket cups with their outboard bearings are totally compatible with xtr.
    Last edited by ngrover; 11-07-03 at 02:15 PM.

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    bac
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngrover
    like i said, the deus bb works with xtr cranks. i THINK the deus and diabolus bb's are interchangable so that would mean that the diabolus bb SHOULD work with XTR.

    shimano put a patent on their bottom bracket because they didn't want anyone to make compatible parts. RaceFace got around shimano's patent by having the non-drive arm fixed to the bb axle instead of the drive side like shimano did. so raceface has made the effort to make compatible parts, not shimano.

    by fixing the bb axle to the non-drive side crank arm, raceface acutally has an advantage over xtr. with xtr, because the bb axle is fixed to the drive side, if anything goes wrong with the drive arm or bb axle then the unit as a whole is much more expensive to replace than if the axle is fixed to the non-drive side. This is how raceface explained it to my local shop mechanics when they went to the bike show in Montreal. other than that, they are the same. the axles are the same diameter and length and so the bottom bracket cups with their outboard bearings are totally compatible with xtr.
    Wow - good information! ThanX!!!

  12. #12
    Part of the furniture math2p14's Avatar
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    Thanks man...awesome piece of info i really appreciate.
    Where the skid marks stop...the tree begins....:D:D:D:D:D

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    no problem.

    i just noticed on the German site i posted that is says: "Einbaunorm wie Shimano XTR und XT-Lagersysteme." (for the deus and diabolus bb). If my guess is correct, this would confirm that both bb's are compatible with the new shimano system.

    check it out: http://www.bikeaction.de/raceface/innenlager/xtype.html

  14. #14
    Part of the furniture math2p14's Avatar
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    They are indeed compatible with the new XTR/XT/Saint. The prices dont look that bad imho. The Atlas costs the same as the msrp of a Turbine LP with rings, but you get the bonus of a free bb
    Where the skid marks stop...the tree begins....:D:D:D:D:D

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    so what are the advantages of having the bearings external in the new Raceface/Shimano BBs?

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    Larger bearings, longer life.

    I wonder how long it will take before the problem REALLY gets solved and somones comes up with a bigger bb shell for frames. Something about the size of the EBB shell would solve all of this external bearing kerfuffle.

  17. #17
    Part of the furniture math2p14's Avatar
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    new bb shell means new frames...and the idea sucks big time in my opinion
    Where the skid marks stop...the tree begins....:D:D:D:D:D

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    Quote Originally Posted by math2p14
    new bb shell means new frames
    Well, yes. That's fairly obvious

    ...and the idea sucks big time in my opinion
    I'd like to hear more about this.

    Don't get me wrong. When I was at interbike, I drooled over these with everyone else:





    But it all seems to fly in the face of the K.I.S.S. principle.

  19. #19
    Part of the furniture math2p14's Avatar
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    K.I.S.S. principle? can you explain?
    Where the skid marks stop...the tree begins....:D:D:D:D:D

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    Keep It Simple, Stupid. (Mind, that not aimed at you)

    A mantra of engineers.

    For example; this violates the K.I.S.S. principle:


  21. #21
    Part of the furniture math2p14's Avatar
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    I perfectly agree with you. In general i believe that companies dont bother to refine and develop current systems and they prefer to invent or "invent" a new one replacing the older system. In most cases the new system is more complex and is only produced to give innovation credit to the company and ofcourse to justify a price increase. An ISIS bottom bracket with the quality of Hope or CK or Hadley or PhilWoods would in my opinion outperform and outlast the new XTR/Raceface thingy....but obviously both shimano and raceface decided to ditch octalink and isis in favor of the new external thing. I dont really care since i havent invested in isis...i am still using a crap taper crank. I dislike the idea of new standards popping out every 2-3years and i strongly dislike the idea of having standards that render your equipment unusable (for example a new bb-shell size standard or the 1.5 std).
    Where the skid marks stop...the tree begins....:D:D:D:D:D

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngrover
    like i said, the deus bb works with xtr cranks. i THINK the deus and diabolus bb's are interchangable so that would mean that the diabolus bb SHOULD work with XTR.
    Yes it does in fact mean they are compatible

    shimano put a patent on their bottom bracket because they didn't want anyone to make compatible parts. RaceFace got around shimano's patent by having the non-drive arm fixed to the bb axle instead of the drive side like shimano did. so raceface has made the effort to make compatible parts, not shimano
    by fixing the bb axle to the non-drive side crank arm, raceface acutally has an advantage over xtr. with xtr, because the bb axle is fixed to the drive side, if anything goes wrong with the drive arm or bb axle then the unit as a whole is much more expensive to replace than if the axle is fixed to the non-drive side. This is how raceface explained it to my local shop mechanics when they went to the bike show in Montreal. other than that, they are the same. the axles are the same diameter and length and so the bottom bracket cups with their outboard bearings are totally compatible with xtr.
    Shimano did not patent their BB, they patented the layout of which external bearings forms part. The Race FAce layout is not superior not is the XTR superior to the Raceface. Once the system is fitted and tightened they should be equally stiff and strong. If anything goes wrong with the XTR crank on the drive side it's not significantlymore expensive to replace. Either way if I had such a significant failure inmy crankset I'd be asking Shimano for a warranty replacement!

    I recieved a reply from Raceface wrt to their cranks. They've really wound up the marketing claim game almost to science fiction. They even claim 7000 series aluminium they use for their BB cups to be stronger than the 2014 aluminium used by Shimano which is complete nonsense. For the type of loading the external BB cups experience, the 2014 alloy is the better one.
    They lso claim that the longer thread length makes their B cups sronger which is also complete rubbish because the Shimano cups are made from a stronger alloy so don't have to be as long, saving weight.

    Of the two cranks neither is better than the other. They're jut similar solutions to the same problem
    An ounce off the wheels is worth 3 off the frame

  23. #23
    Part of the furniture math2p14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimB
    Yes it does in fact mean they are compatible



    Shimano did not patent their BB, they patented the layout of which external bearings forms part. The Race FAce layout is not superior not is the XTR superior to the Raceface. Once the system is fitted and tightened they should be equally stiff and strong. If anything goes wrong with the XTR crank on the drive side it's not significantlymore expensive to replace. Either way if I had such a significant failure inmy crankset I'd be asking Shimano for a warranty replacement!

    I recieved a reply from Raceface wrt to their cranks. They've really wound up the marketing claim game almost to science fiction. They even claim 7000 series aluminium they use for their BB cups to be stronger than the 2014 aluminium used by Shimano which is complete nonsense. For the type of loading the external BB cups experience, the 2014 alloy is the better one.
    They lso claim that the longer thread length makes their B cups sronger which is also complete rubbish because the Shimano cups are made from a stronger alloy so don't have to be as long, saving weight.

    Of the two cranks neither is better than the other. They're jut similar solutions to the same problem
    Did you contact the strange guys at silverfish Tim? If yes i would be very much interested to listed to your opinion.
    Where the skid marks stop...the tree begins....:D:D:D:D:D

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    silverfish??? who are they?
    No i contacted the raceface factory itself.
    An ounce off the wheels is worth 3 off the frame

  25. #25
    Part of the furniture math2p14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimB
    silverfish??? who are they?
    No i contacted the raceface factory itself.
    I thought you lived in the UK...
    Where the skid marks stop...the tree begins....:D:D:D:D:D

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